Free Speech, Hate Speech and...

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

Trump talks tough, says he knows more about the military than anybody, criticized the military when he wasn't in office, makes stupidly bold claims and denigrates actual war heroes like McCain. Yet when he was presented with a chance to back it up, and I think we can all pretty much guess Trump's personality isn't much different than it was, he chickened out. 

You seem to have it backward.  Why embellish the truth?  He got out of serving before he talked tough correct?  So how could he "back it up" if he hadn't even talked about it yet?  

[red viking]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

You seem to have it backward.  Why embellish the truth?  He got out of serving before he talked tough correct?  So how could he "back it up" if he hadn't even talked about it yet?  

He's a chicken hawk coward

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Obama's excuse was he was 12 when the draft ended. Maybe don't skip the google next time. 

Obama didn’t write the draft board asking to be saved from the draft or get 17 boxes of deferments or max out his super white guy privilege either.  
 

But he also didn’t serve.    You are correct.   He did make up some political story that he would have had he had the chance though if I remember correctly. 

[Paul158]

7 minutes ago, red viking said:

He's a chicken hawk coward

No one should have gone to Vietnam. Losing well over a half million Americans for what reason? Worst mistake in American history.

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

My mom's husband was in Vietnam. He passed away several years ago, due to cancer from something he was around over there. He had some violent dreams where he'd sometimes wake up and think he was still there. We never knew exactly what he did there. He always said he was a clerk, but sometimes he would tell these very vivid stories about his experience, I think maybe he just didn't want my mom to know, so I always figured he had done some pretty bad things over there. He just never told me what he really was doing. And I know he was disillusioned with war after being there. 

He also hated Trump with a passion. His reason is pretty much the same as mine. Trump talks tough, says he knows more about the military than anybody, criticized the military when he wasn't in office, makes stupidly bold claims and denigrates actual war heroes like McCain. Yet when he was presented with a chance to back it up, and I think we can all pretty much guess Trump's personality isn't much different than it was, he chickened out. McCain served and he could have avoided it. If Biden had said the same things, or even Clinton, the right wouldn't have let them hear the end of it. 

Yet Trump acts like he's a tough guy when he is just a coward. 

War is "hell". War is "hell". War should be avoided at all costs. President Reagan had it right. Peace through strength.

[Wrestleknownothing]

20 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Obama didn’t write the draft board asking to be saved from the draft or get 17 boxes of deferments or max out his super white guy privilege either.  
 

But he also didn’t serve.    You are correct.   He did make up some political story that he would have had he had the chance though if I remember correctly. 

This is a new level of dumb. He was 12. 

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

My mom's husband was in Vietnam. He passed away several years ago, due to cancer from something he was around over there. He had some violent dreams where he'd sometimes wake up and think he was still there. We never knew exactly what he did there. He always said he was a clerk, but sometimes he would tell these very vivid stories about his experience, I think maybe he just didn't want my mom to know, so I always figured he had done some pretty bad things over there. He just never told me what he really was doing. And I know he was disillusioned with war after being there. 

He also hated Trump with a passion. His reason is pretty much the same as mine. Trump talks tough, says he knows more about the military than anybody, criticized the military when he wasn't in office, makes stupidly bold claims and denigrates actual war heroes like McCain. Yet when he was presented with a chance to back it up, and I think we can all pretty much guess Trump's personality isn't much different than it was, he chickened out. McCain served and he could have avoided it. If Biden had said the same things, or even Clinton, the right wouldn't have let them hear the end of it. 

Yet Trump acts like he's a tough guy when he is just a coward. 

if he was in Vietnam there is a good chance he was exposed to agent orange at some point. That chemical was so toxic. How they ever approved that chemical to be sprayed all around are men is unbelievable. It was used to kill the thick underbrush, but it also killed are soldiers. 

[Caveira]

12 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Obama didn’t write the draft board

Are you bad at sarcasm or reading?   Re read the first few words maybe the point is there somewhere 

[Caveira]

19 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

if he was in Vietnam there is a good chance he was exposed to agent orange at some point. That chemical was so toxic. How they ever approved that chemical to be sprayed all around are men is unbelievable. It was used to kill the thick underbrush, but it also killed are soldiers. 

My father did two tours in Vietnam.  The second one during the tet offensive… he was a door gunner in Huey gunships.   
 

I could not believe when he told me when I was a kid they just had to line up and get sprayed with agent orange over there.  Not near them…. Directly on them.  Crazy?   He has long term health issues and so do some of his grandchildren as I guess it skips a generation.  

Edited 18 hours ago by Caveira

[Wrestleknownothing]

42 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Are you bad at sarcasm or reading?   Re read the first few words maybe the point is there somewhere 

Neither. You are bad at making good points.

He was 12.

[Caveira]

Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

Neither. You are bad at making good points.

He was 12.

Did he write the draft board to beg to get out of the draf When he was 12 or did someone else ?  Did he get more deferments than you have fingers and toes?  Fact.  I don’t know how many fingers and toes you have but solid maybe he did. 

[Paul158]

21 minutes ago, Caveira said:

My father did two tours in Vietnam.  The second one during the tet offensive… he was a door gunner in Huey gunships.   
 

I could not believe when he told me when I was a kid they just had to line up and get sprayed with agent orange over there.  Not near them…. Directly on them.  Crazy?   He has long term health issues and so do some of his grandchildren as I guess it skips a generation.  

They knew in the early 1950's this was some really nasty toxic stuff. The powers that be ignored the warnings, however. Back in 1990 I worked at Admiral Zumwalt's new home. I was unaware at the time he was the Commander of the U.S. Naval forces from 1968 to1970 in Vietnam. He ordered the increased use of agent orange to help along the rivers. He son was of those on the patrol boats. His son would die from the exposure to Agent orange. It also has affected his grandchildren.

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

They knew in the early 1950's this was some really nasty toxic stuff. The powers that be ignored the warnings, however. Back in 1990 I worked at Admiral Zumwalt's new home. I was unaware at the time he was the Commander of the U.S. Naval forces from 1968 to1970 in Vietnam. He ordered the increased use of agent orange to help along the rivers. He son was of those on the patrol boats. His son would die from the exposure to Agent orange. It also has affected his grandchildren.

Damn that sucks.   

[Tripnsweep]

1 hour ago, Paul158 said:

if he was in Vietnam there is a good chance he was exposed to agent orange at some point. That chemical was so toxic. How they ever approved that chemical to be sprayed all around are men is unbelievable. It was used to kill the thick underbrush, but it also killed are soldiers. 

He wouldn't talk about it really. I assume that's what it was. He died of bladder cancer after the VA denied he had cancer for several years. Then when they decided he in fact had cancer, he was given a year to live and it was too late to do anything. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

29 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Did he write the draft board to beg to get out of the draf When he was 12 or did someone else ?  Did he get more deferments than you have fingers and toes?  Fact.  I don’t know how many fingers and toes you have but solid maybe he did. 

How do you function not knowing 12 is less than 18?

He was 12.

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

How do you function not knowing 12 is less than 18?

He was 12.

Maybe it was the other guy boss.  

[Paul158]

7 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

He wouldn't talk about it really. I assume that's what it was. He died of bladder cancer after the VA denied he had cancer for several years. Then when they decided he in fact had cancer, he was given a year to live and it was too late to do anything. 

Sorry to hear that. Most vets had a real tough time getting the proper medical they needed. Then once they finally got it, it was too late. Pretty sad the government treats the vets so poorly.

[ionel]

39 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

He wouldn't talk about it really. I assume that's what it was. He died of bladder cancer after the VA denied he had cancer for several years. Then when they decided he in fact had cancer, he was given a year to live and it was too late to do anything. 

 

26 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Sorry to hear that. Most vets had a real tough time getting the proper medical they needed. Then once they finally got it, it was too late. Pretty sad the government treats the vets so poorly.

Sometimes we suck at doing the right thing. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

 

Sometimes we suck at doing the right thing. 

Likely because we work so hard to argue against others of us who are also trying to do the right thing.

We all cool.

If we could only wake up and realize the only real enemies are Russia, Iran, and (very soon) China.

Throw all politics aside on the world stage. We've got our hands full at this point, and unity would be a good thing.

[Tripnsweep]

1 hour ago, Paul158 said:

Sorry to hear that. Most vets had a real tough time getting the proper medical they needed. Then once they finally got it, it was too late. Pretty sad the government treats the vets so poorly.

In some ways the VA was great but in a lot of ways they were just awful. They denied my mom his VA benefits on a technicality, and it was ridiculous. I remember driving him to the VA hospital a few times and they treated him pretty well. Just the admin and people who make the decisions are awful. I know my mom wanted to sue them because she had documents proving the VA knew he had cancer but did nothing. A friend of hers who was a lawyer said it would be like pissing into the wind if she tried it. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Trump doubling down on his attacks of the First Amendment:

"When 97 percent of the stories are bad about a person, it’s no longer free speech"

He might benefit from actually reading what he signed. 

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Trump doubling down on his attacks of the First Amendment:

"When 97 percent of the stories are bad about a person, it’s no longer free speech"

He might benefit from actually reading what he signed. 

Hope he didn’t use an autopen 

[Tripnsweep]

Just more "improvement" of free speech right? 

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/20/g-s1-89713/pentagon-new-strict-guidelines-for-media?fbclid=IwVERDUAM7waFleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHiPr5gv3D6Hj6sDmm3U_TZxZ5A9kqYSmwHGKquK94OgKk9MmbtDeQX8iMu2J_aem_MgltoRwTemv0f_7V2AtZmA

 

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

Just more "improvement" of free speech right? 

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/20/g-s1-89713/pentagon-new-strict-guidelines-for-media?fbclid=IwVERDUAM7waFleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHiPr5gv3D6Hj6sDmm3U_TZxZ5A9kqYSmwHGKquK94OgKk9MmbtDeQX8iMu2J_aem_MgltoRwTemv0f_7V2AtZmA

 

What’s bad about it.  You didn’t make a point 

[Caveira]

2 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

Just more "improvement" of free speech right? 

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/20/g-s1-89713/pentagon-new-strict-guidelines-for-media?fbclid=IwVERDUAM7waFleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHiPr5gv3D6Hj6sDmm3U_TZxZ5A9kqYSmwHGKquK94OgKk9MmbtDeQX8iMu2J_aem_MgltoRwTemv0f_7V2AtZmA

 

Thoughts on these 8 pro censorship humans ?