Iowa should feel good about tonight

[Elevator]

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

While boring, Brand's traditional Iowa-style pressure, short-arms heavy hands, push-pull, squared-up sprawls and short offense, methodically improving position on top and bottom, etc., will keep him in every match. If he can force the guy to take a half-assed shot to avoid a stall call, he can win those sort of matches. It really depends on how disciplined his opponent is. Last night, the other guy was disciplined.

One complaint: Starocci shut it down at the end and danced around boxer-style. Brands, frustrated, did his own little dance. His attempt to mock Starocci sorta backfired in my opinion. I thought it was a bad look. 

I am not sure that this approach is good for the sport. The endless clubbing and hanging on collar ties in wars of attrition -- often a (stance) snoozefest with not much actual wrestling (motion, level change, penetration step, back arch).   The announcers suggested "presenting yourself" was adequate - but I wonder if more should not be required - actual efforts to score from neutral rather than merely avoidance of scorring.  After all, we have no step out points in folkstyle.

By no means does this observation apply to the matches at 125 or 184.   A few others it was a lesser problem - but overall it made the dual somewhat disappointing as the dual meet of the year between #1 and #2.  Looks like the Pitt v VaTech was far more interesting from a wrestling action persepctive.

[Bigbrog]

I found it ironic that the "yell stalling every two second Hawkey's" were the ones stalling in almost every match.  People can try and put lipstick on this pig, but Iowa stalled to keep this dual close...PSU clearly is the better team...period.

Lee is my favorite person to watch wrestle and even he shouldn't let that match go to tech fall to a backup of a backup.  Brands stalled to a close decision...and while the score may have been "close" he was NEVER close to winning that thing and stalled the whole time...so did about 3 other Iowa wrestlers.  What I noticed having watched a lot of college wrestling, including Iowa, is they wrestled last night not to lose as opposed to wrestling to win, which I have never seen an Iowa team do before...well except in the NCAA tournament.

[Jamie_Taco]

46 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

I found it ironic that the "yell stalling every two second Hawkey's" were the ones stalling in almost every match.  People can try and put lipstick on this pig, but Iowa stalled to keep this dual close...PSU clearly is the better team...period.

Lee is my favorite person to watch wrestle and even he shouldn't let that match go to tech fall to a backup of a backup.  Brands stalled to a close decision...and while the score may have been "close" he was NEVER close to winning that thing and stalled the whole time...so did about 3 other Iowa wrestlers.  What I noticed having watched a lot of college wrestling, including Iowa, is they wrestled last night not to lose as opposed to wrestling to win, which I have never seen an Iowa team do before...well except in the NCAA tournament.

Dude, PSU didn't score a single offensive point in FIVE matches and got teched 18-2 in another match. TWO of their returning NCAA champions won 2-1 on a riding point. WTF are you talking about Iowa stalled to keep it close? You actually think Starocci and Dean were working for points? Brands kept his position and stayed in the middle of the mat the entire match. That's not running, dawg. Brands was never close to winning just like Bartlett, Van Ness, and Facudno were never close to winning.

The only Iowa wrestler who truly stalled was Teske and he paid for it.

[Jamie_Taco]

3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

This is how. You are including 125 in your list of weights where PSU underperformed when the entire rest of the wrestling world is not. Spencer Lee was expected to pin the PSU starter by all 27 people who cared to make a pre-match prediction on this board, along with every single person who made a prediction on both PSU fan boards, and 10 of 11 people who made a prediction on the Iowa fan board. Instead he gave up a takedown and cradle to someone nobody has ever heard of, somebody who was 0-2 and sitting all season behind a clearly over matched wrestler. But you want to play at being cute by establishing an impossible criteria for your category. The performances are only equivalent if they moved up the same number of weights to take the L. That is just dumb when talking about the lowest weight. But then you knew that, Jimmy, er, I mean Jamie.

Jesus, there is so much stupid in this post.

1. I wasn't pointing out PSU 125 to show they underperformed. I was responding to someone saying it was a lopsided dual, which is really wasn't. You don't have 5 weights not score an offensive point and another lose 18-2 and call it a lopsided win.

2. I said, "Matches were 6-4, I believe the match points were close too. Within 5 points? That's not lopsided when you consider Iowa wrestled a backup 165 lber at 184 vs a 2x champ." Brooks scored 22 of their 44 match points vs a 165 true freshman back-up wrestling up two weights. Do you think he scores 22 points on Assad?

3. You're right, Vespa did take Spencer down and did a great job getting teched and not pinned (thanks to some help from those bonus PD calls). Either way though, Spencer was getting 5 or 6 and was going to be putting up points, back up or not. That is NOT the same with 184 with Assad wrestles. It's most likely a major as worst.

Now does that help clear up your obvious confusion from my initial post?

[Jamie_Taco]

Just out of curiosity, who do you think DT is talking about here?

 

[Elevator]

1 hour ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Just out of curiosity, who do you think DT is talking about here?

 

pretty sure he did not have Lee match in mind with this interesting suggestion!

[JimmyCinnabon]

Sorry guys, I was drinking heavily last night. Sorry for the vomit here on the board. I’d apologize but everyone knows I’m an idiot so I don’t think it’s necessary. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Just out of curiosity, who do you think DT is talking about here?

 

Who got a riding time point last night with no backs?

141 Woods

149 Murin

174 Starocci

197 Dean

HWT Kerk

[Scouts Honor]

6 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

I found it ironic that the "yell stalling every two second Hawkey's" were the ones stalling in almost every match.  People can try and put lipstick on this pig, but Iowa stalled to keep this dual close...PSU clearly is the better team...period.

Lee is my favorite person to watch wrestle and even he shouldn't let that match go to tech fall to a backup of a backup.  Brands stalled to a close decision...and while the score may have been "close" he was NEVER close to winning that thing and stalled the whole time...so did about 3 other Iowa wrestlers.  What I noticed having watched a lot of college wrestling, including Iowa, is they wrestled last night not to lose as opposed to wrestling to win, which I have never seen an Iowa team do before...well except in the NCAA tournament.

i thought the dual was in carver b/c of all the fan cries for stalling

i was told it only happens at carver

the same people who booed murin for riding hard and just staying in control on top, were cheering for star and others doing the exact same thing.

i mean... yeah perhaps brands was stalling.. but he was holding ground, moving forward.. he just wasn' tshooting much. I have been told a million times that shots dont mean you are doing anything. yet he still got called.

starrocci on the other hand was RUNNING backward etc etc for a bout 45 seconds... and no call

make no mistake, i knew that it would 3-2 or something of that nature. and that brands had no real shot of winning. .but still, its just funny the hypocrisy

maybe starrocci will realize what a fool he looks like trying to belittle other people he beat by one point... but probably not.

 

[Scouts Honor]

4 hours ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Just out of curiosity, who do you think DT is talking about here?

 

i mean yeah.. star has to go to OT if this is the rule

[Pinnacle]

6 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

I found it ironic that the "yell stalling every two second Hawkey's" were the ones stalling in almost every match.  People can try and put lipstick on this pig, but Iowa stalled to keep this dual close...PSU clearly is the better team...period.

Lee is my favorite person to watch wrestle and even he shouldn't let that match go to tech fall to a backup of a backup.  Brands stalled to a close decision...and while the score may have been "close" he was NEVER close to winning that thing and stalled the whole time...so did about 3 other Iowa wrestlers.  What I noticed having watched a lot of college wrestling, including Iowa, is they wrestled last night not to lose as opposed to wrestling to win, which I have never seen an Iowa team do before...well except in the NCAA tournament.

You nailed it. Brands plan was to not shoot, just tie up and hold position. Keep it close, hope to convert one score at the end. Teske played outside the lines and got decked. Others would have lost worse had they opened up. 

[1032004]

More Jimmy with his weird obsession of trying to get people to feel bad for Penn State.

The main Iowa guys I was impressed with were Murin and Kennedy, but it’s not like they pulled off big upsets or anything.

[PSUer1989]

The wrestlers were doing what the official allowed. If the rules for scoring on top or stalling were changed, Sanderson would quickly help his wrestlers adapt. Wrestling to the rules and then complaining about it being an effective path to victory makes no sense. 

[JimmyCinnabon]

16 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

i thought the dual was in carver b/c of all the fan cries for stalling

i was told it only happens at carver

the same people who booed murin for riding hard and just staying in control on top, were cheering for star and others doing the exact same thing.

i mean... yeah perhaps brands was stalling.. but he was holding ground, moving forward.. he just wasn' tshooting much. I have been told a million times that shots dont mean you are doing anything. yet he still got called.

starrocci on the other hand was RUNNING backward etc etc for a bout 45 seconds... and no call

make no mistake, i knew that it would 3-2 or something of that nature. and that brands had no real shot of winning. .but still, its just funny the hypocrisy

maybe starrocci will realize what a fool he looks like trying to belittle other people he beat by one point... but probably not.

 

Brands could take a thousand shots and wouldn’t score on Carter. He has zero chance of beating him. The two time national champ didn’t look like a fool. The guy who tried to mock a guy who beat him did, though. 

[Bigbrog]

22 hours ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Dude, PSU didn't score a single offensive point in FIVE matches and got teched 18-2 in another match. TWO of their returning NCAA champions won 2-1 on a riding point. WTF are you talking about Iowa stalled to keep it close? You actually think Starocci and Dean were working for points? Brands kept his position and stayed in the middle of the mat the entire match. That's not running, dawg. Brands was never close to winning just like Bartlett, Van Ness, and Facudno were never close to winning.

The only Iowa wrestler who truly stalled was Teske and he paid for it.

Your take is fair.  Just saw it differently then you is all.  And I am not necessarily a PSU fan...it's more of I just don't dislike them I guess.  But I will admit I do not like the Hawkes (more so the Brands)...but do some of their wrestlers, like Lee.

[ionel]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:00 AM, Jamie_Taco said:

Just out of curiosity, who do you think DT is talking about here?

 

Yes let's go back to the Iowa days of simply clubbing and pushing out of bounds.  Can you image a techfall with 15 pushouts, won't that be fun.  

[Jamie_Taco]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Yes let's go back to the Iowa days of simply clubbing and pushing out of bounds.  Can you image a techfall with 15 pushouts, won't that be fun.  

Oh yea, because we always see a ton of 10 pushout tech falls in freestyle, right?

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Oh yea, because we always see a ton of 10 pushout tech falls in freestyle, right?

International guys are at a bit of a different level than college freshmen. 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

Yes let's go back to the Iowa days of simply clubbing and pushing out of bounds.  Can you image a techfall with 15 pushouts, won't that be fun.  

This is a valid concern. Why bother finishing a takedown, only to inevitably give up 1 escape, when you can simply walk a single leg out of bounds. The latter nets you the same points without the extra effort.

Still, I'd wish they'd experiment with it

 

[Scouts Honor]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:58 AM, JimmyCinnabon said:

Brands could take a thousand shots and wouldn’t score on Carter. He has zero chance of beating him. The two time national champ didn’t look like a fool. The guy who tried to mock a guy who beat him did, though. 

i agree that brands isn't going to win.

but, tell me now, you think that what star was doing in the 3rd period was cool? even before brands does his stupid mocking?

i mean save the ali stuff for when you beat a decent guy