Birthright citizenship

[red viking]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

Yes, even naturalized citizens are subject to federal law. 

No, theyre expanding their interpretation of that law. Significantly. Read carefully. 

[1032004]

15 hours ago, Offthemat said:

“Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is the wording that will determine the outcome. 

So you’re saying illegal immigrants aren’t subject to US laws?  That doesn’t sound good

[Tripnsweep]

18 hours ago, Offthemat said:

“Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is the wording that will determine the outcome. 

Anyone who lives in the US is subject to our jurisdiction. Unless you know some kind of sovereign citizen loophole. 

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, Tripnsweep said:

Anyone who lives in the US is subject to our jurisdiction. Unless you know some kind of sovereign citizen loophole. 

Diplomats.  Here legally and not subject to our laws.  If one happens to give birth here the offspring does not get citizenship.

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Diplomats.  Here legally and not subject to our laws.  If one happens to give birth here the offspring does not get citizenship.

Let's not bring facts into the argument.  

[1032004]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

Let's not bring facts into the argument.  

Diplomats are not subject to US law, illegal immigrants are.

[Tripnsweep]

54 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Diplomats.  Here legally and not subject to our laws.  If one happens to give birth here the offspring does not get citizenship.

They are subject to some laws, but mostly not. I know they are notorious for ignoring parking tickets.

[Offthemat]

8 hours ago, 1032004 said:

So you’re saying illegal immigrants aren’t subject to US laws?  That doesn’t sound good

 

4 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

Anyone who lives in the US is subject to our jurisdiction. Unless you know some kind of sovereign citizen loophole.

You’ll learn more about the definition when the case is decided.  If you follow it.  Till then you can make all the risible arguments you like as to how the writers intended for illegal aliens to be able to come and birth citizens.

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Offthemat said:

 

You’ll learn more about the definition when the case is decided.  If you follow it.  Till then you can make all the risible arguments you like as to how the writers intended for illegal aliens to be able to come and birth citizens.

Good to know you already know what the outcome will be!  Do you have the powerball numbers too?

[mspart]

Let's look at the arguments when the 14th amendment was being drafted. 

https://mylegalwriting.com/2025/01/22/repost-birthright-citizenship-and-the-fourteenth-amendment/

Of particular importance to the Fourteenth Amendment’s citizenship clause was the phrase “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” which limited citizenship to children whose parents owed allegiance to the United States. Mere birth within the United States was not enough, since this would extend the privileges and immunities of citizenship even to the children of visiting diplomats or other persons having no kinship with our country. Senator Jacob Merritt Howard, who introduced the amendment for debate, explained as follows:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

Another way of phrasing the function of the “citizenship clause” was provided by then-Senator Reverdy Johnson, who observed:

Now, all this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign power – for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us – shall be considered as citizens of the United States. . . .

The Supreme Court also took note of the limited reach of the “citizenship clause” as follows:

The phrase, “subject to its jurisdiction” was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States.

Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. at 73.

So the understanding at the time the amendment became and amendment, it was that children of foreigners that were born in the US were not citizens by the 14th Amendment.  The clause which states, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, meant that non citizens having a child in the US did not make the child a citizen.  This was part of the original arguments and understanding at the time. 

This coincides with Trumps EO regarding birthright citizenship.  It seems clear that this is what the framers of the amendment understood. 

mspart