Carter Starocci faces allegations of sexual assault and theft

[BAC]

46 minutes ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

 I couldn't disagree more with your assessment that it's hard to separate assault from wrestling. It's not. 

I'm saying it's hard to know the difference as a coach. 

If one kid complains and the other denies it or says it was accidental, that's a pretty thin basis to discipline a kid.  Yes, sometimes it's obviously intentional, but sometimes it isn't so obvious, and coaches know that. 

If there's multiple reports, yes.  But in a one-off situation, I think most coaches would just say, "I don't know what happened but just try to make sure you don't do that." 

Here there is no indication it was reported at all. And just because a coach was nearby, doesn't mean he's watching for ball-grabs.

To be clear, if 2 or 3 of the complaining wrestlers in the article showed up in Cael's office with essentially the same complaint, and Cael did nothing, I'd find that utterly inexcusable -- even if Starocci denied it. But that's hypothetical based on the limited facts given.

 

[BarSeries]

[Packard]

I have always questioned Starroci’s character and temperament based on observations (terrible thing to do on my part). However, to say he should be kicked off the team or Cael should be fired is a pretty huge leap based on information in the article. 
First, the article says the police were not able to locate Starroci, but that could easily be misworded. Maybe the police did ask him questions but Starroci refused to cooperate. They have no evidence he did it, so what were they supposed to do? Get a search warrant?

What did you want Cael to do? Holy crap can you imagine if coaches opened police investigations every time a player reports something stolen from their locker? That’s millions of case a day! 95% of the time the player left it at home, car, etc. 

The SA allegations are horrible, but if nothing has been reported everybody’s hands are tired. Did anybody tell Cael or did “everybody” talk about it behind closed doors and Cael “had to know?”

Checking the oil and 5 on 2 are horrible parts of our sport. It has as much to do with our sport not growing as much as anything. However, if every wrestler was kicked off the team for accusations of that we’d have to move to 6 weight classes. 
All these factors combined, plus maybe more we don’t know, could lead to moving on and not joining the NLWC. But it’s hard to imagine kicking him off the PSU team with flimsy allegations. 

[Caveira]

34 minutes ago, BAC said:

As to the theft, I'm not sure what a coach can do besides point Beau to the police

Biggest psu apologist ever?  U serious.  That theft is a felony.  
 

Yes — at Penn State and under federal law, a D‑1 coach who learns that one of their athletes is committing a crime (such as theft over $1,000) would be required to report it to university authorities.

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1. Clery Act & Campus Security Authority (CSA)

• Under the Clery Act, coaches are designated as Campus Security Authorities. If they receive credible information about a crime (like theft), they're required to report it in good faith—even if it’s a rumor—to Penn State’s University Police or via the CSA Incident Report Form

• It’s not part of their job to investigate; it’s their responsibility to report.

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2. Institution Policies & Student Code of Conduct

• Penn State’s Student Code of Conduct explicitly lists theft and violation of law as reportable misconductpolice.psu.edu+1spotlightpa.org+1.

• Their internal Athletics Code of Conduct and Title IX policy require coaches to report any suspected misconduct to school administration or the Title IX Coordinator .

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3. Institutional Reporting Expectations

• After the Sandusky scandal, Penn State significantly reformed its reporting systemselibrary.law.psu.edu+15spotlightpa.org+15en.wikipedia.org+15.

• Coaches now undergo annual compliance training and are expected to report all suspected criminal or Title IX-related misconduct to appropriate officials, such as the Title IX Coordinator, Athletics Director, or University Police.

[JimmyCinnabon]

38 minutes ago, BAC said:

Jimmy my man, I'm not here to tell you who to root for, but you're making an awful lot of assumptions based on a very small amount of evidence.  Not every miscreant is a Jerry Sandusky, and not every coach/admint response that doesn't rectify it a Curley/Paterno.  

It looks bad for Starocci, as I see no reason for Beau to lie.  But remember, a lot of these other allegations are anonymous, and most have never been reported to police (or PSU).  In any case, one bad apple does not mean the whole tree is rotten.   

As I wrote earlier, there's a lot of open questions about what the coaches knew and what was reported to them.  There's no indication that anyone complained about his behavior toward women or, importantly, his in-practice conduct. If they were, those are game changers, but no one is saying that.  As to the theft, I'm not sure what a coach can do besides point Beau to the police, as they aren't detectives. Once reported to police, it is not appropriate for coaches to intervene.

The photo of Beau while naked is the most serious of the allegations that are said to have been reported to coaches.  But even there, there's much we don't know. Beau was naked, but did the photo itself show his privates?  If it did, was it immediately deleted? If not, was it among those posted to a group chat? When reported, did the coaches (a) ignore it, (b) discipline Starocci, but short of booting him, (c) report it up the chain, and they did nothing? Even if an AD dropped the ball, were the coaches willfully ignorant about what they knew to be serious (as they were aware of other perverted conduct), or did they understand this to be low-grade misconduct? I can see scenarios where there is culpability on the part of the coach it was reported to, but I also can see scenarios where it was handled properly.

If you want to take the position that "if a student-athlete ever takes a locker photo of a naked teammate, they should be immediately kicked off the team, no questions asked," you can. In the aftermath of this, I suspect some will take exactly that position. But it strikes me as extreme, as misconduct like this is highly fact-specific. Taking a picture as a gag and promptly deleting it after a laugh is far less culpable than posting a pic of his wang on a group chat, there's the related question whether it's a joke gone awry or more vindictive (as Beau sees it). From our vantage point, it's the other reports of misconduct that makes the photo so problematic, but it isn't clear the coaches had the benefit of that lens.

To be clear, I'm not trying to make excuses.  I'll be at the front of the line calling for resignations/firings if there's facts showing real culpability. But I loathe snap judgments based on one-sided ambiguity-laden reporting. Let the facts come out before making judgments based on facts you don't have.  I'd join you in calling for an investigation, but not for calling for anyone's head at this juncture.

Boy this sounds really familiar.

[JimmyCinnabon]

31 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

So I guess you won't be posting here any more?  Cya.

You would love that wouldn't you.

[VakAttack]

36 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Uh, I'm not... I despise the guy.  

Did you read the article?  It literally said the police could only take action if he admitted to the theft.  That's ludicrous.

Almost as ludicrous as you coming at me over my criticism of the police protocol.

Not totally ludicrous, since if the goods were never found, and there's no video of Starocci with them, and there's no admission....that's it.  So if this happened and was more about Starocci getting "revenge" or just messing with Bartlett, and he just took the items and destroyed them/got rid of them...that's unlikely to result in an arrest unless either Carter admits or someone provides actual evidence of it happening.

[BAC]

17 minutes ago, Ragu said:

“Penn State police were unable to contact Starocci over the course of the nearly six month investigation, Beau said. Since they couldn’t get an admission of guilt from Starocci, the case was closed and referred to student conduct.” 
says nothing about what protocol was used to try and contact CStar

This is a part of the article that I'd bet large amounts of money is inaccurate.

If it's really true that the cops were so bumblingly incompetent that they were "unable to contact" Starocci for six freaking months, then everyone in that chain of command should be fired. But I think it's exponentially more likely that they contacted Starocci, and he either said nothing or said he did not want to talk about it.  

It's conventional wisdom that if you're being investigated for a crime, you don't talk to the cops.  If he asked a lawyer for advice, that's what the lawyer would say. Most people know that. That seems far more likely what happened here.

[Packard]

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Biggest psu apologist ever?  U serious.  That theft is a felony.  
 

 

Yes — at Penn State and under federal law, a D‑1 coach who learns that one of their athletes is committing a crime (such as theft over $1,000) would be required to report it to university

---

 

It seems like it was reported. Did you see the part where security cameras were reviewed and people interviewed by the police?

[BAC]

12 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Yes — at Penn State and under federal law, a D‑1 coach who learns that one of their athletes is committing a crime (such as theft over $1,000) would be required to report it to university authorities.

Sure. But is that what the coaches learned?  What they have is a student telling them stuff they had in their locker isn't their anymore.  Even assuming that means it was stolen (and not lost/misplaced, which the coach won't know), what they don't have is any credible evidence that it was stolen by one of their athletes, as opposed to someone else. (Remember, this is before police looked at camera footage.)

[Ragu]

 

the author of the article, this thread sheds a little more light 

[WrestlingRash]

3 hours ago, Tripnsweep said:

This is really bad. 

this seems like bartlett and his wife are the ones who found the "victims" here and it just doesn't have a strong ring of truth 

[Caveira]

I can’t post pics…. But i can post tweets 

 

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, Ragu said:

 

the author of the article, this thread sheds a little more light 

I can't open it.  Isn't this the first post of the thread?

[steamboat_charlie]

If these allegations are true, and they are horrendous allegations, to be clear, then I believe Cael Sanderson and his entire staff will be let go.  

There is without a doubt a traceable pattern of lack of institutional control that is impossible to ignore, dating back to the Andrew Long saga.

The cone of silence around that program becomes much more sinister when you realize all that it may have been hiding.

Win at all costs, hide behind God.  That's the Penn State way.  

[BarSeries]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

this seems like bartlett and his wife are the ones who found the "victims" here and it just doesn't have a strong ring of truth 

WTF

[Ragu]

2 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

I can't open it.  Isn't this the first post of the thread?

Yes

[Fletcher]

Putting aside the theft and SA claims, the claim that he was taking nude photos of teammates in the shower and posting in the group chat. That's more than a he-said/she-said situation. It's provable with the group chat.

If that was reported to the coaching staff and they didn't report up the chain of command, that's a fireable offense.

[BAC]

15 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Not totally ludicrous, since if the goods were never found, and there's no video of Starocci with them, and there's no admission....that's it.  So if this happened and was more about Starocci getting "revenge" or just messing with Bartlett, and he just took the items and destroyed them/got rid of them...that's unlikely to result in an arrest unless either Carter admits or someone provides actual evidence of it happening.

Agreed, especially if whatever Kasak said didn't give them any ammunition to charge Carter.  Hard to see how you can prove a charge beyond a reasonable doubt here, where your only real evidence of charging Starocci over Kasak is motive. Beau would probably win a civil suit on these facts, but no one's doing that over 1K. 

[neweruser69]

5 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

this seems like bartlett and his wife are the ones who found the "victims" here and it just doesn't have a strong ring of truth 

Nah, if anything this seems super plausible due to the way Carter has always presented himself. I'd think everyone in the wrestling community has been in contact with someone like this in the past and he just fits that archetype. 

Beau on the other hand has always been high-character, so I don't think they are materializing victims out of thin air.

There's always been smoke regarding Starocci, people are just seeing the fire now. 

[Ragu]

 

 

[neweruser69]

If any percentage of this is true, the PED/Steroid accusations are going to become much more believable. 

Having said that, I don't really think Cael probably had any knowledge of this and shouldn't be punished unless proven otherwise. 

[goheels1812]

42 minutes ago, BarSeries said:

 

I wonder if this is the warmup for AJ Ferrari to make his thoughts known on the situation

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, neweruser69 said:

If any percentage of this is true, the PED/Steroid accusations are going to become much more believable. 

Having said that, I don't really think Cael probably had any knowledge of this and shouldn't be punished unless proven otherwise. 

right out of the article 
 

Beau and Mark, a former teammate who requested anonymity due to fear of retaliation, alleged Starocci took nonconsensual explicit photos of them in the Nittany Lions’ locker room. Beau said the photos were reported to Sanderson along with the theft, but nothing came of it from the coach.

“I walked out of the shower to a snapshot from (Starocci) of me, naked,” Beau said. “The team had a snapchat group chat that he filled with those kinds of pictures of teammates.”

[BarSeries]

6 minutes ago, neweruser69 said:

I don't really think Cael probably had any knowledge of this

Well ok then