Inevitable change is coming

[Le duke]

Spencer Lee just took home an Olympic silver and is the odds-on favorite to win worlds this year.
Buchanan chose, on his own, to pick Iowa and they coached him up to a natty over a (holds nose) very game Focus and a likely 2-3x champ in Ryder (McEnally pending).
Ayala has made the finals twice. Not his fault he ran into the buzz saw known as Lucas Byrd, Illinois Athlete Of The Year.
Iowa won the team trophy in '21 and would have in '20 as well.
Thomas Gilman did nearly all his best work at HWC. Maybe if he stayed there he would not have attempted a merkle costing him potential Olympic gold.
Kueter chose wrestling over football in what was likely the most pivotal offseason of his football career, one that could cost him literally tens of millions of dollars if we play the what-if game.
The sky is not falling. Iowa is still Iowa. I would gladly take Iowa's results and outlook.

Ryder? As in…Zack Ryder? The RSFR who wrestled a handful of matches at 184 for PSU?

Buchanan did not wrestle 184 and Ryder never sniffed 197…

Are you talking about Josh Barr?


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[bnwtwg]

22 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Ryder? As in…Zack Ryder? The RSFR who wrestled a handful of matches at 184 for PSU?

Buchanan did not wrestle 184 and Ryder never sniffed 197…

Are you talking about Josh Barr?


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Yes, yes I am. This Iowa defense has me all sorts of flustered and makes me sick to my stomach.

[Le duke]

Yes, yes I am. This Iowa defense has me all sorts of flustered and makes me sick to my stomach.

Well, to rinse the bad taste out of your mouth, here’s Aaron Brooks treating Buchanan like my Kelpie treats my 2 year old’s favorite teddy bear:

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[bnwtwg]

27 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Well, to rinse the bad taste out of your mouth, here’s Aaron Brooks treating Buchanan like my Kelpie treats my 2 year old’s favorite teddy bear:

 

 

 

 

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Two wrongs don't make a right, but I appreciate you anyways. Big ass ram noggin just dominating

[GreenandGold]

1 hour ago, RawDog said:

I suspect they only got spencer because Penn State already had suriano at the time. 

From what I have heard, the Lee family wanted nothing to do with Cael & Co. They didn't care for the games, etc. so let's not pretend PSU is the penultimate for every blue chip...most, but not all.

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Spencer Lee just took home an Olympic silver and is the odds-on favorite to win worlds this year.

Buchanan chose, on his own, to pick Iowa and they coached him up to a natty over a (holds nose) very game Focus and a likely 2-3x champ in Ryder (McEnally pending).

Ayala has made the finals twice. Not his fault he ran into the buzz saw known as Lucas Byrd, Illinois Athlete Of The Year.

Iowa won the team trophy in '21 and would have in '20 as well.

Thomas Gilman did nearly all his best work at HWC. Maybe if he stayed there he would not have attempted a merkle costing him potential Olympic gold.

Kueter chose wrestling over football in what was likely the most pivotal offseason of his football career, one that could cost him literally tens of millions of dollars if we play the what-if game.

The sky is not falling. Iowa is still Iowa. I would gladly take Iowa's results and outlook.

There's a lot of... rose colored glasses here.

Kueter needed hip surgery. He didn't CHOOSE Football over Wrestling this upcoming season, his body chose for him. 

Buchanan-The guy was a 3X AA who'd taken 3rd TWICE in a weight with Brooks and Dean. You also had Parco, Teemer a 4X AA and a 3X AA who took a 2nd and NEITHER placed.

You talk about if Gillman didn't try a "merkle," which he may not have done had he stayed at HWC...but what did Gabe Arnold do in the Wrestlebacks last year vs Parker? That was the guy who was going to "shut up Starocci," and then didn't even Wrestle him.

 

Also, saying they would have won 2020 is...silly. Winning the B10s(as Michigan has shown) doesn't equate to winning the team title 2 weeks later. 

125-Lee PROBABLY wins it.
133-Both have AAs, maybe RBY wins his first title this year instead of the following year...most likely a ~3-5th for PSU, 5th-8th for Iowa
141-A likely finalist for PSU, Murin MAYBE places. 
Nick Lee #2 Seed, he'd been back and forth with Pletcher, he'd beaten McKenna the year before. 
Max Murin-Finished up taking a sixth. 

149-Lugo-Favorite
PSU-RD of 12-16 maybe

157-Maybe 1 AA here, Young from Iowa...in a loaded weight. Maybe 6-8. 

165-Joseph PSU 3X Finalist 2X Champ
Marinelli #1 Seed, but had lost to Joseph and he'd taken a 7th, Rd12 and then 6th surrounding that 2020 season. 

174-Mark Hall-3X Finalist-3X Champ if nor for Valencia
Kemerer

Hall is the favorite here as well

184-Aaron Brooks -Good shot of winning the title. One loss to Ventz who he beat and it was a weak weight.
Iowa-Freshmen Assad-likely DNP

197-IOWA -Warner-Likely AA-4-8
PSU- Rasheed Beat Warner and lost to Warner- Rd of 12 type

HWT-Cass Top 5

 

The Tournament almost certainly comes down to how future NC's RBY, Lee and Brooks do as well as how big matchup's at 165 and 174 go. 

Iowa has claimed this "title" despite not actually having won it because they were seeded to do better?

Ok...well, one of the two teams has traditionally won the big matches, one hasn't.

 

 

Iowa is NOT "still Iowa." The Iowa Hawkeyes were the most feared program in the Country. Teams were AFRAID to Wrestle them. They did what PSU does now. They got Freshmen into the finals or beating multiple time AAs, they did it at a time when there were fewer scholarships by getting guys to give up scholarships(by working camps and paying their own tuition). 

Guys WANTED to go to Iowa. Guys transferred from Syracuse and elsewhere, the entire Midwest wanted to Wrestle for Gable. They had an aurora, a mystique to them. That's gone and it doesn't seem like there's any indication it's coming back. In fact...they mostly just look like the same program as they were in 1995, but what worked in 1995 does work now.

The scrambling, the offense, it hasn't evolved with the rest of the sport. 

 

Iowa is important to the sport as a whole and...they're a team competing for 2nd place and I never imagined I'd see Iowa fans just saying, 'well....we're still good...we're usually the 2nd best team.' 

 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, GreenandGold said:

From what I have heard, the Lee family wanted nothing to do with Cael & Co. They didn't care for the games, etc. so let's not pretend PSU is the penultimate for every blue chip...most, but not all.

Well, they're not the penultimate choice for most of the top Wrestlers now, they're the final choice.

But seriously... with Lee, it was VERY publicly Iowa and PSU as his final two schools. So... in this case, that's exactly what PSU was. The penultimate school for him. 

 

I'm not at all surprised he identified more with the Brands than Cael.

They did this interview with Lee a few years ago and with the PSU guys. 

Spencer Lee;

"What's winning mean to you."

A-"It's life or death. That's it, it's everything."

Cael-

A-"Well, it's a game and we're lucky to be able to go out there and play a game, the process doesn't change because of the tournament, we're blessed to be able to play a game and you just go out there and have fun and see what happens."

 

So...that's a pretty big difference. It's also what I think makes PSU s damn good at winning on the front side of the bracket(prior to this years when they actually disappointed and still had 10 AAs and set a NEW record for the 2nd time in 2 years. 

[AgaveMaria]

Before Gary Kurdelmeier and Dan Gable Iowa was second banana in the State. Had never won an NCAA title.

Following Gable was tough. He had the touch & brought out the best in his wrestlers. Cael has it, most don't. Some are close. We'll see about Taylor.

Tom is producing a good product, just not Good Enough to meet expectations.

Still a good coach, just not getting the results expected.

Do you get rid of the guy who consistently has you in the top echelon? You are vying for second place most years - along with a few other programs - though you are usually a bit above them.

"Iowa Style" - is it holding them back? Can the Terrible Twins break out & actually challenge Penn State on a yearly basis? Oklahoma State is in the conversation but won't be more than that for a few years, if ever. Great Recruiting does not guarantee great results. New Coach, new expectations, new excitement - it wears off in the face of reality. OSU did not beat Iowa in the dual this past season. Maybe this year?

Should be an interesting season.