Doublehalf Posted June 10 Author Posted June 10 1 hour ago, jross said: A broad education doesn’t need forced DEI to include diverse perspectives. There are topics that many people feel are inappropriate to even hypothetically discuss because it risks normalization. When is Genocide a legitimate option Exploring Child Sexual Exploitation as Morally Acceptable Why Violent Extremism can be a Social Good Should Ritualistic Human Sacrifice be allowed in some Cultures Forcing DEI is ideological overreach, an opinion shared by millions... and why its being pulled back. Bro... you are coming off as absolutely insane with this post to think there is a moral equivalency to what Bernard said vs what you are saying. For chrissakes man, why do you people have such a hard on for the world to be all white, allow for less opportunities for those that aren't and to make those that are different feel alienated and unsafe.... I just really can't understand this complete lack of empathy for humanity and how that has somehow been twisted to being some kind of weakness. Your brain is operating on an evolutionary level of a caveman... Your kind of people can only empathize with a group until a specific circumstance happens directly to you or someone close to you that you care about. A society where there are people with diverse beliefs (assuming those beliefs aren't causing widespread pain and suffering) have equal opportunities and places to 'be' is not a bad thing.... If you have a problem with DEI being used in some capacity you don't agree with that's fine, show some data/examples but it's just coming off like you are a bigot... I swear if we went back in history your way of thinking aligns with those that wanted separate water fountains for blacks, schools (which you still agree with it sounds like only not based on race) and women to freely choose what they want to do. The world has a way of humbling all of us and opening our eyes to things we can't see and I just hope when it happens to you it doesn't negatively impact the health of you or anyone you love. 1
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 11 minutes ago, uncle bernard said: Where the F are you getting these? I think you've lost your mind if you think any of those topics compare to "DEI" ideas. You can't even define DEI. It's an umbrella term you use for any sort of social value you don't like. Quote "That means learning about the world, even the parts you don't like. If those ideas are so wrong, being exposed to them will only make that more clear to your daughter." - Uncle Bernard I provided hypothetical topics and learned that you do not absolutely believe your own words. DEI in practice splits people apart via groups, racism, division, and quotas. That’s not DEI's stated goal, but it’s what it does. 2 1
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 12 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: For chrissakes man, why do you people have such a hard on for the world to be all white, allow for less opportunities for those that aren't and to make those that are different feel alienated and unsafe.... Educate all kids to give them the chance to create value later in life through merit. Then, let people prove their worth through merit. You either have it or you don’t. I don’t care about your appearance or behavior. Just don’t make me act like you, and pull your own weight. Why are you acting racist ("all white")? Probably because you took some identity-focused class that taught you to lump people together by traits they can’t control...
red viking Posted June 10 Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Caveira said: Ftfy How did Gov Evers (here in WI) "break the law?"
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 20 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: I just really can't understand this complete lack of empathy for humanity and how that has somehow been twisted to being some kind of weakness. Your brain is operating on an evolutionary level of a caveman... Your kind of people can only empathize with a group until a specific circumstance happens directly to you or someone close to you that you care about. Empathy starts with those closest to me...self, family, friends, neighbors... then spreads outward to city, state, nation, and world. That’s not primitive; it’s human nature. ...I've traveled to developing parts of India many times. 1 1
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 27 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: I swear if we went back in history your way of thinking aligns with those that wanted separate water fountains for blacks, schools (which you still agree with it sounds like only not based on race) and women to freely choose what they want to do. So another example ^^ of someone who cannot think critically. Got it. 1
Doublehalf Posted June 10 Author Posted June 10 2 minutes ago, jross said: Educate all kids to give them the chance to create value later in life through merit. Then, let people prove their worth through merit. You either have it or you don’t. I don’t care about your appearance or behavior. Just don’t make me act like you, and pull your own weight. Why are you acting racist ("all white")? Probably because you took some identity-focused class that taught you to lump people together by traits they can’t control... The utopia you just described of all kids being educated the same from the start doesn't exist and just exacerbates how little you know about the world... I never had to take a class to learn to have an open mind and gain perspectives that weren't solely my own. My guess is you live within an hour of where you grew up and the slim chance you have ever been out of the country was on a trip to an all inclusive resort in Mexico. You probably live far enough from a major metro area you have little exposure to people that have a different way of thinking than you. You crave your safe spaces that you deride others for wanting you just don't realize your safe spaces are in a wrestling room or weightlifting gym or talking about 'woke leftists' with other non-evolved acquaintances that think just like you do. If you were physically capable of having a nuanced conversation I would say it's worth engaging with you to hear why you actually believe the things you do and get to a root cause of those beliefs but clearly that's not possible so I think my time spent conversing with you ends here. 1
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 28 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: A society where there are people with diverse beliefs (assuming those beliefs aren't causing widespread pain and suffering) have equal opportunities and places to 'be' is not a bad thing.... That's certainly agreeable; probably almost universal agreement. Quote If you have a problem with DEI being used in some capacity you don't agree with that's fine, show some data/examples but it's just coming off like you are a bigot... Umm... we've covered example after example both in public and private many times on this here forum. I'll pull up an old topic for ya. I mean this is partly why Trump is now president... 1
Offthemat Posted June 10 Posted June 10 26 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: I swear if we went back in history your way of thinking aligns with those that wanted separate water fountains for blacks It’s easy to tell who has knowledge and understanding of history and who is victimized by recent indoctrination. 1 1
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 2 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: My guess is you live within an hour of where you grew up and the slim chance you have ever been out of the country was on a trip to an all inclusive resort in Mexico. You probably live far enough from a major metro area you have little exposure to people that have a different way of thinking than you. Traveled to 49 of 50 states. Have traveled to multiple countries in the Americas, Asia, Australia, and Europe. Work with now and have managed a very diverse set of people of different skin colors, religion, gender, sexual identity. The two best character people I've known were from work, including one Mormon lady 25 years my senior, and one Muslim man a few years younger. I managed them for years. I have organized and volunteered in a major metro area... 1
uncle bernard Posted June 10 Posted June 10 40 minutes ago, jross said: I provided hypothetical topics and learned that you do not absolutely believe your own words. DEI in practice splits people apart via groups, racism, division, and quotas. That’s not DEI's stated goal, but it’s what it does. None of those are even remotely "hypothetical" DEI topics lol I might as well propose some "hypothetical" Conservative topics while we're at it: Should we liquidate the poor? Are you a bad person if you're not wealthy? Are immigrants human?
mspart Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: The utopia you just described of all kids being educated the same from the start doesn't exist And why is this? D's have been in charge of urban areas for generations. They are the one's that are the champions of the poor and people of color. Your statement is more an indictment of the status quo as built by the D's than the utopia of educating everyone the same, which should be the utopia of the Ds. In fact, they have attempted to reduce requirements so that they can say they educate everyone the same. What kind of education is that? It is the effort to keep people uneducated so they are more easily controlled. That is not utopia and is not something to aspire to. mspart Edited June 10 by mspart 2
Doublehalf Posted June 10 Author Posted June 10 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mspart said: And why is this? D's have been in charge of urban areas for generations. They are the one's that are the champions of the poor and people of color. Your statement is more an indictment of the status quo as built by the D's than the utopia of educating everyone the same. Really bad move by you even treading down this path... Example of Current (Recent) Results (These rankings can shift slightly year to year; here’s a rough consistent pattern based on recent composite data:) Most Educated / Top Performing (Children) Least Educated / Poor Performing (Children) Massachusetts New Mexico New Jersey Louisiana Connecticut Mississippi Vermont West Virginia New Hampshire Alabama Minnesota Nevada Virginia Oklahoma Sources of Rankings Several organizations already produce rankings of “best” and “worst” states for education, often using a composite of the above: WalletHub — annual Best & Worst School Systems report. US News & World Report — Best States for Education rankings. Education Week — publishes Quality Counts report. NAEP Data Explorer — allows you to pull raw test score data directly. I may be a little fuzzy but tell me which parties typically have control of the governorships and state legislatures in those states??? In our language I would say as far as your argument goes, you just got teched... Edited June 10 by Doublehalf
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 50 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: where there are people with diverse beliefs (assuming those beliefs aren't causing widespread pain and suffering) have equal opportunities and places to 'be' is not a bad thing.... If you have a problem with DEI being used in some capacity you don't agree with that's fine, show some data/examples... A few example topics with examples to comb through Member ancedotes https://intermatwrestle.com/forums/topic/6300-what-does-dei-hiring-ultimately-mean Public news Vilifying at work: https://nypost.com/2024/01/11/news/johns-hopkins-hospitals-dei-chief-labels-whites-males-and-christians-privileged-in-letter-to-staff/ Lawsuits: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2023/12/20/dei-reverse-discrimination-lawsuits-increase-woke/71923487007 DEI gone wrong examples are woven in to multiple threads on this forum and the internet. There are hundreds of examples.
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 15 minutes ago, uncle bernard said: None of those are even remotely "hypothetical" DEI topics lol I might as well propose some "hypothetical" Conservative topics while we're at it: Should we liquidate the poor? Are you a bad person if you're not wealthy? Are immigrants human? You understand now. Some ideas aren’t worth learning and probably shouldn’t even be elective courses. The school costs a fortune yearly, yet the student is not treated as a “customer,” right? We agree on some ideas but differ on others, like DEI topics. Mandating controversial ideological courses unrelated to her degree feels like indoctrination, not proper education.
mspart Posted June 10 Posted June 10 13 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: Really bad move by you even treading down this path... Example of Current (Recent) Results (These rankings can shift slightly year to year; here’s a rough consistent pattern based on recent composite data:) Most Educated / Top Performing (Children) Least Educated / Poor Performing (Children) Massachusetts New Mexico New Jersey Louisiana Connecticut Mississippi Vermont West Virginia New Hampshire Alabama Minnesota Nevada Virginia Oklahoma And Harvard has to provide remedial classes because their incoming freshmen are not up to speed. I'm really surprised with all the data out there you are trying to go down the path that education in america is the best it's ever been. https://educationonline.ku.edu/community/how-usa-education-measures-up-worldwide The United States has been struggling to keep up with other countries in terms of educational performance, particularly in mathematics and science. The consequences of this educational gap are far-reaching, impacting both the economy and the prospects of American workers. The USA “is now the worst-educated workforce in the industrialized world. The United States is grappling with an educational crisis and has been for some time, as indicated by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).2 Numerous countries outperform the United States in high school mathematics, revealing a notable achievement gap. Additionally, American millennials rank last in mathematics and problem-solving tests when compared to their counterparts in other countries. This situation poses a substantial challenge to the nation's global economic standing and undermines the future competitiveness of American workers. In the 2018 PISA results, the United States achieved an average score of 1,485, placing it in the 22nd position among the countries assessed. While the United States' performance was below that of top-performing countries like China, Singapore, and Estonia, it still exceeded the average scores for all the OECD countries, which scored 1,465. AI overview of this article from Kansas University states: The US education system has a mixed record when compared to other countries. While the US excels in higher education, with top-ranked universities and a strong emphasis on research, K-12 education performance lags in some areas. In math, the US has been below average, with some reports even showing a decline in student scores. In science, the US is above the OECD average but still below some top-performing countries. Substandard education that is better than other areas of the country is not excellent education. Talk about getting teched. mspart 1
Doublehalf Posted June 10 Author Posted June 10 1 minute ago, mspart said: I'm really surprised with all the data out there you are trying to go down the path that education in america is the best it's ever been. This wasn't at all the path I was going down and no where in my post did I say I was. It was a response to your moronic comment about democrats being in charge and kids not all having the same opportunities. To which I responded to that idiotic question with a list of the best and worst states in the US for testing scores and by far the democratically lead states crushed the GOP. I would 100% agree the US is falling behind the rest of the worlds top countries when it comes to education that's no surprise with the GOPs war on education/knowledge. 1
Tripnsweep Posted June 10 Posted June 10 4 hours ago, jross said: For my daughter's college, the first required class for all students is the Identity and Society class. I cannot find the syllabus for her course but at other colleges it says the many kinds of identity currently in circulation (racial, ethnic, gender, and sexual identities; illnesses identities; political identities; etc.) All students are also required to take at least 6 additional credits hours for Diversity & Inclusion courses, one each scoped to: US – A course that deals with race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion, age and/or ability within the United States or for U.S. citizens. Global – A course will emphasize power, privilege and marginalization or a critical analysis of how non US cultures define and express themselves or a course that will deal with general philosophies of power, privilege and marginalization encountered in race, ethnicity, gender, orientation, religion, age and/or ability. There are additional exploratory and capstone project course requirements largely based on DI selections. She is able to narrowly avoid the race/gender/sex studies to meet those requirements. It sounds like there are a lot of courses you can choose from to fulfill that requirement. I took a class on pop culture and contemporary media that fulfilled a similar sounding requirement when I was in college. So there is pretty wide latitude on what you can do. It doesn't *have* to be a class on gender studies, but it can be if you want.
uncle bernard Posted June 10 Posted June 10 3 minutes ago, jross said: You understand now. Some ideas aren’t worth learning and probably shouldn’t even be elective courses. The school costs a fortune yearly, yet the student is not treated as a “customer,” right? We agree on some ideas but differ on others, like DEI topics. Mandating controversial ideological courses unrelated to her degree feels like indoctrination, not proper education. Right. When you go to College, you are trusting the experts who run that College to decide what the proper curriculum is. Your consumer choice is where/whether you attend, not what you have to take when you get there. This is a great example of entitlement culture. You don't get to demand the world cater to your every desire. You keep acting like being required to take a class *about* something means you have to believe or endorse everything that's said in that class. That's just stupid. You think it's indoctrination because you've been indoctrinated to believe that everything that even talks about gender, race, etc...is inherently evil. What you're actually mad about is that the colleges *aren't indoctrinating* students with *your beliefs.* 1
uncle bernard Posted June 10 Posted June 10 4 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: This wasn't at all the path I was going down and no where in my post did I say I was. It was a response to your moronic comment about democrats being in charge and kids not all having the same opportunities. To which I responded to that idiotic question with a list of the best and worst states in the US for testing scores and by far the democratically lead states crushed the GOP. I would 100% agree the US is falling behind the rest of the worlds top countries when it comes to education that's no surprise with the GOPs war on education/knowledge. knowing things is wokeness! 1
uncle bernard Posted June 10 Posted June 10 3 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said: It sounds like there are a lot of courses you can choose from to fulfill that requirement. I took a class on pop culture and contemporary media that fulfilled a similar sounding requirement when I was in college. So there is pretty wide latitude on what you can do. It doesn't *have* to be a class on gender studies, but it can be if you want. He knows this, but it doesn't fit the agenda he's trying to push. 1
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 17 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: Really bad move by you even treading down this path... I may be a little fuzzy but tell me which parties typically have control of the governorships and state legislatures in those states??? In our language I would say as far as your argument goes, you just got teched... Will you connect your argument from "state" to the Urban schools MSPart referred to? 2 1
jross Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) 12 minutes ago, uncle bernard said: He knows this, but it doesn't fit the agenda he's trying to push. No, a "Society and Identity" (this is the actual class name) class is required for everyone. This includes racial identity, gender identity, and sexual identity. Two more classes are required for DI with US and Global (subset selection). Even more Critical Thinking credits are required and there is broader selection. Edited June 10 by jross clarify that its the actual class name!
JimmySpeaks Posted June 10 Posted June 10 3 hours ago, red viking said: Figured somebody like you would try to insult me by accusing my son of being gay. First of all, he's definitely not gay. Second of all, I wouldn't feel bad if he was. Your bigotry shines through here though. None of my kids are gay, but they are all accepting of the freedom of people to do what they want and express their own sexuality, whatever that is. Why would you go straight there? Of course we know why. To play the card. Haven’t you ever heard of being happy and gay? I think there’s even a song about it.
JimmySpeaks Posted June 10 Posted June 10 28 minutes ago, uncle bernard said: knowing things is wokeness! Knowing what they want you to know is definitely wokeness
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