Article about the rise of a Dual State

[jross]

8 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Sure, but that's not what's happening.

You're extrapolating 1 anecdote that we don't even know is true and claiming it's representative of normal college experiences.

And you've also confirmed here that what I said earlier is true. You're not mad about "indoctrination." You're mad that students aren't being indoctrinated with your ideas.

You don't understand what education is. You don't understand academic freedom. You want the world to cater to your beliefs because you are entitled.

Should the school be academically free to provide a controversial topic like this?

• Is genocide worth eventual peace?

I inferred your answer to hypotheticals like that was "No, schools should not do that."  So what say you?

Where did you get that amazing education that taught you to know my thoughts better than I do?

I'm not just entitled; I'm Dr. Sherita Hill Golden's worst nightmare.

[jross]

14 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

If you DM me, I will look at the requirements and admit I was wrong publicly on here.

Will have to be a facetime phone call.

[Tripnsweep]

The graduation requirements for undergrads are easily available for every major online. I posted the general education ones for the college/university I graduated from. I could even give you the specifics of my major and course study, which is also publicly available since it's not specific to me in any way. I don't know why you're reluctant to do that. 

[Tripnsweep]

https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/checksheet/2025/CLA/LAGCUBS/null

The requirements now are pretty much the same as when I graduated. 

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, jross said:

Should the school be academically free to provide a controversial topic like this?

• Is genocide worth eventual peace?

I inferred your answer to hypotheticals like that was "No, schools should not do that."  So what say you?

Where did you get that amazing education that taught you to know my thoughts better than I do?

I'm not just entitled; I'm Dr. Sherita Hill Golden's worst nightmare.

That's not a class topic. That's something that would be discussed in an Ethics of War class or something like that, and yes it's appropriate to discuss. All sorts of taboo topics are discussed in Ethics classes (that's kind of the whole point of the class).

I was in a class where an ROTC student made a pro-drone warfare presentation where the core of his argument is that non-American lives do not have the same value as American lives, and therefore we shouldn't worry about killing civilians in war.

In debate classes, one of the most common techniques is to make someone defend the opposing view. For example, an anti-abortion person has to argue why abortion should be legal. That doesn't mean they have to actually believe it. But it makes them thoroughly examine both sides of the argument, which in turn makes them more equipped to argue for their actual beliefs because they fully understand the other side's position and how to argue against it.

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

Cost of living is much lower in poor rural areas than poor urban areas. Not an apples to apples comparison. The urban schools also typically are forced to deal with more special-needs kids while the smaller town schools aren't, not to the same extent at least. 

What does having more special needs kids in urban schools have to do with rural areas having higher test scores?  

[red viking]

9 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

What does having more special needs kids in urban schools have to do with rural areas having higher test scores?  

I know you're trying to be funny or something but it affects both the test scores and costs. The most special needs kids typically get transported to the larger urban schools that can meet their needs. Their cost is significantly higher (to put it mildly) than a typical kid. Then these charter schools don't take in any special needs kids whatsoever (rural public take in some mild cases) so they have low costs and higher test scores and that's why they can  brag that they're doing much better work for less money. It's all a crock of lies, just like everything else coming from the wingers. 

[JimmySpeaks]

41 minutes ago, red viking said:

I know you're trying to be funny or something but it affects both the test scores and costs. The most special needs kids typically get transported to the larger urban schools that can meet their needs. Their cost is significantly higher (to put it mildly) than a typical kid. Then these charter schools don't take in any special needs kids whatsoever (rural public take in some mild cases) so they have low costs and higher test scores and that's why they can  brag that they're doing much better work for less money. It's all a crock of lies, just like everything else coming from the wingers. 

Not trying to be funny at all.  So you are saying that special needs test scores are included in the control groups results and not a sub category??  

Edited Tuesday at 09:28 PM by JimmySpeaks

[red viking]

7 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Not trying to be funny at all.  So you are saying that special needs test scores are included in the control groups results and not a sub category??  

I would think some of them (maybe not all) are included in avg test score numbers and the costs are also included. 

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, red viking said:

I would think some of them (maybe not all) are included in avg test score numbers and the costs are also included. 

Is the theory blue cities have more special needs kids than non blue cities and rural areas?  As a percentage of total student population.  

Edited Tuesday at 09:44 PM by Caveira

[JimmySpeaks]

29 minutes ago, red viking said:

I would think some of them (maybe not all) are included in avg test score numbers and the costs are also included. 

They’re generally compared to the control group but not always included.  So special needs scores aren’t  bringing down the scores of the overall group. 

Edited Tuesday at 10:06 PM by JimmySpeaks

[red viking]

4 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

They’re generally compared to the control group but not included.  So special needs scores aren’t  bringing down the scores of the overall group. 

Ai answer: 

AI Overview

+5
Yes, the test scores of special education children are counted in statistics, particularly in reports related to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). However, the inclusion of these scores can have a specific impact on overall school proficiency levels, potentially leading to a slight decrease in the overall score. 

[Caveira]

Just now, red viking said:

Ai answer: 

AI Overview

+5
Yes, the test scores of special education children are counted in statistics, particularly in reports related to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). However, the inclusion of these scores can have a specific impact on overall school proficiency levels, potentially leading to a slight decrease in the overall score. 

So if it’s only a slight decrease.  Explain why test scores are trash in big blue cities like Chicago Baltimore Detroit etc.  

[JimmySpeaks]

5 minutes ago, red viking said:

Ai answer: 

AI Overview

+5
Yes, the test scores of special education children are counted in statistics, particularly in reports related to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). However, the inclusion of these scores can have a specific impact on overall school proficiency levels, potentially leading to a slight decrease in the overall score. 

“Potentially”  leading to a slight decrease in the overall score. 

[JimmySpeaks]

7 minutes ago, red viking said:

Ai answer: 

AI Overview

+5
Yes, the test scores of special education children are counted in statistics, particularly in reports related to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). However, the inclusion of these scores can have a specific impact on overall school proficiency levels, potentially leading to a slight decrease in the overall score. 

And the results are also listed separately 

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

“Potentially”  leading to a slight decrease in the overall score. 

It’s  the opposite of the Vikings dode complaints.  Now he’s citing statistically irrelevant things lol 

 

 

[JimmySpeaks]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

It’s  the opposite of the Vikings dode complaints.  Now he’s citing statistically irrelevant things lol 

 

 

He was adamant that it wasn’t apples to apples.

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

I know you're trying to be funny or something but it affects both the test scores and costs. The most special needs kids typically get transported to the larger urban schools that can meet their needs. Their cost is significantly higher (to put it mildly) than a typical kid. Then these charter schools don't take in any special needs kids whatsoever (rural public take in some mild cases) so they have low costs and higher test scores and that's why they can  brag that they're doing much better work for less money. It's all a crock of lies, just like everything else coming from the wingers. 

thats funny.. .that can meet their needs. the needs AREN"T being met.

this is what happens and part of why kids end up at public instead of private.

the public school is supposed to provide transport or supplying an aide for the kid that is at a private, for certain times during the day... to receive certain help.   but they continually fail to do so...until eventually, the kid's parents just decide it would be better to just go to the public school.

i have seen it first hand. the school wants to count that kid and get that state money. which is fine.

but the needs of the private school kids nor the public school kids are NOT  being met.

Edited Tuesday at 10:26 PM by Scouts Honor
forgot word not

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

I know you're trying to be funny or something but it affects both the test scores and costs. The most special needs kids typically get transported to the larger urban schools that can meet their needs. Their cost is significantly higher (to put it mildly) than a typical kid. Then these charter schools don't take in any special needs kids whatsoever (rural public take in some mild cases) so they have low costs and higher test scores and that's why they can  brag that they're doing much better work for less money. It's all a crock of lies, just like everything else coming from the wingers. 

charter schools ARE public schools

rural public steal them from parochial... to get the money

and your post.. is a crock of lies

[Scouts Honor]

55 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Not trying to be funny at all.  So you are saying that special needs test scores are included in the control groups results and not a sub category??  

all kids are included.

 

[Scouts Honor]

40 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Is the theory blue cities have more special needs kids than non blue cities and rural areas?  As a percentage of total student population.  

i think so

more crazy insane dems live in cities...

[Offthemat]

So it’s once again been presented to us that the teachers know best, because they’re educated, what propaganda students should be exposed, and at least feign conformation to, in order to obtain a desirable grade toward a degree, even at a State institution such as UCSD.  That a bunch of eggheads, many of whom have never worked a day at a for profit business, nor having been required to justify a simple PL statement, know best what irrelevant nonsense should be included in a well rounded, accreditable degree.

It is not important that any graduate knows every demented, peculiar facet of personality they may encounter.  They need to be taught truth, and how to find it no matter what they encounter.  Playing into, and supporting someone’s nonsensical fantasy is a form of cruelty and abuse, no matter from how high an ivory tower it emanates.

Well, it turns out there are others who have a say in the matter.  First of all, the taxpayers and voters, whose money supports the institutions and pays the salaries of the educators, and cast their votes for the ultimate overseers.  Second, the students, whose protests are most impactful by the reduced enrollments being experienced across the country.  Then there’s the employers, who are increasingly denying to hire the graduates from the most progressive colleges and universities, no matter their previously prestigious status.  Lastly, the Federal Gov’t, which can deny funds based  on the determination that it’s a waste of time and money, and detrimental to American society to promote the programs.  
 

Leading minority scholars, such as Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Robert Woodson, Wilfred Reilly, and Clarence Thomas have pointed out the devastating effects that Affirmative Action has had on minorities in America.  That often a student who would excel at a highly accredited state university, fails or severely underperforms at an elite school when they gain admission through Affirmative Action, or the modern DEI program.  They show that there is often more disparity between siblings than between races.  Jimmy Carter and his brother, Billy.  Bill Clinton and his brother, Roger, the cocaine dealer.  Barry Soetoro’s brother lived in a hut in Africa.  While you can see many highly successful minorities, blacks who have arrived in America recently overwhelmingly out earn descendants of slaves.  They also show that some of the impoverished, segregated, black high schools graduated the highest scoring students in nationwide tests prior to the Equal Rights Acts of the ‘60s.  But I didn’t learn that in school.  Nobody did.  

[red viking]

24 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

So it’s once again been presented to us that the teachers know best, because they’re educated, what propaganda students should be exposed, and at least feign conformation to, in order to obtain a desirable grade toward a degree, even at a State institution such as UCSD.  That a bunch of eggheads, many of whom have never worked a day at a for profit business, nor having been required to justify a simple PL statement, know best what irrelevant nonsense should be included in a well rounded, accreditable degree.

It is not important that any graduate knows every demented, peculiar facet of personality they may encounter.  They need to be taught truth, and how to find it no matter what they encounter.  Playing into, and supporting someone’s nonsensical fantasy is a form of cruelty and abuse, no matter from how high an ivory tower it emanates.

Well, it turns out there are others who have a say in the matter.  First of all, the taxpayers and voters, whose money supports the institutions and pays the salaries of the educators, and cast their votes for the ultimate overseers.  Second, the students, whose protests are most impactful by the reduced enrollments being experienced across the country.  Then there’s the employers, who are increasingly denying to hire the graduates from the most progressive colleges and universities, no matter their previously prestigious status.  Lastly, the Federal Gov’t, which can deny funds based  on the determination that it’s a waste of time and money, and detrimental to American society to promote the programs.  
 

Leading minority scholars, such as Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Robert Woodson, Wilfred Reilly, and Clarence Thomas have pointed out the devastating effects that Affirmative Action has had on minorities in America.  That often a student who would excel at a highly accredited state university, fails or severely underperforms at an elite school when they gain admission through Affirmative Action, or the modern DEI program.  They show that there is often more disparity between siblings than between races.  Jimmy Carter and his brother, Billy.  Bill Clinton and his brother, Roger, the cocaine dealer.  Barry Soetoro’s brother lived in a hut in Africa.  While you can see many highly successful minorities, blacks who have arrived in America recently overwhelmingly out earn descendants of slaves.  They also show that some of the impoverished, segregated, black high schools graduated the highest scoring students in nationwide tests prior to the Equal Rights Acts of the ‘60s.  But I didn’t learn that in school.  Nobody did.  

LMAO. Cherry-picked right-wing extremists that happen to be minorities. Their pathetic arguments are so old and easy to shoot down that it isn't even funny. 

[Offthemat]

7 minutes ago, red viking said:

LMAO. Cherry-picked right-wing extremists that happen to be minorities. Their pathetic arguments are so old and easy to shoot down that it isn't even funny. 

You are deceiving yourself if you believe anyone believes you. 

[jross]

@Doublehalf

DEI

Now, a whistleblower has come forward to claim that Lockheed executives were so committed to DEI policies that they awarded some year-end bonuses based on employees’ skin color, rather than performance…

…In the end, the whistleblower followed the order and “swapped” 18 whites for 18 minorities, solely on the basis of race. A few months later, our source left the firm and penned a resignation letter to colleagues.

https://t.co/MiIgxeUSBX