All this transgender athlete fuss lately. . .

[Husker_Du]

24 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

No it wasn't, Gaines was the obnoxious one. She was insufferable and she's been insufferable. She threw Larry Nassar back at Biles and then for the last couple years, she's just done nothing other than say, 'a man was in the locker room and we tied and they gave Lia Thomas the 5th place trophy instead of me,' which is...what they do in every situation in which someone ties.

 

She's like a bot. She's just...the same over and over. You could just take the same interview from the last 3 years and just replay it. 

idk how dumb a person can be. particularly when i just mentioned this.

strip away everything Gaines said. fine. say it's stupid.

What Simone said was so dumb, she recanted publicly.

stop being 'us vs. them' and debate the the actual topic.

you're not interested in a dialectic, you're interested in the soap opera and your side winning.

[Seanyd]

This will be my last post on this thread.  Non-revenue generating sports in college are hanging on by a thread, adding another division isn't feasible or financially responsible. Transgender's are mentally ill, sexual deviants, or have parents indoctrinating them at a young age into this lifestyle. The latter should be jailed.

Edited Thursday at 11:31 PM by Seanyd

[Husker_Du]

also, Larry Nassar should be thrown at her, you dippy

[1032004]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

No it wasn't, Gaines was the obnoxious one. She was insufferable and she's been insufferable. She threw Larry Nassar back at Biles and then for the last couple years, she's just done nothing other than say, 'a man was in the locker room and we tied and they gave Lia Thomas the 5th place trophy instead of me,' which is...what they do in every situation in which someone ties.

 

She's like a bot. She's just...the same over and over. You could just take the same interview from the last 3 years and just replay it. 

Since apparently we’re not moving on…

Hey give her some credit!  She’s branched out to shilling ivermectin with a promo code and implying it cures cancer 

[1032004]

39 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

idk how dumb a person can be. particularly when i just mentioned this.

strip away everything Gaines said. fine. say it's stupid.

What Simone said was so dumb, she recanted publicly.

stop being 'us vs. them' and debate the the actual topic.

you're not interested in a dialectic, you're interested in the soap opera and your side winning.

Simone didn’t recant her whole thing.  She recanted saying that Gaines is the size of a man.  She stood by her other comments.

[pokemonster]

41 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

also, Larry Nassar should be thrown at her, you dippy

Tf? Throwing cheap shots and comparing her mass sexual abuser to a trans person playing kids sports is a joke. Not comparable by any means. Calling the trans kid a boy and ridiculing them on social media for millions to see is just cruel as well. 

[scourge165]

13 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Since apparently we’re not moving on…

Hey give her some credit!  She’s branched out to shilling ivermectin with a promo code and implying it cures cancer 

Yeah, I didn't know we were moving on, but... this ivermectin thing, it's weird. It's like...it's for parasites. Undercooked food or tropical fruit fresh off the tree...miracle drug. Zero efficacy in cancer and covid, but it became this line where if you were pro-ivermectin, you were a 'free thinker man,' because you trust THIS big pharma drug! And if you were smart and...realized Covid wasn't parasitic, you were... for the system!

[1032004]

27 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

Tf? Throwing cheap shots and comparing her mass sexual abuser to a trans person playing kids sports is a joke. Not comparable by any means. Calling the trans kid a boy and ridiculing them on social media for millions to see is just cruel as well. 

Yeah but Simone said Gaines was the size of a man, can you believe that??

[JimmyCinnabon]

1 hour ago, Seanyd said:

This will be my last post on this thread.  Non-revenue generating sports in college are hanging on by a thread, adding another division isn't feasible or financially responsible. Transgender's are mentally ill, sexual deviants, or have parents indoctrinating them at a young age into this lifestyle. The latter should be jailed.

I completely understand why you lead with “this will be my last post on this thread.” 

Edited Friday at 12:55 AM by JimmyCinnabon

[pokemonster]

Here’s my solution for all inclusivity and fairness, brought to you by ChatGPT. What do we think?

---

🏛 UNIVERSAL SPORTS ELIGIBILITY FRAMEWORK™

---

I. STRUCTURE: THREE COMPETITIVE DIVISIONS

Division	Eligibility
Female	Cis women, intersex women, and trans women who meet strict eligibility criteria
Male	All cis men, trans men, and intersex athletes regardless of hormone status
Open	Anyone, regardless of gender identity, puberty history, or hormone levels

---

II. SPORT CATEGORY MATRIX

Eligibility enforcement scales with advantage risk by sport type.

Category	Examples	Eligibility Strictness	Why It Matters
Power-Based.	Sprinting, swimming, weightlifting, rugby, combat sports	MAXIMUM	Strength, speed, bone structure, endurance advantages retained post-puberty
Hybrid	Soccer, basketball, softball, volleyball, tennis, golf	MODERATE	Physical + skill blend, moderate advantage possible
Skill-Based	Archery, esports, shooting, equestrian,	MINIMAL	Negligible retained advantage, focus on inclusion

---

III. FEMALE DIVISION ELIGIBILITY BY GROUP

 Cisgender Women

• Automatically eligible

• Exception: If T > 5 nmol/L in Power sports → must either:

  • Suppress T, OR

  • Demonstrate no performance edge, OR

  • Enter Open Division

---

 Trans Women

Eligibility depends on puberty stage at transition, hormone status, and sport type.

Puberty Stage at Transition	Status	Eligibility Summary
Before Tanner Stage 2	(Pre-puberty)	Eligible for Female Division in all sports
Tanner Stage 2–3	(Early-to-mid puberty)	Allowed if T ≤ 2.5 nmol/L for 24+ months
After Tanner Stage 4	(Completed male puberty)	Must suppress T and pass No Performance Edge review

Additional Sport-Type Rules:

• Skill-based sports: T ≤ 2.5 nmol/L for 12+ months — no panel needed

• Hybrid sports: Full 24 months + panel review for late-transitioners

• Power sports: Strict enforcement of all conditions; panel always required

---

 Intersex / DSD Athletes

• If T ≤ 5 nmol/L → Fully eligible for Female Division in all sports

• If T > 5 nmol/L →

  • Allowed in Skill

  • Panel review in Hybrid

  • Must suppress or pass performance test in Power sports

---

IV. “NO PERFORMANCE EDGE” PATHWAY

Applies to:

• Trans women post-Tanner Stage 4

• Intersex/DSD athletes with high T (>5 nmol/L)

Must submit verifiable, sport-specific data showing parity with cisgender female peers. Includes:

1. Muscle Mass Reduction:

   • DXA scan or significant BMI reduction

2. Performance Regression:

   • Slower sprint/lift/swim times compared to pre-transition PRs

   • Competition benchmarks that match top cisfemale athletes

3. Strength / Endurance Testing:

   • Grip strength, VO₂ max, and power output within female elite norms

4. Panel Review:

   • Independent panel: 1 endocrinologist, 1 sport scientist, 1 female athlete rep

Approval → Female Division
Denial → Open Division

---

V. WHO PAYS?

Group	Pays for...	Notes
Youth (<18)	School/state body covers T-testing, panel, travel if needed	No youth excluded for financial reasons
Adults	Athlete pays for therapy/testing; panel cost may be split	Sport federations may subsidize based on financial need
Intersex (if challenged)	Governing body pays for all required testing	Cannot compel surgery; no medical coercion allowed

---

VI. OPEN DIVISION FEASIBILITY

Mandatory across all levels to prevent athlete bans.

• Youth/Rec level: Can be integrated into co-ed or open rec leagues

• Elite/Pro level: Standalone bracket with:

  • Equal prize structure

  • Official rankings

  • Recruitment and sponsorship support

Launch strategy:
Start with track, combat sports, and tennis as pilot categories
Encourage wildcard entries and trans/intersex visibility campaigns
Build participation via regional qualifiers

---

VII. CASE STUDIES

---

 Marissa Rothenberger (Trans HS Softball Pitcher)

• Sport: Hybrid (softball)

• Reportedly transitioned post-puberty, has a strong throwing arm

• Analysis:

  • If T ≤ 2.5 nmol/L for 24+ months AND passes grip/speed/mass testing → Female Division

  • If not → Open Division only

---

 Imane Kelif (Cis Woman, Olympic Boxer – Algeria)

• Sport: Power-Based

• Reported natural T > 5 nmol/L

• Refuses suppression on principle

• Analysis:

  • Ineligible for Female Division

  • Eligible for Open Division

  • Cannot be forced to lower T or undergo surgery

---

 Caster Semenya (Intersex Middle-Distance Runner – South Africa)

• Sport: Power-Based (800m)

• Reported T 7–10+ nmol/L, refuses suppression

• Analysis:

  • Ineligible for Female Division without suppression or performance regression

  • Can race in Open Division

  • Review panel optional if performance has measurably declined

---

 Mack Beggs (Trans Male Wrestler – Texas)

• Sport: Power-Based

• Assigned female at birth, on testosterone

• Was forced to compete in Female Division under Texas rules

• Analysis:

  • Eligible for Male or Open

  • Not allowed in Female Division while on T (performance-enhancing)

---

 AB Hernandez (Trans Girl, Youth Track – California)

• Sport: Hybrid (track: sprints & relays)

• Transitioned during puberty

• Analysis:

  • If T suppression began before Tanner Stage 2 → Eligible for Female

  • If transition occurred after Tanner Stage 4 → Must pass all tests OR enter Open

  • If uncertain timing → Subject to 24+ month T suppression + performance review

---

VIII. CORE PRINCIPLES

Principle	Implementation
Protect fairness	T suppression + performance standards for power/hybrid sports
Full inclusion	Open Division ensures no bans or exclusion
Science over identity	Physical benchmarks > subjective identity alone
No forced medicalization	No required surgery or invasive sex testing
Legally defensible	Equal access + biomarker criteria = compliant globally
Scalability	Works across school sports, NCAA, Olympic federations

---

 

[Scouts Honor]

how about just stop being idiots

this is the way: 

 

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

idk how dumb a person can be. particularly when i just mentioned this.

strip away everything Gaines said. fine. say it's stupid.

What Simone said was so dumb, she recanted publicly.

stop being 'us vs. them' and debate the the actual topic.

you're not interested in a dialectic, you're interested in the soap opera and your side winning.

This is Jimmy/Scout level intellectually dishonest.

What is my "side" you clown? What MORE would you like me to "debate" on this topic?

Jesus Christ... I said I don't think trans women should be able to compete with women. What "side" is that on?
I said I don't have enough information to make a decision about DSD but that I thought the Algerian Boxer was treated unfairly. What "Side" is that?

I even agreed with the 'oh...no...I'm so afraid to say this, but what about 3 divisions,' post... you twat. 

 

That I'm sick of seeing Riley Gaines is that triggering for you? 

 

Beyond that, tell me what "side" I've been on that YOU haven't...excluding your willingness to watch Riley Gaines for the next 40 years repeat 'and then...there ....was a man and he had a penis in the locker room.' 

Yeah, got it 4 years ago Riles. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

also, Larry Nassar should be thrown at her, you dippy

Yeah, no, you're right. The guy who sexually abused her should be "thrown at her," in a Twitter War.

 

So now I can completely dismiss the fact that you think...or at the very least CARE that Riley Gaines had to see Lia Thomas in the locker room. 

And you're exposing the hypocrisy of the "team" bu!!*I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* with the with your whining about me not being interested in a "dialectic." Which, I agree...implore you to show me what "dialectic," I've refused to engage in here on the "actual topic" rather than an "us vs them," which...I'm not realizing perhaps you identify as Riley Gaines as that's the only "them" I've been against. 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

how about just stop being idiots

this is the way: 

 

Uh, this doesn’t talk about trans or sports.

But good to know you’re against gay marriage.

[Scouts Honor]

yes, i know you don't make connections well. do you think that's all she is talking about? 

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Uh, this doesn’t talk about trans or sports.

But good to know you’re against gay marriage.

 

[scourge165]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Uh, this doesn’t talk about trans or sports.

But good to know you’re against gay marriage.

Yeah...it's at BEST tangentially related, but it's Jimmy/Scout. They just find something with lots of likes and re-post it.

The funniest is when they repost an article where the headline SEEMS like it matches what they're arguing, but then you read it and you realize...it doesn't. It's not even close...they just posted it without reading it as they have no attention span. 

 

Last I saw(or maybe I've just gotten good at ignoring him) he was still making the case it wasn't illegal to be trans in Algeria because some men abused boys in Afghanistan, right? That's about as coherent a thought as you'll get from him on a topic. 

[Scouts Honor]

wondering who has such a high suicide rate... that she might be talking about.

ok... lets just say she is talking only about gay marriage.

now, how much more confusing is the trans crap for kids?

can you make a connection?

probably not.

 

[scourge165]

3 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

yes, i know you don't make connections well. do you think that's all she is talking about? 

 

Well, if she has 3+ minutes and she doesn't bring up trans kids in athletics once, it's...not this topic. 

 

Sounds like she's broadly talking about LGBT being in the minority, last she checked, we're a Democracy, 50+1(she hasn't checked very recently because that's not how it really works) but i don't know what she was talking about. She just yellled or 3 minutes and we had no prior context ot what they were even talking about OTHER than apparently...some people were saying some good things and she didn't like that and felt compelled o let people know 50% of people in North Carolina(+1) are God Fearing. 

[Scouts Honor]

i know... you don't understand much of anything

no problem

i can explain it for you

50 + 1 means 51%

majority

again. go back to what YOU think she was talking about. maybe she was.

but now, take another step. if you think gay marriage is confusing to kids

talk about a girl having to have a boy in her restroom or locker room.

EVEN YOU can understand that  confusion i hope. 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Scouts Honor said:

i know... you don't understand much of anything

no problem

i can explain it for you

50 + 1 means 51%

majority

again. go back to what YOU think she was talking about. maybe she was.

but now, take another step. if you think gay marriage is confusing to kids

talk about a girl having to have a boy in her restroom or locker room.

EVEN YOU can understand that  confusion i hope. 

Maybe she was implying things about trans folks in her rant.  But she most definitely was not talking about sports.  

Irrelevant to this thread, sorry.

Edited Friday at 04:58 AM by 1032004

[Scouts Honor]

i know...  that you dont understand.

if you all stop being idiots.

people won't be so confused. 

very relevant.

it's been decades of this crap... which leads to this thread..

people still wondering... 

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

wondering who has such a high suicide rate... that she might be talking about.

ok... lets just say she is talking only about gay marriage.

now, how much more confusing is the trans crap for kids?

can you make a connection?

probably not.

 

No little Jimmy, we're not getting stuck in another Jimmy loop where you post something that's at best tangentially related and then you say "make the connection."

And why the hell would we argue she's at a school board meeting talking about gay marriage? 

And I don't think kids find "trans crap" all that confusing.

 

She's pretty clear in what she's talking about there and...I'm not sure YOU'RE able to make the connection. 

It's not about athletics at all, so...not related to this issue. So....again, you found a tweet that got lots of likes and you just...reposted it here. 

 

Also, my GUESS would be her point was more about the overall suicide rate up about 35% among teens since 1999 and that's not because they're exposed to 'trans crap.' 

 

But again, had you made your own cogent point here, we wouldn't have to extrapolate what she was talking about from a Tweet with no context other than 'lots of us believe in god, not many LGBT people,' which took up like...one sentence. 

[Scouts Honor]

good night.

[1032004]

Just now, Scouts Honor said:

i know...  that you dont understand.

if you all stop being idiots.

people won't be so confused. 

very relevant.

it's been decades of this crap... which leads to this thread..

people still wondering... 

wait, all these ellipses…

are you @LJB?

[Scouts Honor]

Just now, scourge165 said:

No little Jimmy, we're not getting stuck in another Jimmy loop where you post something that's at best tangentially related and then you say "make the connection."

And why the hell would we argue she's at a school board meeting talking about gay marriage? 

And I don't think kids find "trans crap" all that confusing.

 

She's pretty clear in what she's talking about there and...I'm not sure YOU'RE able to make the connection. 

It's not about athletics at all, so...not related to this issue. So....again, you found a tweet that got lots of likes and you just...reposted it here. 

 

Also, my GUESS would be her point was more about the overall suicide rate up about 35% among teens since 1999 and that's not because they're exposed to 'trans crap.' 

 

But again, had you made your own cogent point here, we wouldn't have to extrapolate what she was talking about from a Tweet with no context other than 'lots of us believe in god, not many LGBT people,' which took up like...one sentence. 

you and 1090129u3029u3094u were the one who said gay marriage.

wow. so b/c it's not about athletics it doesn't fit.

get a brain.

[1032004]

Just now, Scouts Honor said:

you and 1090129u3029u3094u were the one who said gay marriage.

wow. so b/c it's not about athletics it doesn't fit.

get a brain.

Correct, the topic is about trans in sports.  Not about sports = not relevant