How Do YOU Score This?

[gimpeltf]

Just now, ionel said:

This is a pancake    thread, no pastries!  

That's a bunch of crepe!

[MPhillips]

Just now, gimpeltf said:

That's a bunch of crepe!

[ionel]

18 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

That's a bunch of crepe!

bananas! 

[1032004]

10 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

He wasn't bridging defensively, he was pinning offensively. Just need refs with the agility to get in position to call it and the courage to call it against the home team.

On another note, I mentioned above that Maximo visibly pushed off with both feet to get DeAugustino's shoulders to the mat. I know refs look at who initiates the action in freestyle. I also know it doesn't matter in folkstyle except for this: It should be a Bat Signal to refs that the bottom man is going for the defensive fall. Get in position!

Final question: Can you be awarded near fall points while you are pinned?

 

They’re not going to care about calling it “against the home team.”  They may have a slight hesitation to call it in the final matchup that would decide the dual though.  And while it’s possible DeAugustino may have been pinned, I think generally speaking refs won’t call defensive falls as fast as they’ll call “regular” falls. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

10 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

They’re not going to care about calling it “against the home team.”  They may have a slight hesitation to call it in the final matchup that would decide the dual though.  And while it’s possible DeAugustino may have been pinned, I think generally speaking refs won’t call defensive falls as fast as they’ll call “regular” falls. 

Better be planted to make that call.

[Eagle26]

Did I miss something? It looks like a very clear 4 and 1

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

54 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

Did I miss something? It looks like a very clear 4 and 1

duh... the top position "danger rule"

If the bottom man announces he is attempting a defensive pin, there is a danger count to determine if the bottom man gets backpoints

[TexRef]

2 hours ago, MPhillips said:

Me too...

Nobody likes a quitter

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

ORDER

After hearing argument on Twitter, Instagram and Intermatforums.com, and after hearing from expert witnesses who were former ILLINI wrestling greats, this court has reached a final decision. 

FINDINGS OF FACT: Michael DeAugustino, the party of the first part, would have gotten four back points if he hadn't already been pinned by Maximo Renteria, the party of the second part. 

THEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Northwestern must forfeit the match, change their official school name to "Nerdwestern," and bring us a shrubbery. One that looks nice, and not too expensive. 

[1032004]

8 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

duh... the top position "danger rule"

If the bottom man announces he is attempting a defensive pin, there is a danger count to determine if the bottom man gets backpoints

I’ll forgive OP for not knowing the specifics of the danger rule or thinking it matters if the defensive wrestler is trying to pin the offensive wrestler, but I think it’s a worthy debate about whether DeAugustino was pinned there.

Edited January 22, 2023 by 1032004

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

17 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

That was "Illini Wrestling Forum" junk tech

NW appeared flat, but for how long in real time?  Can't tell with that video, which clearly slows down.

You are wrong.

BTN uploads a two-hour match within a couple of hours of its completion. Do you suppose they produce it in high definition?

Of course not.

They are interested in a speedy upload, not Minolta-picture quality. I can assure you that I produced what they had in the highest possible definition with my software (PowerDirector) and then processed it in HD on YouTube. 

 

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

34 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

You are wrong.

BTN uploads a two-hour match within a couple of hours of its completion. Do you suppose they produce it in high definition?

Of course not.

They are interested in a speedy upload, not Minolta-picture quality. I can assure you that I produced what they had in the highest possible definition with my software (PowerDirector) and then processed it in HD on YouTube. 

 

 

Did you slow down the video at any point?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

I’ll forgive OP for not knowing the specifics of the danger rule or thinking it matters if the defensive wrestler is trying to pin the offensive wrestler, but I think it’s a worthy debate about whether DeAugustino was pinned there.

I 100% agree that he appears flat from the camera angle.  For how long?  Tough to tell.

Also keep in mind that the official is simultaneously counting near fall.  Tough to do two things at once.

[1032004]

Here is the BTN video.  Sequence is at about 33:15.

It’s awfully close, and then there’s a second or 2 where the video isn’t at a good angle.  But I think 9/10 refs aren’t going to make that call unless it’s super obvious.  DeAugustino did seem to realize his position and was rolling around.

Side note, but Illinois really screwed up by choosing bottom in the 3rd there, unless they didn’t care about the dual result and just wanted Renteria to get exposure to trying to get out from DeAugustino.  It had been 5 minutes and DeAugustino couldn’t take him down, and you know he’s pretty tough on top (and probably the biggest 125 other than Glory).  Then the final mistake was Renteria trying to go upper body in the last 30 seconds (edit: although I guess that was because he was trying to win the individual match).

Side note #2 - that was probably the most action I’ve ever seen from DeAugustino in neutral, presumably because he knew he needed the major.  He’s usually incredibly boring in all the matches I’ve seen of his.

Edited January 22, 2023 by 1032004

[Eagle26]

I do agree there’s a debate about whether it could have been a defensive fall or not. Right or wrong, I personally like the idea of making absolutely sure the guy is flat for at least a full second before you call a defensive fall. From this video, it doesn’t look like the ref had an opportunity to do that. However, there is that one instant where the video cuts out where he could’ve been flat at that time. So if you saw it live (I did not), maybe it looked worse. Regardless, the only scoring option there is 4-1 NW or call the pin for IL

[1032004]

And clearly the announcers don’t understand how scoring works either…

[Eagle26]

^just missed that video with my previous post. Definitely close but I like the no call of the pin. Hard to tell from the angle but looks like his far shoulder was probably up. 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Here is the BTN video.  Sequence is at about 33:15.

It’s awfully close, and then there’s a second or 2 where the video isn’t at a good angle.  But I think 9/10 refs aren’t going to make that call unless it’s super obvious.  DeAugustino did seem to realize his position and was rolling around.

Side note, but Illinois really screwed up by choosing bottom in the 3rd there, unless they didn’t care about the dual result and just wanted Renteria to get exposure to trying to get out from DeAugustino.  It had been 5 minutes and DeAugustino couldn’t take him down, and you know he’s pretty tough on top (and probably the biggest 125 other than Glory).  Then the final mistake was Renteria trying to go upper body in the last 30 seconds (edit: although I guess that was because he was trying to win the individual match).

Side note #2 - that was probably the most action I’ve ever seen from DeAugustino in neutral, presumably because he knew he needed the major.  He’s usually incredibly boring in all the matches I’ve seen of his.

Thanks for this! BTN rendered this version in high definition. My dude was pinned for about three seconds. In defense of the ref, DeAugustino kicked away from the ref three times to obscure the fact that he was pinned. 

[Crotalus]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:01 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I 100% agree that he appears flat from the camera angle.  For how long?  Tough to tell.

Also keep in mind that the official is simultaneously counting near fall.  Tough to do two things at once.

Yep. I don't think a defensive fall is going to be called there very often. Renteria was off to the side just enough that the ref was locked on him and not looking at DeAugustino's shoulders at all. Unless you've got a really jumpy ref, the top guy is going to have to be held there pretty solidly, not flopping around. That's the danger of reaching back like that, as you're more likely to expose your own back than get the defensive pin call. 

23 hours ago, 1032004 said:

And clearly the announcers don’t understand how scoring works either…

Yeah, that was embarrassing. How did they think the bottom man can score nearfall points?

[Major Kong]

1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

Yep. I don't think a defensive fall is going to be called there very often. Renteria was off to the side just enough that the ref was locked on him and not looking at DeAugustino's shoulders at all. Unless you've got a really jumpy ref, the top guy is going to have to be held there pretty solidly, not flopping around. That's the danger of reaching back like that, as you're more likely to expose your own back than get the defensive pin call. 

Yeah, that was embarrassing. How did they think the bottom man can score nearfall points?

It's my beloved NU announcers.  Handfighting and circling on their feet the wrestlers are "gridlocked", and have no "mobility". With both down on the mat they "dance" or "tiptoe"out of bounds. The top guy is "looking for some defense", "there's a lot of game left" etc. etc.

Amazing that a U with such a big tv/broadcast school can't find someone who has a JV wrestler's knowledge of the sport.

[MPhillips]

15 minutes ago, Major Kong said:

Amazing that a U with such a big tv/broadcast school can't find someone who has a JV wrestler's knowledge of the sport.

It used to be anyway. Now I just find it unbelievable...

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

Yeah, that was embarrassing. How did they think the bottom man can score nearfall points?

At first I thought they said the wrong guy’s name or something.  But even after seeing the score for several more minutes they didn’t realize until the match ended.

The only reasonable thing I can think of is maybe they thought he was awarded a reversal first?  But I think it was 1-0 DeAugustino and they thought it went to 5-1 Renteria, so unless they still think there’s a 3 point nearfall their math would still be off.

[Major Kong]

10 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

At first I thought they said the wrong guy’s name or something.  But even after seeing the score for several more minutes they didn’t realize until the match ended.

The only reasonable thing I can think of is maybe they thought he was awarded a reversal first?  But I think it was 1-0 DeAugustino and they thought it went to 5-1 Renteria, so unless they still think there’s a 3 point nearfall their math would still be off.

No, they are just clueless. The "play by play" kid knows nothing at all about wrestling and the "color" kid, though on the roster, doesn't know much.

[Crotalus]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

At first I thought they said the wrong guy’s name or something.  But even after seeing the score for several more minutes they didn’t realize until the match ended.

The only reasonable thing I can think of is maybe they thought he was awarded a reversal first?  But I think it was 1-0 DeAugustino and they thought it went to 5-1 Renteria, so unless they still think there’s a 3 point nearfall their math would still be off.

The play-by-play guy claimed Renteria was in a danger position and had DeAugustino caught on his back. The math doesn't add up, but he clearly thought Renteria earned 4 NF, stating "that's 4 big points for Renteria".

I was waiting for the confusion to set in, but it never really did. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Crotalus

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

The play-by-play guy claimed Renteria was in a danger position and had DeAugustino caught on his back. The math doesn't add up, but he clearly thought Renteria earned 4 NF, stating "that's 4 big points for Renteria".

I was waiting for the confusion to set in, but it never really did. 

Yup, good point