When our companies have to pay tariffs to sell their goods to other countries isn't that just a form of extortion?

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Think globalization vs Nationalism 

Ok...so lets just cede our position as a world power and the largest economy to China. That is what we've done.

 

7 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

How much you want to bet that there won’t be a “Great Depression” because of tariffs ?

There's already been one. The last time someone was stupid enough to try this.

 

7 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Bull*I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*  I’ve watched/read numerous videos/articles stating that long term this can work  

Who? I shudder to think what brilliant economic minds you watch that think across the board tariffs are a GOOD thing.

 

8 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

And again that was 8 years ago  things can, do and need to be updated 

NOTHING CHANGED...you clown.

Things need to be updated? A trade agreement that was being adhered to.

 

And by the way, we have a trade SURPLUS with Canada when energy is taken out...and you've already made it clear you don't understand how the global energy supply works, but we get oil from Canada at a fixed price, the oil in Canada goes elsewhere at a fixed price, it's irrelevant where it's coming from, but we WANT low gas prices, right?

 

So NOTHING changes, the trade agreement works out(in the United States favor) and the same morons who believed that the OTHER Country pays the tariffs thinks the "greatest trade deal ever," needs to be re-worked 8 YEARS later.

 

Please explain why? What in your feeble mind changed other than what the idiot in charge who thinks we can go back to the James Polk era and that's a great idea for our future economy. 

[JimmySpeaks]

2 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Ok...so lets just cede our position as a world power and the largest economy to China. That is what we've done.

 

There's already been one. The last time someone was stupid enough to try this.

 

Who? I shudder to think what brilliant economic minds you watch that think across the board tariffs are a GOOD thing.

 

NOTHING CHANGED...you clown.

Things need to be updated? A trade agreement that was being adhered to.

 

And by the way, we have a trade SURPLUS with Canada when energy is taken out...and you've already made it clear you don't understand how the global energy supply works, but we get oil from Canada at a fixed price, the oil in Canada goes elsewhere at a fixed price, it's irrelevant where it's coming from, but we WANT low gas prices, right?

 

So NOTHING changes, the trade agreement works out(in the United States favor) and the same morons who believed that the OTHER Country pays the tariffs thinks the "greatest trade deal ever," needs to be re-worked 8 YEARS later.

 

Please explain why? What in your feeble mind changed other than what the idiot in charge who thinks we can go back to the James Polk era and that's a great idea for our future economy. 

Bahahahahahhahahahahah wrong.  Why do you think Trump is preaching Greenland to the Panama canal?    He understands the world is going to have three choices and Europe isn’t one of them. 
china

russia 

America 

Edited yesterday at 12:36 AM by JimmySpeaks

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Uncertainty is hard data.  Got it. 

You realize when you implement the tariffs, IT'S NOT UNCERTAINTY any longer, right?

Now you've set off a trade war and you're the first Nation to successful get Japan and CHINA and SOUTH KOREA to form an alliance.

 

Jesus...at this rate, we could get Israel and Palestine to unite against the US...(why do I suspect you have next to no understanding of why Japan, China+North Korea forming an alliance is unlikely). 

[JimmySpeaks]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Ok...so lets just cede our position as a world power and the largest economy to China. That is what we've done.

 

There's already been one. The last time someone was stupid enough to try this.

 

Who? I shudder to think what brilliant economic minds you watch that think across the board tariffs are a GOOD thing.

 

NOTHING CHANGED...you clown.

Things need to be updated? A trade agreement that was being adhered to.

 

And by the way, we have a trade SURPLUS with Canada when energy is taken out...and you've already made it clear you don't understand how the global energy supply works, but we get oil from Canada at a fixed price, the oil in Canada goes elsewhere at a fixed price, it's irrelevant where it's coming from, but we WANT low gas prices, right?

 

So NOTHING changes, the trade agreement works out(in the United States favor) and the same morons who believed that the OTHER Country pays the tariffs thinks the "greatest trade deal ever," needs to be re-worked 8 YEARS later.

 

Please explain why? What in your feeble mind changed other than what the idiot in charge who thinks we can go back to the James Polk era and that's a great idea for our future economy. 

Btw.  I love when you call me names.  Bahahahahahahhahaha. It tells me how this is going for you. 

[scourge165]

Just now, JimmySpeaks said:

Bahahahahahhahahahahah wrong.  Why do you think Trump is preaching Greenland to the Lana,a canal?    He understands the world is going to have three choices and Europe isn’t one of them. 
china

russia 

America 

Ok...that was your response to Canadian dairy tariffs that haven't been imposed and the trade surplus we have with Canada?

You came back with...Greenland and the "Lana,a canal?" I don't even know what "choices" you're talking about...

 

How is Russia one of those choices? LOL...it's China and then India. Those are the Countries that will pass up the US as the largest economy. 

 

This couldn't be playing into China's hands any more if we tried. 

[scourge165]

Just now, JimmySpeaks said:

Btw.  I love when you call me names.  Bahahahahahahhahaha. It tells me how this is going for you. 

Dude, after your last response rambling about Greenland when we were talking about the trade surplus of Canada...you're just going on ignore as I honestly think you lack the mental capacity to hold any type of coherent conversation. 

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, scourge165 said:

Ok...that was your response to Canadian dairy tariffs that haven't been imposed and the trade surplus we have with Canada?

You came back with...Greenland and the "Lana,a canal?" I don't even know what "choices" you're talking about...

 

How is Russia one of those choices? LOL...it's China and then India. Those are the Countries that will pass up the US as the largest economy. 

 

This couldn't be playing into China's hands any more if we tried. 

What do you think is going to happen when globalization happens?  Start there.  Who do you think will be in charge of North and South America?  China?  Bahahahhahahahaha

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, scourge165 said:

Dude, after your last response rambling about Greenland when we were talking about the trade surplus of Canada...you're just going on ignore as I honestly think you lack the mental capacity to hold any type of coherent conversation. 

I’m sorry you’re too short sighted to see what’s happening in the world right now. How trump slowed globalization to a halt.  I’m also sorry to see you don’t understand this is about globalization happening on Americas terms not Europe’s.  But ya I’m the dumb one. 

[JimmySpeaks]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Ok...that was your response to Canadian dairy tariffs that haven't been imposed and the trade surplus we have with Canada?

You came back with...Greenland and the "Lana,a canal?" I don't even know what "choices" you're talking about...

 

How is Russia one of those choices? LOL...it's China and then India. Those are the Countries that will pass up the US as the largest economy. 

 

This couldn't be playing into China's hands any more if we tried. 

China and India hate each other.  China would stop India before America based purely on geography.  

[scourge165]

Just now, JimmySpeaks said:

What do you think is going to happen when globalization happens?  Start there.  Who do you think will be in charge of North and South America?  China?  Bahahahhahahahaha

....did...did you seriously just ask me what I think will happen WHEN it happens?

You do know you can grab yourself a history book and learn as it's been happening for a VERY long time now. 

 

And no, I don't think China will be in "Charge" of North and South America...just as we're not "in charge" or Asia. I DO believe now that we're starting a tariff war with...THE WORLD we'll cease to be the largest economy...

I'd ask where you got "China will be in charge of North America," but I...just can't bring myself to care any longer...

[JimmySpeaks]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

....did...did you seriously just ask me what I think will happen WHEN it happens?

You do know you can grab yourself a history book and learn as it's been happening for a VERY long time now. 

 

And no, I don't think China will be in "Charge" of North and South America...just as we're not "in charge" or Asia. I DO believe now that we're starting a tariff war with...THE WORLD we'll cease to be the largest economy...

I'd ask where you got "China will be in charge of North America," but I...just can't bring myself to care any longer...

Please tell me how China is going to become the world’s largest economy because of tariffs.  I’ll wait patiently. China can’t feed itself 

Edited yesterday at 12:48 AM by JimmySpeaks

[JimmySpeaks]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

 

 

And no, I don't think 

Correct. 

[jross]

@scourge165 -- The problem with Canada's milk.

The agreement says Canada must let a certain amount of U.S. dairy at a low tariff (7.5%). This is the tariff-rate quota (TRQ). Anything over that gets hit with the 241% tariff. The quota is an agreement about volume, not about who handles it.  Canada controls the permits and gives them to its own processors, not U.S. entities.  Think about a chef with his own chicken farm.  Why is he going to hassle with importing cheap chickens from another country?  Canada gives the permits to processors that don't need US milk.  So yeah the US is not paying the 241% tariff but this is because Canada will not allow an open market for US milk. 

Does that help?

 

[JimmySpeaks]

11 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Dude, after your last response rambling about Greenland when we were talking about the trade surplus of Canada...you're just going on ignore as I honestly think you lack the mental capacity to hold any type of coherent conversation. 

The point (for slow people like you) is that Canada isn’t even worth worrying about.  There far bigger things going on right now. Like a great CEO, trumps making decisions that will pay off FOR AMERICA a decade from now. 

[red viking]

30 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

The point (for slow people like you) is that Canada isn’t even worth worrying about.  There far bigger things going on right now. Like a great CEO, trumps making decisions that will pay off FOR AMERICA a decade from now. 

You know absolutely nothing about economics. Like the other wingers, you believe this simply because trump tells you it's true, but he knows nothing about economics either. 

A) we actually export quite a bit, especially services, and those exports are paying dearly because other countries are not bending over for trump. Theyre retaliating.

B) other countries buy a lot of treasuries. They can dump them at any time. We're screwed if that happens. 

C) the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, but only because other countries allow it. They may change their mind. 

Other countries actually have a lot over us. 

We won't bully the rest of the world, not all at once. Hitler tried that too.  Gonna be a disaster. 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:27 AM by red viking

[JimmySpeaks]

2 minutes ago, red viking said:

You know absolutely nothing about economics. Like the other wingers, you believe this simply because trump tells you it's true, but he knows nothing about economics either. 

 

Trump hasn’t said anything other than he’s a nationalist. But good try winger sheeple. 

Edited yesterday at 01:26 AM by JimmySpeaks

[red viking]

2 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Trump hasn’t said anything other than he’s a nationalist. But good try winger sheeple. 

Yup. He's an idiot. 

[JimmySpeaks]

1 minute ago, red viking said:

Yup. He's an idiot. 

And as an idiot still better than the other option was 

[JimmySpeaks]

10 minutes ago, red viking said:

You know absolutely nothing about economics. Like the other wingers, you believe this simply because trump tells you it's true, but he knows nothing about economics either. 
I’ve forgotten more than you’ll ever know 

A) we actually export quite a bit, especially services, and those exports are paying dearly because other countries are not bending over for trump. Theyre retaliating.

ya the worlds largest economy usually does export a lot.  It’s why it’s the world’s largest economy.    Retaliating against the world’s largest economy.  Good luck  

B) other countries buy a lot of treasuries. They can dump them at any time. We're screwed if that happens. 
Please explain to us what they’re going to purchase that won’t cost them money   

C) the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, but only because other countries allow it. They may change their mind. 
Good luck   They will only kill themselves doing it.  It’s why Trump knows he’s in control..

Other countries actually have a lot over us. 
like what?   

We won't bully the rest of the world, not all at once. Hitler tried that too.  Gonna be a disaster

Hitler wasn’t in control of the world when he played his hand.   It’s why he lost   

 

[scourge165]

14 minutes ago, jross said:

@scourge165 -- The problem with Canada's milk.

The agreement says Canada must let a certain amount of U.S. dairy at a low tariff (7.5%). This is the tariff-rate quota (TRQ). Anything over that gets hit with the 241% tariff. The quota is an agreement about volume, not about who handles it.  Canada controls the permits and gives them to its own processors, not U.S. entities.  Think about a chef with his own chicken farm.  Why is he going to hassle with importing cheap chickens from another country?  Canada gives the permits to processors that don't need US milk.  So yeah the US is not paying the 241% tariff but this is because Canada will not allow an open market for US milk. 

Does that help?

 

Oh...is THAT the nuanced issue that was REALLY the issue when Trump claimed Canada puts a 270% tariff on American Milk?

And of COURSE Canada is going to prioritize it's own armers. The US still sells an enormous amount of dairy to Canada each year and that number has gone up 67% since 2020.

So one would think

1-Saying there's a 270% tariff on Milk(which is inaccurate, but lets give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was wrong rather than lying) is at the VERY least intellectually dishonest...assuming he's capable of the intellectual prowess of understanding the larger issue. I genuinely don't believe he is.

2-...the US is selling significantly MORE dairy in Canada. Here's a shock, the US has also issues it's own permits to do business.

 

3-Finally...since this is meant to be for the GOOD of the American people(and the Canadian Dairy issue REALLY an insignificant aspect of this and never cited as the actual reason) but...the US exports ~85 BILLION DOLLARS worth of agricultural goods to Mexico, Canada and China. 

 

If this was the reason behind the tariffs...and of COURSE it's not, we do the same things, we've done them with Steel among other things, but why not a targeted tariff?

 

It's across the board tariffs that have taken what was a RAGING economy, one growing at over 3% with the CPI down to 2.5%, unemployment in the 3%s.

 

Is there ANY scenario in which this is better for the United States than paying the 4% interest rates on the 10 year that are coming due this year rather than 2.5%? And that's if you were to get Powell and company to agree to 150 basis points this year?

This is a deliberate recession ENTIRELY due to the 10 year T-Bills and...it's going to cause irreparable harm. Well, maybe not irreparable. Last time we got through it...it did take a war with the Nazis, but we got through it eventually and then the 1950s saw the top  marginal tax bracket in the 90s so they could service the debt. 

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Ok...that was your response to Canadian dairy tariffs that haven't been imposed and the trade surplus we have with Canada?

We don’t have a trade surplus with Canada   

You came back with...Greenland and the "Lana,a canal?" I don't even know what "choices" you're talking about...

Go back and read it again  I typed it slow just for you  

How is Russia one of those choices? LOL...it's China and then India. Those are the Countries that will pass up the US as the largest economy. 

How is Russia NOT ONE OF THE CHOICES?  They still have the second largest nuclear arsenal..  again  

This couldn't be playing into China's hands any more if we tried. 
Democrats (progressives) want to be China soooooooo

 

[Scouts Honor]

we ceded everything to china years ago

starting with companies like nike

[scourge165]

19 minutes ago, red viking said:

You know absolutely nothing about economics. Like the other wingers, you believe this simply because trump tells you it's true, but he knows nothing about economics either. 

A) we actually export quite a bit, especially services, and those exports are paying dearly because other countries are not bending over for trump. Theyre retaliating.

B) other countries buy a lot of treasuries. They can dump them at any time. We're screwed if that happens. 

C) the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, but only because other countries allow it. They may change their mind. 

Other countries actually have a lot over us. 

We won't bully the rest of the world, not all at once. Hitler tried that too.  Gonna be a disaster. 

 

LOL...I couldn't even read it.

These people aren't going to understand the absolute unmitigated disaster this is(some may, Jross may be smart enough, I don't know) until it's too late, but we did just go to war with the whole world assuming they'd ALL blink. 

 

But yes, it is the United States...vs the World. 

We're uniting Countries that don't just dislike each other, they absolutely DESPITE each other. I don't know if there's another two countries who hate each other as much as Japan and North Korea save for Japan and China(and Japan...kinda earned that with their denialism but that's for another topic). 

 

If you don't see those countries lining up against the US along with ALL of Europe, North America, South America...and think 'nah, it's a good thing to do the one thing that led to the LAST great depresion and will invariably cost consumers more because Trump said so,' then...you lack all critical thinking.

 

My guess is when he sees what a disaster this is, he starts to walk them back. He did exclude Semiconductors(so thanks for that Elon...the one thing I kept was NVDA as I've owned it long enough that my DCA is under 6 a share). 

[scourge165]

Just now, Scouts Honor said:

we ceded everything to china years ago

starting with companies like nike

Yes...except...ya know, the company and the PROFITS which stay in the United States. But sure, short of that, we ceded them the extraordinarily low skilled labor it takes to make their products. 

 

Jesus...imagine complaining we gave away the sweetshops to China?

[scourge165]

30 minutes ago, red viking said:

Yup. He's an idiot. 

Trump has said almost everything. 

At some point, almost everything has spilled out of his mouth during his long, senseless diatribes. 

 

Again, best case, after the market is in crash territory(which will be early tomorrow) and people are real pissed, his approval rating back in the low 30s, unemployment rising, then he'll start rolling this back as he gets some token concessions and he'll claim victory.