Any chance Arnold actually wrestles Plott?

[Gene Mills Fan]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

How would Arnold feel knowing his coaches don't believe he's even the best 184 pounder on the team?  Ego is very important to Arnold, hence all the trash talking of Starocci.

I think Arnold knows where he stands, he and Angelo are in the same room.  

Edited Tuesday at 03:55 PM by Gene Mills Fan

[Tyler]

I cant see Arnold going. Tom said they’d use all of Ferraris dates. He has one left. I think Angelo gives Iowa their best shot to beat Okie State 

[Gus]

2 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

I think Arnold knows where he stands, he and Angelo are in the same room.  

Exactly. If he is getting beat in the room it's no mystery to him.

[okokzach]

25 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

The same Dustin Plott who is 0-5 vs Keckeisen by a combined score of 63-23 with the closest loss being 8-3? Beating Plott, even if convincingly does NOT mean Ferrari is ready to contend for a title "NOW". 

This argument makes no sense. Keckeisen is a title contender. It's absurd to say otherwise. So if Ferrari beats Plott in a fashion similar to Keckeisen, then he can reasonably be considered a title contender. No one besides Keckeisen has beat Plott since 2023

[Gene Mills Fan]

2 minutes ago, okokzach said:

This argument makes no sense. Keckeisen is a title contender. It's absurd to say otherwise. So if Ferrari beats Plott in a fashion similar to Keckeisen, then he can reasonably be considered a title contender. No one besides Keckeisen has beat Plott since 2023

There's the other guy in a Penn State singlet !      Angelo so far has only shown, if he can slow them down he's close.

[okokzach]

5 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

There's the other guy in a Penn State singlet !      Angelo so far has only shown, if he can slow them down he's close.

There can be more than two guys who are considered title contenders... So far Ferrari has shown he can keep Starocci from getting a takedown. If he then shows he has the offense to beat Plott convincingly, then of course he should be considered a title contender 

Edited Tuesday at 04:10 PM by okokzach

[666]

14 minutes ago, okokzach said:

This argument makes no sense. Keckeisen is a title contender. It's absurd to say otherwise. So if Ferrari beats Plott in a fashion similar to Keckeisen, then he can reasonably be considered a title contender. No one besides Keckeisen has beat Plott since 2023

Plott has never wrestled Starocci, to my knowledge. I think Starocci would beat Plott, possibly by bonus, but I also think Plott's awkward style might work pretty well against Starocci, at least the first time they wrestle. 

[Greenwave]

No

[Winners Circle]

33 minutes ago, okokzach said:

This argument makes no sense. Keckeisen is a title contender. It's absurd to say otherwise. So if Ferrari beats Plott in a fashion similar to Keckeisen, then he can reasonably be considered a title contender. No one besides Keckeisen has beat Plott since 2023

The transitive property doesn't always apply in wrestling. Just because Ferrari beats Plott in a similar fashion to Keck, doesn't put him on the same level as Keck. Period. 

I used my statistics to prove that Plott is not a title contender. So Ferrari beating him, even if convincingly so, doesn't make Ferrari a title contender.

[Elevator]

1 hour ago, 666 said:

If he's ready let him have his chance, provided he's actually the best guy at the weight. But it won't make any difference at NCAAs. Iowa is destined to finish 2nd, Ferrari or no Ferrari. 

2nd ish?  Ceiling is 2nd.   Iowa should be content with 2nd as its ceiling, if it is being realistic.

[okokzach]

3 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

The transitive property doesn't always apply in wrestling. Just because Ferrari beats Plott in a similar fashion to Keck, doesn't put him on the same level as Keck. Period. 

I used my statistics to prove that Plott is not a title contender. So Ferrari beating him, even if convincingly so, doesn't make Ferrari a title contender.

All your"statistics" (lol) proved was that Keckeisen clearly has Plott's number. Plott has cleared the rest of the field pretty convincingly. Only two guys can ultimately contend for the title. Majoring Plott and keeping Starocci from scoring on you puts you in the conversation

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, okokzach said:

All your"statistics" (lol) proved was that Keckeisen clearly has Plott's number. Plott has cleared the rest of the field pretty convincingly. Only two guys can ultimately contend for the title. Majoring Plott and keeping Starocci from scoring on you puts you in the conversation

1. Those are the facts that I provided. Lmao

2. Yes, Plott is clearly better than everyone who is not a title contender. He is the best of the non title contenders. He is tier 2 by himself. 

3. Correct. At this weight #1&2 have separated from everyone else. Which is why Plott is not a title contender. 

4. Doing everything you can to lose close (not win) does not make you a title contender.

[okokzach]

1 minute ago, Winners Circle said:

1. Those are the facts that I provided. Lmao

You typed their win-loss record and were able to add up their point totals. Terry Tao would be impressed!

[1032004]

1 hour ago, 666 said:

I think I may buck the trend here. The way I see it Arnold has more to gain from wrestling Plott than to lose. Plott is already the favorite, so if Arnold loses respectably no harm, no foul. Another "L" shouldn't matter if it comes to a top 4 guy like Plott. On the other hand if Arnold beats Plott he gains a good bit I'd think. I've seen guys stifle Plott's offense, and Arnold is a stallmaster type guy. If he can keep it close he might be able to steal a win at the buzzer with a takedown. 

Ferrari wouldn't be a terrible choice provided he doesn't have to burn a redshirt to wrestle Plott. I think he could hold Plott to a decision and possibly even beat him outright. The match could give Ferrari some more experience wrestling a top D1 guy. But I think the possible upside to Arnold's possible seed upgrade at NCAAs is more important than Ferrari getting more experience. Let's face it, he has 4 years ahead of him and he'll probably make the high podium all 4 years. If Arnold is beat up of course Ferrari should start to let him rest up. 

Good point.  I’d lean it’s going to be Ferrari if I had to guess since Brands said he’d use all his dates and “not against cupcakes,” but he may have planned to do that before Arnold lost to Allred.  

[PNWfan]

4 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

1. Those are the facts that I provided. Lmao

2. Yes, Plott is clearly better than everyone who is not a title contender. He is the best of the non title contenders. He is tier 2 by himself. 

3. Correct. At this weight #1&2 have separated from everyone else. Which is why Plott is not a title contender. 

4. Doing everything you can to lose close (not win) does not make you a title contender.

Disagree on point 2. I would put McEnelly in that category and think he can beat Plott. Sure, Arnold took him to OT, but Arnold is difficult to score on and has a style that lends itself to close matches.

Edited Tuesday at 04:54 PM by PNWfan

[Winners Circle]

Just now, okokzach said:

You typed their win-loss record and were able to add up their point totals. Terry Tao would be impressed!

Did you want me to add that he's been majored 3/5 times? Or that he's scored a combined 3 total offensive points in 5 matches? These are all true. 

[Richferg]

I have only seen Ferrari once, but have seen Arnold 6x. Neither one of them shows any great offensive abilities. Arnold goes to SV every match at 1-1. He only beat Rogotzke because the buckeye threw a pretty inadvisable Greco move. You can keep a match close, and look pretty good if you can hide your stalling. But you can’t stall your way thru NCAA’s and contend for a title. Just ask Alex Marinelli. 

[666]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

maybe the dual should start at 197

Can you imagine Surber funking his way to a fluke pin over Buchanon? Gallagher Hall would go bananas. 

[Dogbone]

52 minutes ago, okokzach said:

There can be more than two guys who are considered title contenders...

Yes, there can be more than two title contenders but there is not at 184 this season.   I'm sorry, Plott is very good and in a different year or weight class he has the ability to win a NC, but he is just level below the top two guys.     

Edited Tuesday at 05:02 PM by Dogbone

[okokzach]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Did you want me to add that he's been majored 3/5 times? Or that he's scored a combined 3 total offensive points in 5 matches? These are all true. 

Woah impressive statistical analysis.

You're too thick to realize you're not proving anything about Ferrari, which is the topic of the argument. You're only showing that Keckeisen is a level above Plott, which no one is arguing. No one is saying Plott is a title contender this year.

You already said that Plott is a level above everyone except for Carter and Keck. Your quote was that Plott is "tier 2 by himself" So if Ferrari shows himself to be a level above Plott... that puts him up with the title contenders. 

[okokzach]

2 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Yes, there can be more than two title contenders but there is not at 184 this season.   I'm sorry, Plott is very good and in a different year or weight class he has the ability to win a NC, but he is just level below the top two guys.     

Yes, I agree. I wasn't talking about Plott. I'm saying if Ferrari majors Plott, he should be in the conversation of title contender. 

[Winners Circle]

2 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Woah impressive statistical analysis.

You're too thick to realize you're not proving anything about Ferrari, which is the topic of the argument. You're only showing that Keckeisen is a level above Plott, which no one is arguing. No one is saying Plott is a title contender this year.

You already said that Plott is a level above everyone except for Carter and Keck. Your quote was that Plott is "tier 2 by himself" So if Ferrari shows himself to be a level above Plott... that puts him up with the title contenders. 

Not true. If you're running a race and you're in 4th place, if you pass the person in 3rd place, you are now in 3rd place, NOT 2nd. That is this situation. If Ferrari beats Plott, that does not catapult him into tier 1 because Plott is NOT tier 1 himself. All that would prove is that Ferrari is tier 2 by himself and Plott would be tier 3 by himself. 

[Dogbone]

4 minutes ago, okokzach said:

Yes, I agree. I wasn't talking about Plott. I'm saying if Ferrari majors Plott, he should be in the conversation of title contender. 

That is where I disagree.  Majoring Plott just means he is the contender at the 2nd level of 184 (3rd place). It does not mean anything with regards to his ability to beat the other 2. 

[PNWfan]

13 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

That is where I disagree.  Majoring Plott just means he is the contender at the 2nd level of 184 (3rd place). It does not mean anything with regards to his ability to beat the other 2. 

Correct. Starocci and Keckeisen are in a different tier, beating Plott soundly does not move Ferrari into that tier, nor should it.

Edited Tuesday at 05:23 PM by PNWfan

[BloodRound]

1 hour ago, BarSeries said:

But Arnold seems incredibly sensitive to taking L's.

After seeing the reaction to losing to McEnelly, I am curious to see how Gabe would've reacted to a beating from Starocci