Iowa developing talent

[Hammerlock3]

5 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I was more referring to the best program at developing talent.

this isn't that topic, this is the "Iowa sucks" topic.

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

Ohio State picked up the #1, 2 and 3 a couple years ago, actually.


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They REALLY don't develop talent. 

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Not an answer, more so commentary on Desanto and he was generally loved by the community until that moment. After that everyone rooted against him at NCAAs.. 

hmmm i wonder what happened that made everyone dislike Desanto so much in the blink of an eye. RBY breaking him and making him quit-cry a few years later was just *delicious* comeuppance. I think even Micic was a Nittany Lion on that day.

[BruceyB]

41 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

They REALLY don't develop talent. 

Last year tOSU had a true sophomore national champion, true freshman finalist, and freshman that took 5th at 285 behind 4 seniors. That is a very promising step.

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Last year tOSU had a true sophomore national champion, true freshman finalist, and freshman that took 5th at 285 behind 4 seniors. That is a very promising step.

no its not they all peak as freshmen

i didn't say they couldn't recruit

Edited January 20 by Hammerlock3

[RawDog]

I don't understand why people are complaining about Iowa and Ohio State coaching. Those are the only two teams to win a title outside of Penn State in over a decade. They consistently put out competitive teams every year. We should be complaining about Michigan State and Wisconsin coaching. These are big ten schools with big ten budgets and they can't seem to coach a single competitive wrestler.

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, RawDog said:

I don't understand why people are complaining about Iowa and Ohio State coaching. Those are the only two teams to win a title outside of Penn State in over a decade. They consistently put out competitive teams every year. We should be complaining about Michigan State and Wisconsin coaching. These are big ten schools with big ten budgets and they can't seem to coach a single competitive wrestler.

this is a great point while also missing the point. When we argue about Iowa and tOSU we are doing fan mentality hair splitting, which is what we are here for, talks about the shortcomings of inconsequential programs are more closely tied to the problems the sport faces as a whole...and therefore difficult dreary and not that fun. 

[BruceyB]

4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

When we argue about Iowa and tOSU we are doing fan mentality hair splitting

I'm glad we're on the same page. 

 

26 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

no its not they all peak as freshmen

Who? Other than Tomasello and Myles Martin, placed higher their freshman year than in years following? I literally can't think of one.

NaTo also went from 5 losses his freshman year to losing 4 more matches in his career, 2 of which were to Spencer.

Myles Martin was an 11 seed that went on a crazy run his freshman year, and then went on to be the heavy favorite going into NCAAs as a senior.

BoJo was a finalist as a junior.

Micah was a finalist as a senior.

Snyder lost in the finals as a freshman before winning 3.

Logan Steiber got more dominant each year other than the Zane loss.

Sasso went 2, 5, 2 before the incident.

Ethan Smith's best year was in his 3rd year.

Kaleb Romero went R16, R12, 6th, 3rd

Kollin Moore went 3, 4, 2, and undefeated in 2020

Luke Pletcher went R16, 4th, 4th, and he was going to be the #1 seed in 2020 after he beat Nick Lee in the B10 finals.

Hunter Steiber went from 6th to 3rd (#1 seed) before injuries ruined his final two years.

All of their wrestlers peak as freshman?

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

This is awesome. I was hoping you would pull something like this in. I always find these interesting.

Without a doubt Iowa has been the most consistent program during the Cael era, as shown above. But I was more referring to the best program at developing talent. I wasn't even stating that they weren't. I'm just questioning the attitude that Iowa is clearly doing the best in development outside of Penn State and it's forbidden to question the TnT regime.

I just think that if your team is not getting better, than you are either complacent with where you are at, think that it's just a temporary lull, or you should make a change. If I'm an Iowa fan, what has happened in the last 15 years to make me think we're getting better?

If you have the time, I'd be interested to see (starting with the Gable era) a graph of how many NCAA champions Iowa has produced over the years. I can't imagine anyone from the Gable era would be satisfied if you told them they were going to have 4 wrestlers become national champions over the course of 15 years. AAs shouldn't be the standard for Iowa, becoming a National Champion should.

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I'm glad we're on the same page. 

 

Who? Other than Tomasello and Myles Martin, placed higher their freshman year than in years following? I literally can't think of one.

NaTo also went from 5 losses his freshman year to losing 4 more matches in his career, 2 of which were to Spencer.

Myles Martin was an 11 seed that went on a crazy run his freshman year, and then went on to be the heavy favorite going into NCAAs as a senior.

BoJo was a finalist as a junior.

Micah was a finalist as a senior.

Snyder lost in the finals as a freshman before winning 3.

Logan Steiber got more dominant each year other than the Zane loss.

Sasso went 2, 5, 2 before the incident.

Ethan Smith's best year was in his 3rd year.

Kaleb Romero went R16, R12, 6th, 3rd

Kollin Moore went 3, 4, 2, and undefeated in 2020

Luke Pletcher went R16, 4th, 4th, and he was going to be the #1 seed in 2020 after he beat Nick Lee in the B10 finals.

Hunter Steiber went from 6th to 3rd (#1 seed) before injuries ruined his final two years.

All of their wrestlers peak as freshman?

 

you're trying to leverage the fact that people graduate as improvement. only exception on the list is romero, snyder who they made go the wrong weight and stieber. But if you watch stieber's flo film he talks about how he used to skip practice and float off the last few pounds of his cut, which is incompetent coaching so I'm hard pressed to give the staff credit for him. 

[BruceyB]

8 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

So multiple NCAA champions in 15 season during Gables 21 years and its happened twice during the Brands 18 years? And 0 times in the last 15 years. Got it.

By the way, you are the man.

[BruceyB]

6 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

you're trying to leverage the fact that people graduate as improvement

If we aren't talking about wrestlers improving their results year over year, how on Earth do you suppose we measure development? I don't even understand.

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

If we aren't talking about wrestlers improving their results year over year, how on Earth do you suppose we measure development? I don't even understand.

Yeah fair enough, what if I said we're talking about reconciling our perceptions of their overall quality as wrestlers over time? You'd probably say thats an impossible conversation to ground appropriately, which is true, and I'd counter by repeating that sense results naturally trend upward (because people graduating is a factor), you providing mild evidence of an upward trend when it should be extreme is not convincing at all, and then we would repeat the process. 

I'll sigbet you on the placements of Mendes feldman and Bouzakis? voided by injury