Which Penn State wrestlers will be undefeated going into NCAAs?

[nhs67]

23 minutes ago, Caveira said:

 No I’m using a Cstar ducked Griffith thread.  Which Cstar did.   He was healthy.  He was in the building and he didn’t go.   And then he talked shyte after.   

Find one that isn't a Jimmy trollthread and you might have legs to stand on.

Otherwise your logic has basically zero legs to stand on.

[JeanGuy]

For whatever reason Sanderson seems to like to keep guys between 15 and 20 matches in the regular season. He isn't interested in seeing guy wrestle 35-40 matches a season. There does seem to be a downward progression in his thought process. Taylor and Ruth wrestled 137 and 139 matches respectively. Move to Nickal and he was at 123 matches. Now you look at guys like RBY going down to 111 and then Brooks at 92.

I don't know if it is ducking or just philosophy one what is the right number of matches for a guy.

[Hank]

ducking doesnt mean you were afraid of the opponent or that you think you'd lose the match.  it just means you skipped the match even tho you weren't hurt/sick.  

i would be curious to see the match count for the psu #1 ranked wrestlers.  b/c over the past few years it does seem like they're just wrestling the minimum for qualification.

also, gable beats kerk

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 minutes ago, JeanGuy said:

For whatever reason Sanderson seems to like to keep guys between 15 and 20 matches in the regular season. He isn't interested in seeing guy wrestle 35-40 matches a season. There does seem to be a downward progression in his thought process. Taylor and Ruth wrestled 137 and 139 matches respectively. Move to Nickal and he was at 123 matches. Now you look at guys like RBY going down to 111 and then Brooks at 92.

I don't know if it is ducking or just philosophy one what is the right number of matches for a guy.

Brooks at 92 with five seasons.  (No nationals in 2020, and a shortened 2021)

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Not what he said.

Who cares who started the thread.   In theory only thing is did he duck. I think he did.   I know psu fans think he didn’t.  
 

and it goes round and round.   Life as we know it at the water cooler.  

[Winners Circle]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Spencer Lee won a title on "zero legs" and two years later he was pinned by a guy who DNP the next year.  (and Griffith was hurt at nationals too, as was Mekhi)

Spencer Lee didn't duck anyone, and neither did Starocci. The result of the match is not what's in question here. It's whether or not a 4x NC ducks people. 

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Spencer Lee didn't duck anyone, and neither did Starocci. The result of the match is not what's in question here. It's whether or not a 4x NC ducks people. 

I guess why wrestle the matches then.   The premise that the higher ranked dude can’t duck is like saying you can’t be racist if you’re a minority.   
 

the argument is silly imo.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

Spencer Lee didn't duck anyone, and neither did Starocci. The result of the match is not what's in question here. It's whether or not a 4x NC ducks people. 

Your OP said he won nationals with one leg.  I compared him to someone with no legs who won, only to lose the next year.

Also there is no way that the PSU staff KNEW he was going to beat Griffith during the dual.  Nationals came AFTER the duck.  They had some good evidence only after hurt Carter beat hurt Griffith.

People DO lose matches.  Brooks did lose a match to ISU his 4th year.  I don't think Carter was necessarily "afraid," but I do think the staff sometimes makes decisions to minimize any risk to their athlete's seed.

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Caveira said:

I guess why wrestle the matches then.   The premise that the higher ranked dude can’t duck is like saying you can’t be racist if you’re a minority.   
 

the argument is silly imo.  

When/where did I say the higher ranked dude can't duck? I'm just saying the three examples given (Spencer Lee, Starocci, and Brooks) are inaccurate. Those three guys have never been scared to wrestle anyone. 

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Your OP said he won nationals with one leg.  I compared him to someone with no legs who won, only to lose the next year.

Also there is no way that the PSU staff KNEW he was going to beat Griffith during the dual.  Nationals came AFTER the duck.  They had some good evidence only after hurt Carter beat hurt Griffith.

People DO lose matches.  Brooks did lose a match to ISU his 4th year.  I don't think Carter was necessarily "afraid," but I do think the staff sometimes makes decisions to minimize any risk to their athlete's seed.

I am 100% sure that the PSU staff knew Starocci would beat Griffith. I am certain they are 100% sure he will win every time he takes the mat. 

Right, and he DID NOT duck Coleman in that match.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

I am 100% sure that the PSU staff knew Starocci would beat Griffith. I am certain they are 100% sure he will win every time he takes the mat. 

Right, and he DID NOT duck Coleman in that match.

Was PSU staff 100% sure Brooks would beat Coleman?

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Was PSU staff 100% sure Brooks would beat Coleman?

Yes I am sure they, in no way shape or form, saw him losing that match. Which is why it was a massive upset.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Winners Circle said:

Yes I am sure they, in no way shape or form, saw him losing that match. Which is why it was a massive upset.

But but but they were 100% sure he would win!

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

But but but they were 100% sure he would win!

Before the match started I am sure they were 100% confident he would win, yes.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

Before the match started I am sure they were 100% confident he would win, yes.

Stuff happens.  They were wrong.

I believe that Brooks is better than Starocci.  I believe that Griffith is better than Coleman.

What is Carter has the sniffles and his core temp is .1 degree above normal?  I don't think it is worth the risk.

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, Winners Circle said:

Yes I am sure they, in no way shape or form, saw him losing that match. Which is why it was a massive upset.

As they say in poker.  You can’t lose what you don’t put in the middle.  
 

every 3 timer.   That isn’t a 4 timer proves that you can’t say cause they’re super good They can’t duck.   You can’t use a moniker like a 4x champ because they weren’t a 4x champ till they won their 4th.    It’s a nonsense argument imo that fear needs to be a part of it.  

maybe they (psu) don’t want their decent competition to get more than one crack at them to come up with a better strategy of what works well vs what didn’t…. Which is a form of ducking…. Psu seems to sit favorites more than underdogs for possibly this precise reason.    Kirk v cass.   Rby v desanto come to mind   

who thought the 1980 USA hockey team would beat Russia after losing like 50-0 a few weeks prior or whatever that was.   

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Stuff happens.  They were wrong.

I believe that Brooks is better than Starocci.  I believe that Griffith is better than Coleman.

What is Carter has the sniffles and his core temp is .1 degree above normal?  I don't think it is worth the risk.

THE RESULT IS NOT WHAT IS IN QUESTION. It's whether or not Starocci ducked.

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

THE RESULT IS NOT WHAT IS IN QUESTION. It's whether or not Starocci ducked.

It’s pretty obvious he did. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

THE RESULT IS NOT WHAT IS IN QUESTION. It's whether or not Starocci ducked.

Was he there?  Did he wrestle Griffith?

[Winners Circle]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

As they say in poker.  You can’t lose what you don’t put in the middle.  
 

every 3 timer.   That isn’t a 4 timer proves that you can’t say cause they’re super good They can’t duck.   You can’t use a moniker like a 4x champ because they weren’t a 4x champ till they won their 4th.    It’s a nonsense argument imo that fear needs to be a part of it.  

maybe they (psu) don’t want their decent competition to get more than one crack at them to come up with a better strategy of what works well vs what didn’t…. Which is a form of ducking…. Psu seems to sit favorites more than underdogs for possibly this precise reason.    Kirk v cass.   Rby v desanto come to mind   

who thought the 1980 USA hockey team would beat Russia after losing like 50-0 a few weeks prior or whatever that was.   

So you think fear doesn't need to be a part of ducking. But then your next sentence you say that the staff doesn't want their competition to be able to figure them out. Wouldn't that be because of fear of being figured out?

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Caveira said:

It’s pretty obvious he did. 

He very clearly said he wasn't 100%. Which was evidence by him also not wrestling Michigan State two days later.

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Was he there?  Did he wrestle Griffith?

He was not 100%, so he sat. Not a duck.

[Caveira]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

So you think fear doesn't need to be a part of ducking. But then your next sentence you say that the staff doesn't want their competition to be able to figure them out. Wouldn't that be because of fear of being figured out?

Ok.  Whatever man.   He ducked.   Move on.  He’s also talented too.    So what.   
 

somehow your not a psu fan.  I barely / don’t believe that fwiw.   

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Caveira said:

Ok.  Whatever man.   He ducked.   Move on.  He’s also talented too.    So what.   
 

somehow your not a psu fan.  I barely / don’t believe that fwiw.   

Your opinion on the "duck" and your opinion on my fandom. All good.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Winners Circle said:

He very clearly said he wasn't 100%. Which was evidence by him also not wrestling Michigan State two days later.

He was not 100%, so he sat. Not a duck.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, Caveira said:

As they say in poker.  You can’t lose what you don’t put in the middle.  
 

every 3 timer.   That isn’t a 4 timer proves that you can’t say cause they’re super good They can’t duck.   You can’t use a moniker like a 4x champ because they weren’t a 4x champ till they won their 4th.    It’s a nonsense argument imo that fear needs to be a part of it.  

maybe they (psu) don’t want their decent competition to get more than one crack at them to come up with a better strategy of what works well vs what didn’t…. Which is a form of ducking…. Psu seems to sit favorites more than underdogs for possibly this precise reason.    Kirk v cass.   Rby v desanto come to mind   

who thought the 1980 USA hockey team would beat Russia after losing like 50-0 a few weeks prior or whatever that was.   

Also used evidence from beating a hurt Griffith months later at NCAA as to why it wasn't a duck.  D