Kerk competing in Craig jones invite what does that mean + other wrestlers

[Truzzcat]

I saw Kerk was competing first thought was (this guy has quite the injury history why is he doing high level bjj) and then it made me wonder if his results at the trials made him think about moving on from wrestling. I could certainly be looking too much into it.

wrestlers competing and r1 matchups 

Nolf vs Tye ruotolo: Tye is probably a top 5 p4p guy in the sport so this is going to be a tall task for Jason. Im unfamiliar if this is no time limit sub only or points like adcc's I think both give Jason paths but they both involve dominating with his wrestling and Tye getting tired.

Pat downey vs Luke rockhold: Luke is a very very good grappler and hes a big human Idk how pd3's bjj is I know gordon Ryan subbed him pretty fast but Luke is not gordon

Greg vs Andrew Felipe: Felipe is an absolute animal but hes a lot smaller

Ill include the bjj hero profiles for the guys that don't follow much to take a gander at

https://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/fellipe-andrew#:~:text=Fellipe Andrew Silva is a,years%2C where he gained notoriety.

https://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/tye-ruotolo

 

[juniorvarsity]

I do not fully understand the rules to give good commentary on Bolt, Kerkvliet, and Downey on the tournament. I do think it is advantageous for the MMA scoring approach that is being used. I can imagine that they all will be abke to score a takedown and then stall on top/ let their opponent escape to their feet and repeat. 

I would imagine most of their opponents will pull guard, but I am unsure if they will get a caution for pulling.

Anyone know the scoring system?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Nolf and Kerk will likely lose in the first round.  Wrestling is very different from grappling.  Both guys probably get leglocked in under 2 minutes imo.

[Richard Mann]

I talked about the rules here. There is a link to the full rules document as well 
 

 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Nolf and Kerk will likely lose in the first round.  Wrestling is very different from grappling.  Both guys probably get leglocked in under 2 minutes imo.

Jason Nolf (+700) vs. Tye Ryotolo (-1000)

In the first round of the under 80 kg division, Nolf will take on perhaps the tournament favorite in Tye Ruotolo. Back in June, Nolf made his grappling debut against former NAIA All-American Andrew Simmons. The former Penn State wrestler scored an early takedown and eventually worked his way into a match-ending arm-triangle choke. While that was a solid dip into the pond, he will be jumping into the deep end at CJI.

Ruotolo is only 21 years old, but he has already put together an extensive resume highlighted by a bronze medal-winning performance at the 2022 edition of ADCC. He is also the current ONE Championship welterweight submission grappling world champion. 

 

Daniel Kerkvliet (+350) vs. Fellipe Andrew (-450)

In his grappling debut, Kerkvliet will face off against the 2023 IBJJF world champion Fellipe Andrew. The IBJJF, which stands for International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation, world event is considered the pinnacle of GI grappling. Andrew won the tournament in the under 94 kg division and followed that up with another victory at the 2024 Pan American Championships. Since losing to Rayron Gracie earlier this year, Andrew has gone on a 12-match winning streak that includes a submission victory over Anderson Munis less than 20 days ago.

Edited August 15 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[fishbane]

3 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

Pat downey vs Luke rockhold: Luke is a very very good grappler and hes a big human Idk how pd3's bjj is I know gordon Ryan subbed him pretty fast but Luke is not gordon

I thought Downey tapped due to exhaustion which at the conditioning level we saw at the Olympic Trials might be pretty fast this match was back in 2020.  It was like 15 minutes into a no time limit match.  Probably the worst possible rules for a match with a wrestler against Gordon.

[Richard Mann]

14 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I thought Downey tapped due to exhaustion which at the conditioning level we saw at the Olympic Trials might be pretty fast this match was back in 2020.  It was like 15 minutes into a no time limit match.  Probably the worst possible rules for a match with a wrestler against Gordon.

Rockhold might be shot at this point. I would not be surprised if Downey won

[pokemonster]

Gotta imagine they're in it for the bag, yeah?

[meZYNbrink]

5 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

I do not fully understand the rules to give good commentary on Bolt, Kerkvliet, and Downey on the tournament. I do think it is advantageous for the MMA scoring approach that is being used. I can imagine that they all will be abke to score a takedown and then stall on top/ let their opponent escape to their feet and repeat. 

I would imagine most of their opponents will pull guard, but I am unsure if they will get a caution for pulling.

Anyone know the scoring system?

Preliminary rounds are 3 rounds with judges scoring (similar to UFC but with scores announced publicly prior to the next round). Championship bouts are 5 rounds with the same judges scoring. Much more subjective than ADCC and definitely moreso than IBJJF. 

[meZYNbrink]

Nolf vs Ty is a really bad matchup for Jason. I don't think he'll get this one out. PD3 almost certainly going to run into problems with Rockhold. All accounts is that his grappling is world class. I seem to remember a video of PD3 lasting a while with Gordon, but could be wrong. Out of all the wrestlers, I think Kerk has the best chance to do damage. I did see a picture of him in the gi last year and it looked comical, not that swag has anything to do with performance. Now I just wish the grappling community could get his freaking name right.

[Sheerstress]

2 hours ago, fishbane said:

I thought Downey tapped due to exhaustion which at the conditioning level we saw at the Olympic Trials might be pretty fast this match was back in 2020.  It was like 15 minutes into a no time limit match.  Probably the worst possible rules for a match with a wrestler against Gordon.

 

[Richard Mann]

56 minutes ago, meZYNbrink said:

Preliminary rounds are 3 rounds with judges scoring (similar to UFC but with scores announced publicly prior to the next round). Championship bouts are 5 rounds with the same judges scoring. Much more subjective than ADCC and definitely moreso than IBJJF. 

It could get really wacky, because the referee can give negative points for stalling and other penalties, so we could see 9-8 rounds or something. 

[1032004]

I hope Kerk wins so we can see if he’ll say “it doesn’t matter” when he gets interviewed after 

[Jim L]

13 hours ago, meZYNbrink said:

Preliminary rounds are 3 rounds with judges scoring (similar to UFC but with scores announced publicly prior to the next round). Championship bouts are 5 rounds with the same judges scoring. Much more subjective than ADCC and definitely moreso than IBJJF. 

I don't think wrestlers stand a chance with this rules set. Solid takedowns are not that impressive in the BJJ world. No sure how a high level wrestler looks impressive enough in the eyes of a BJJ judge to win a round.

I don't how you judge a round where a wrestler score a basic TD and then is trapped in the guard and is able to avoid a submission for the rest of the round.

Also, I think there  is close to zero chance a high level grappler gets submitted by a wrestler while the wrestle is always at risks being put n an unfamiliar position and submitted.

[wrestle87]

There's a million dollar prize to win, and you get $10K just for stepping on the mats.  It's an easy, rather lucrative day for both of them.  

Also, keep in mind they will be employing the same skillset as one of craig jones' main training partners.  Wrestling and the ability to control top position will definitely be given weight.  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Nolf, while the better scrambler, is probably going to do worse than Kerk because he's facing the #1 guy in his category.  Kerk may also have a size advantage over his opponent.

[meZYNbrink]

4 hours ago, Jim L said:

I don't think wrestlers stand a chance with this rules set. Solid takedowns are not that impressive in the BJJ world. No sure how a high level wrestler looks impressive enough in the eyes of a BJJ judge to win a round.

I don't how you judge a round where a wrestler score a basic TD and then is trapped in the guard and is able to avoid a submission for the rest of the round.

Also, I think there  is close to zero chance a high level grappler gets submitted by a wrestler while the wrestle is always at risks being put n an unfamiliar position and submitted.

I think this scenario would be scored in favor of the wrestler, but it would be nice if the scoring emphases would be released prior to the tournament.

[Jim L]

34 minutes ago, meZYNbrink said:

I think this scenario would be scored in favor of the wrestler, but it would be nice if the scoring emphases would be released prior to the tournament.

Not sure of your familiarity with grappling competitions, but a TD is not that big a deal, possibly a high amplitude throw might wow the judges. But a nice single leg shot where the opponent immediately goes for a guillotine or pulls guard should not really score style points. A top level grappler will be active from the guard, throwing submissions and attempting sweeps. Even if  the wrestlers block and survive I don't think this will be what judges want to see.

Either way, a judging system is weird to have in a grappling 

 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, meZYNbrink said:

I think this scenario would be scored in favor of the wrestler, but it would be nice if the scoring emphases would be released prior to the tournament.

most BJJ guys immediately fall to their butts or backs to start a match.  So being taken down to your back is actually better for the BJJ guy.

[meZYNbrink]

4 hours ago, Jim L said:

Not sure of your familiarity with grappling competitions, but a TD is not that big a deal, possibly a high amplitude throw might wow the judges. But a nice single leg shot where the opponent immediately goes for a guillotine or pulls guard should not really score style points. A top level grappler will be active from the guard, throwing submissions and attempting sweeps. Even if  the wrestlers block and survive I don't think this will be what judges want to see.

Either way, a judging system is weird to have in a grappling 

 

I train at one of the best gyms in the West, I'm pretty familiar. Obviously the bjj guy will be advantaged once in the guard, but from a scoring perspective, it has at least been communicated that taking someone down and getting stuck in their guard will be rewarded in the scoring. Round scoring is definitely weird but I'm excited to see how it goes. My favorite rulesets are EBI and ADCC, but neither are perfect. Maybe this will be closer?

[fishbane]

Nolf lost by kneeler in R3.  Kerkvliet lost a unanimous decision.  Downey defeated Rockhold by unanimous decision then lost a split decision in the quarters.

Full matches are available on the B Team YouTube - 

 

Edited August 17 by fishbane

[Caveira]

Why is Bo so pissed off?

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Why is Bo so pissed off?

He’s trying to grow wrestling by getting more entries to WTT!

 

[Caveira]

Any chance someone takes him up on it?   Is there validity to calling out the judges I didn’t see the Match. 

[1032004]