Lopez > Phelps

[Mr. PeanutButter]

  On 8/7/2024 at 6:08 PM, CHROMEBIRD said:

Agree that comparing across sports doesn't make sense. It's just a little annoying how Phelps and Biles are treated like Olympic royalty (deservedly so) and will be heavily featured in future broadcasts for the foreseeable future while Lopez, who is equally accomplished and has done great things for the sport & Olympic movement, will likely be yet another forgotten Olympics alum.

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Lopez isn't American and that definitely doesn't help his exposure

[boconnell]

  On 8/7/2024 at 8:56 AM, scourge165 said:

Well...that you don't know her name is a good starting point.

That Biles has I believe 5...things named after her.

What makes Jordan the better Basketball player than Russell despite Russell having more rings? The consensus. That's what. Biles does things no other Gymnast in the world has ever accomplished. Latynina isn't and hasn't been considered the greatest. Korbut or Comăneci have stronger arguments, but...pretty much all common sense. Competing in an era in which there were VERY few women competing in Gymnastics in the 50s vs the modern day is another determining factor, how long Biles has been the best in the world, the World Championships.

It's kinda like comparing an Olympic Wrestler from the 1930s to Sadulaev. 

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So she is by far the most accomplished, but you don't think she is as good.  And that is enough to claim Biles is unquestionably the greatest.  Makes sense.

[scribers]

Why are there not more two sport wrestlers? I’m sure this has been talked about at least once in my 18 years on message boards. But I forget 

[ionel]

  On 8/7/2024 at 8:35 PM, scribers said:

Why are there not more two sport wrestlers? I’m sure this has been talked about at least once in my 18 years on message boards. But I forget 

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You have no control over timing of matches & weigh ins? 

Do swimmers have to weigh in?  Maybe Wkn knows? 

Edited August 7, 2024 by ionel

[scribers]

Greco is usually fairly separate from freestyle no? 

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 8/7/2024 at 8:45 PM, ionel said:

You have no control over timing of matches & weigh ins? 

Do swimmers have to weigh in?  Maybe Wkn knows? 

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After college I was doing triathlon relays as the swimmer. I ran into someone I used to swim with. He said I looked the same. I pointed out that except now I had love handles. He said, no, you always had those.

[ionel]

  On 8/7/2024 at 10:34 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

After college I was doing triathlon relays as the swimmer. I ran into someone I used to swim with. He said I looked the same. I pointed out that except now I had love handles. He said, no, you always had those.

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Muscle sinks & fat floats correct? 

[billyhoyle]

  On 8/7/2024 at 7:27 AM, boconnell said:

The Soviets had a woman (Larisa Latynina) win 18 Olympic medals and 9 olympic golds.  Both numbers are higher than Biles.  I think you can definitely make an argument for Biles, but I don't understand how you can say it's not even a question that she's better than a woman who won more golds and more medals at the same number of Olympics.  

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If you want to argue that this person: 

is better than Simone Biles, go ahead. But it's like claiming Robin Reed is the greatest American wrestler of all time. Yeah, I get that he pinned every wrestler in his wrestling room with his legs, but it's not a serious argument. The sport was barely being developed in the 50s when she won. And even if you go medal for medal, Biles has significantly at the world championships to go along with similar Olympic succcess. 

[alliseeisgold]

  On 8/7/2024 at 4:25 PM, MPhillips said:

How do they stack up regarding your takes on Amit...

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I think if Brent Metcalf and his Iowa wife moved to Sweden in 5 years and had a wrestler son everyone here would say that's more of an American kid. And then my take would look golden. 

[Eagle26]

  On 8/7/2024 at 12:59 PM, Lleynor said:

I disagree with this completely. Lopez winning Gold made him the best Wrestler in his weight, maybe not the best Wrestler overall even. No one on this board has ever stated he's the current P4P guy. Career though? Wow, obviously up there. 

But Phelps winning 6 Gold and 2 Bronze in 2004 showcased him as one of the best Olympians ever. His dominance in all facets is equal to a Wrestler competing in FS and GR. Is that against the rules?

And then 2008 happened.... that is easily one of the highest achievements in Modern Sports History. He is all alone on a mountain with that record; 8 Golds and zero losses. 

I love Wrestling like all of us do obviously. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. 23 Gold Medals my friend. 23....

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No one on this board talks about Greco which is why you haven’t heard him mentioned in P4P arguments. I’m sure he would be #1 on every Greco ranking P4P. Phelps is absolutely incredible but his gold medal record is 23 out of 29 (79%) vs Lopez at 5 out of 5 (100%). Note that excludes each of their first Olympics where neither medaled. I’m still more impressed with Lopez with 5 in row

[MPhillips]

  On 8/8/2024 at 12:48 AM, alliseeisgold said:

I think if Brent Metcalf and his Iowa wife moved to Sweden in 5 years and had a wrestler son everyone here would say that's more of an American kid.

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You're saying, in 25 years that these people are gonna be thinking about Metcalf's son...

[Eagle26]

  On 8/7/2024 at 4:31 PM, Fan4Life said:

I think it's impossible and unfair to compare athletes across sports.  It's fair to argue that Michael Phelps is the GOAT Olympic swimmer, and Simone Biles is the GOAT Olympic Gymnastic, and Lopez is the GOAT Olympic GR Wrestler.  But to say that one or the other is the greatest overall Olympic athlete ever is an impossible argument to make.  

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Carl Lewis when it comes to greatest Olympic athlete.  Lewis was a 4-time Olympian, and would have competed in 5 Olympics if not for the 1980 boycott (where he probably would have won a couple additional medals).  He not only competed in the sprints, winning a dozen Olympic and world championship gold medals in the 100m and 200m disciplines, but another 6 Olympic and world championship gold medals in the long jump.  Overall, he finished his career with a total of 20 Olympic and world championship medals, with all but 3 of them gold. Of his 9 Olympic gold medals and 1 silver, undoubtedly his most impressive Olympic performance came when he equaled Jesse Owen's feat of winning 4 golds in a single Olympics (in the 100m, 200m, 4x100m relay, and long jump).

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I would agree it’s extremely difficult to compare across sports. However, everyone is already doing it. I’ve often heard Phelps described as the greatest Olympian of all time. Even if there is no way to objectively determine the right answer, a good GOAT debate is always fun

[MPhillips]

  On 8/8/2024 at 12:55 AM, Eagle26 said:

I would agree it’s extremely difficult to compare across sports.

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Bob Mathias, Daley Thompson and Ashton Eaton.

[ionel]

  On 8/8/2024 at 12:55 AM, Eagle26 said:

I would agree it’s extremely difficult to compare across sports. 

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  On 8/8/2024 at 12:59 AM, MPhillips said:

Bob Mathias, Daley Thompson and Ashton Eaton.

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Maybe we should start with a better definition of a sport:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D5zN1908XJ7U&ved=2ahUKEwjJuNW0meSHAxUhEUQIHf2ENiMQwqsBegQIGxAE&usg=AOvVaw1uEHG191Al6r9iB7Hz3fgf

 

[MPhillips]

  On 8/8/2024 at 1:06 AM, ionel said:

Maybe we should start with a better definition of a sport:

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Or, how to post a proper link...

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 8/8/2024 at 12:50 AM, Eagle26 said:

No one on this board talks about Greco which is why you haven’t heard him mentioned in P4P arguments. I’m sure he would be #1 on every Greco ranking P4P. Phelps is absolutely incredible but his gold medal record is 23 out of 29 (79%) vs Lopez at 5 out of 5 (100%). Note that excludes each of their first Olympics where neither medaled. I’m still more impressed with Lopez with 5 in row

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But even that metric is flawed. If Phelps limited himself to his best event, like Lopez, then he could have been 100%, or something like that. And maybe Lopez would be sub-100% if he added freeatyle. But really comparisons across a timed sport and a one-on-one competition are impossible, so we are left with the fact swimming is the highest form of sport.

[Eagle26]

  On 8/8/2024 at 1:11 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

But even that metric is flawed. If Phelps limited himself to his best event, like Lopez, then he could have been 100%, or something like that. And maybe Lopez would be sub-100% if he added freeatyle. But really comparisons across a timed sport and a one-on-one competition are impossible, so we are left with the fact wrestling is the highest form of sport.

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FIFY

[ionel]

  On 8/8/2024 at 1:09 AM, MPhillips said:

Or, how to post a proper link...

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It worked for me ... 

[MPhillips]

  On 8/8/2024 at 1:20 AM, ionel said:

It worked for me ... 

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Same here and I enjoy a thirty second commercial before hand. Reminds me of FLO...

[ionel]

  On 8/8/2024 at 1:22 AM, MPhillips said:

Same here and I enjoy a thirty second commercial before hand. Reminds me of FLO...

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I was able to skip after 5 seconds but you might be the target audience so ...

[alliseeisgold]

  On 8/8/2024 at 12:55 AM, MPhillips said:

You're saying, in 25 years that these people are gonna be thinking about Metcalf's son...

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10 years once junior worlds start. Just take one of his current son's. Let's say they move to Sweden because his purebred American Midwestern wife gets a job change. Well if the metcalfs get dual citizenship the current metcalfs can wrestle for Sweden

And everyone here would have no right to say well that's an American kid. My take on emor stands. 

[boconnell]

  On 8/7/2024 at 11:11 PM, billyhoyle said:

If you want to argue that this person: 

is better than Simone Biles, go ahead. But it's like claiming Robin Reed is the greatest American wrestler of all time. Yeah, I get that he pinned every wrestler in his wrestling room with his legs, but it's not a serious argument. The sport was barely being developed in the 50s when she won. And even if you go medal for medal, Biles has significantly at the world championships to go along with similar Olympic succcess. 

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This video is an incredible argument.  It trumps anything I said. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 8/8/2024 at 3:06 AM, alliseeisgold said:

10 years once junior worlds start. Just take one of his current son's. Let's say they move to Sweden because his purebred American Midwestern wife gets a job change. Well if the metcalfs get dual citizenship the current metcalfs can wrestle for Sweden

And everyone here would have no right to say well that's an American kid. My take on emor stands. 

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Purebred? Dude, you are f'ed in the head.

[billyhoyle]

  On 8/8/2024 at 3:17 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Purebred? Dude, you are f'ed in the head.

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If you value your own sanity, you won't read the shit he said in the Amit Elor thread. 

[mad_rascal]

Camaneci is the goat to me, don't know any stats. I think she got multiple perfect 10s in the same Olympics tho, maybe 76? Check out some of those performances. 

Edit:Gymnastics goat that is.

Edited August 8, 2024 by mad_rascal