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6 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

It is. Sorry you disagree. But they're going in there anyway. There's no way for you or anyone to stop them. Save, checking junk before going in. 

The way that you're going about it is dangerous. Being misinformed and conveying that information to others IS dangerous. On the topic of 'normalizing' if you normalize the othering of a group, it is dangerous. For the person in the group to self harm or someone with anger/mental health issues to lash out at a group that is seen as not as important to the whole. If they see a person that 'no one will miss' it could push someone to act on their violent tendencies. 

Considering you still haven't offered anything 'dangerous' about the situation you are trying to ban. Other than your typical 'common sense' or 'its not normal for kids to see this'. 

i agree, it is dangerous if they go in there 

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6 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

It wasn't, ever? In the United States? do you really believe that? Really?

It wasn't disavowed or legislated against upon the founding of the country. Which could lead one to believe that it is not abnormal. What's the opposite of abnormal? 

it was normal in the south.. but in the entire country? no. it wasn't.

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22 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Okay...here is a great example of how people start to lose a debate because their own logic is used against them and they then turn to attacking the person based on some assumed notion that they believe a certain way.  I have never said, nor implied in any way, shape or form that I am "vehemently against their life" or their choices.  I have punched down on no one, except maybe your terrible take on things.  I have said this so many times and truly believe it, people can say they are whatever sex they want to say they are, they can dress however the heck they want to dress, they can sleep with whomever they want to sleep with, they can marry whomever the heck they love, I support all those things and DO NOT think any less of them or are in anyway less equal them me or anyone else.  However, I also am a strong believer in biology and while someone may want to call themselves the opposite sex that they were biologically born into to make themself feel better, it doesn't change biology...period.  And I am also free to feel strongly that a biological man should not be in the same bathrooms/changing rooms/etc. at the same time as a biological female...especially minors.  That is in no way means I don't respect them and in no may means I am afraid of their choices.

That you hold this position on this topic does mean you are against this choice, which is part of their lives. This is another version of 'love the sinner, hate the sin' that religious people use to restrict the rights of those they feel are less morally virtuous than they are. That you have no evidence of real, actual danger other than a son or daughter coming out of a locker room with some questions to ask their parent or guardian, yet still holding to your opinion is indicative of a person that cannot see past their own bias. Is more concerned with being mildly inconvenienced rather than supporting a very vulnerable population of your fellow human beings. Who, again, make up a vanishingly small percentage of the population. Hence the punching down. 

Go into the recent past. Who was treated like this, in their own time; Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese(interred during WW2), Gay, AIDS patients, and black? Your reaction is a textbook example of what these groups went through and had to fight against before being considered equal in the eyes of the culture and/or the law. You don't know what you don't know but are 100% sure of your opinion. And seemingly unwilling to learn on the subject considering all the information out there that refutes your position. 

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1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

That you hold this position on this topic does mean you are against this choice, which is part of their lives. This is another version of 'love the sinner, hate the sin' that religious people use to restrict the rights of those they feel are less morally virtuous than they are. That you have no evidence of real, actual danger other than a son or daughter coming out of a locker room with some questions to ask their parent or guardian, yet still holding to your opinion is indicative of a person that cannot see past their own bias. Is more concerned with being mildly inconvenienced rather than supporting a very vulnerable population of your fellow human beings. Who, again, make up a vanishingly small percentage of the population. Hence the punching down. 

Go into the recent past. Who was treated like this, in their own time; Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese(interred during WW2), Gay, AIDS patients, and black? Your reaction is a textbook example of what these groups went through and had to fight against before being considered equal in the eyes of the culture and/or the law. You don't know what you don't know but are 100% sure of your opinion. And seemingly unwilling to learn on the subject considering all the information out there that refutes your position. 

You have shown over and over you do not know how to have a normal conversation/debate.  You address NONE of what I said and go instantly into trying to turn what I said into something nefarious and anti-trans.  Me saying I am 100% okay with someone's choice to think they are a sex other than their biological sex but not okay with a biological man using the same bathroom at the same time as a biological female (especially a minor) equals I am trans-phobe (which I am not) religious (which I am not), that I don't like gay people (which is NOT true), black people (again absolutely false), people with AIDS (I personally have never known anyone who has had it), etc.??  You are out of your mind!

Again...using your logic that it shouldn't be a big deal who uses what bathroom, then why does it matter if an extremely small percentage of the population has to use the bathroom based on their biological sex?  How is this hurting them?  How is this proof that society is harming them in some way, or oppressing them, or any other victimization term you like use?? 

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1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

You have shown over and over you do not know how to have a normal conversation/debate.  You address NONE of what I said and go instantly into trying to turn what I said into something nefarious and anti-trans.  Me saying I am 100% okay with someone's choice to think they are a sex other than their biological sex but not okay with a biological man using the same bathroom at the same time as a biological female (especially a minor) equals I am trans-phobe (which I am not) religious (which I am not), that I don't like gay people (which is NOT true), black people (again absolutely false), people with AIDS (I personally have never known anyone who has had it), etc.??  You are out of your mind!

Again...using your logic that it shouldn't be a big deal who uses what bathroom, then why does it matter if an extremely small percentage of the population has to use the bathroom based on their biological sex?  How is this hurting them?  How is this proof that society is harming them in some way, or oppressing them, or any other victimization term you like use?? 

How is it hurting them: for trans people who do not feel they are the gender they were assigned at birth(remember people with male genitalia can be XX and people with female-looking genitalia can be XY) and try to change the way the present their gender expression(hair cut, long for female short for male, clothes feminine for female masculine for male) they're lives are just more difficult, period. Because people are not use to the idea that this is a fluid change that someone would want to make. Yet the more we learn about it is that these people have always existed, much like the groups I mentioned before(I'll get back to them in a second), but have longed for the opportunity, freedom, and acceptance to make those changes without fear of being ostracized or worse. Their rates of self harm is higher. Life expectancy is lower. Social mobility is lower. Educational outcomes are lower. Chances of them being fired, attacked, or kicked out of their homes before they are 18 are higher. I'm saying let them go to the bathroom where they want. Considering its not a large group of people. 

The conversation has two prongs, those that can 'pass' for the gender they are looking to transition to and those that don't. Those that can 'pass' are seemingly indistinguishable from those cis gendered ones they are trying to emulate. They, I'll bet are not your problem or maybe they still are. Someone that has gone to that much trouble to look the part, I'll bet is not at all interested in making a scene of any kind in a bathroom/locker room so much so that you'd notice. But I feel its those that don't 'pass' but while still in transition would like to use the facilities of the gender they feel best represents them and how they currently feel. That you have no examples of people going out their way to play out the scenarios you are so fearful of, other than the one from Canada of a person minding their own business and not trying to bother anyone. It stands to reason that those are the ones you feel would pose the biggest threat because they are so far outside the norm of whom should be using the facilities. 

Seems as if you have a solution in search of a problem. There is not a substantive number of occurrences of your situation to warrant banning of everyone from using the bathroom/locker room as you have suggested. Again, if you are so against being mildly inconvenienced so that a marginalized group can feel safe and comfortable in the bathroom, I don't know what to say to you. But you need to grow up. 

Back to the groups I mentioned before. The list represented marginalized groups that had to fight for legal and cultural protections so that they could be considered equal members of society and culture. They had insults and misinformation spread about them to keep the public fearful and apprehensive of allowing them the same rights and privileges as everyone else. WHICH. IS. WHAT. YOU. ARE. SUGGESTING. OF. TRANS. PEOPLE. Not giving them rights to be safe and comfortable in a room unless they live up to your uninformed standards. 

We grant all the rights. Then we pull them back one by one. So with trans people. Give them all the same rights as everyone else. People of opposing genders go into gender specific bathrooms all the time. They have since forever. You could try to educate yourself and your brood that they are not to be feared because, duh. Or continue attacking a thing you don't know and don't care to know because, well at this point I think we all know why. You are punching down. Your thoughts and opinions on the topic are dangerous and may well lead to someone getting hurt. 

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4 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

How is it hurting them: for trans people who do not feel they are the gender they were assigned at birth(remember people with male genitalia can be XX and people with female-looking genitalia can be XY) and try to change the way the present their gender expression(hair cut, long for female short for male, clothes feminine for female masculine for male) they're lives are just more difficult, period. Because people are not use to the idea that this is a fluid change that someone would want to make. Yet the more we learn about it is that these people have always existed, much like the groups I mentioned before(I'll get back to them in a second), but have longed for the opportunity, freedom, and acceptance to make those changes without fear of being ostracized or worse. Their rates of self harm is higher. Life expectancy is lower. Social mobility is lower. Educational outcomes are lower. Chances of them being fired, attacked, or kicked out of their homes before they are 18 are higher. I'm saying let them go to the bathroom where they want. Considering its not a large group of people. 

The conversation has two prongs, those that can 'pass' for the gender they are looking to transition to and those that don't. Those that can 'pass' are seemingly indistinguishable from those cis gendered ones they are trying to emulate. They, I'll bet are not your problem or maybe they still are. Someone that has gone to that much trouble to look the part, I'll bet is not at all interested in making a scene of any kind in a bathroom/locker room so much so that you'd notice. But I feel its those that don't 'pass' but while still in transition would like to use the facilities of the gender they feel best represents them and how they currently feel. That you have no examples of people going out their way to play out the scenarios you are so fearful of, other than the one from Canada of a person minding their own business and not trying to bother anyone. It stands to reason that those are the ones you feel would pose the biggest threat because they are so far outside the norm of whom should be using the facilities. 

Seems as if you have a solution in search of a problem. There is not a substantive number of occurrences of your situation to warrant banning of everyone from using the bathroom/locker room as you have suggested. Again, if you are so against being mildly inconvenienced so that a marginalized group can feel safe and comfortable in the bathroom, I don't know what to say to you. But you need to grow up. 

Back to the groups I mentioned before. The list represented marginalized groups that had to fight for legal and cultural protections so that they could be considered equal members of society and culture. They had insults and misinformation spread about them to keep the public fearful and apprehensive of allowing them the same rights and privileges as everyone else. WHICH. IS. WHAT. YOU. ARE. SUGGESTING. OF. TRANS. PEOPLE. Not giving them rights to be safe and comfortable in a room unless they live up to your uninformed standards. 

We grant all the rights. Then we pull them back one by one. So with trans people. Give them all the same rights as everyone else. People of opposing genders go into gender specific bathrooms all the time. They have since forever. You could try to educate yourself and your brood that they are not to be feared because, duh. Or continue attacking a thing you don't know and don't care to know because, well at this point I think we all know why. You are punching down. Your thoughts and opinions on the topic are dangerous and may well lead to someone getting hurt. 

Wow...you are so out there.  Still can't address what I said, and then put this babbling post out there.  WHAT. AM. I. SUGGESTING. OF TRANS.PEOPLE???  In addition, why is it THEY get the right to feel "comfortable" but 99.999% of the rest of the population isn't afforded that right??  And please tell me what my "uniformed standards" are?  Those of biological FACTS??  Again, I used your logic to explain the bathroom/changing room thing and you refuse to address it and spew this crap. 

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17 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

How is it hurting them: for trans people who do not feel they are the gender they were assigned at birth(remember people with male genitalia can be XX and people with female-looking genitalia can be XY) and try to change the way the present their gender expression(hair cut, long for female short for male, clothes feminine for female masculine for male) they're lives are just more difficult, period. Because people are not use to the idea that this is a fluid change that someone would want to make. Yet the more we learn about it is that these people have always existed, much like the groups I mentioned before(I'll get back to them in a second), but have longed for the opportunity, freedom, and acceptance to make those changes without fear of being ostracized or worse. Their rates of self harm is higher. Life expectancy is lower. Social mobility is lower. Educational outcomes are lower. Chances of them being fired, attacked, or kicked out of their homes before they are 18 are higher. I'm saying let them go to the bathroom where they want. Considering its not a large group of people. 

The conversation has two prongs, those that can 'pass' for the gender they are looking to transition to and those that don't. Those that can 'pass' are seemingly indistinguishable from those cis gendered ones they are trying to emulate. They, I'll bet are not your problem or maybe they still are. Someone that has gone to that much trouble to look the part, I'll bet is not at all interested in making a scene of any kind in a bathroom/locker room so much so that you'd notice. But I feel its those that don't 'pass' but while still in transition would like to use the facilities of the gender they feel best represents them and how they currently feel. That you have no examples of people going out their way to play out the scenarios you are so fearful of, other than the one from Canada of a person minding their own business and not trying to bother anyone. It stands to reason that those are the ones you feel would pose the biggest threat because they are so far outside the norm of whom should be using the facilities. 

Seems as if you have a solution in search of a problem. There is not a substantive number of occurrences of your situation to warrant banning of everyone from using the bathroom/locker room as you have suggested. Again, if you are so against being mildly inconvenienced so that a marginalized group can feel safe and comfortable in the bathroom, I don't know what to say to you. But you need to grow up. 

Back to the groups I mentioned before. The list represented marginalized groups that had to fight for legal and cultural protections so that they could be considered equal members of society and culture. They had insults and misinformation spread about them to keep the public fearful and apprehensive of allowing them the same rights and privileges as everyone else. WHICH. IS. WHAT. YOU. ARE. SUGGESTING. OF. TRANS. PEOPLE. Not giving them rights to be safe and comfortable in a room unless they live up to your uninformed standards. 

We grant all the rights. Then we pull them back one by one. So with trans people. Give them all the same rights as everyone else. People of opposing genders go into gender specific bathrooms all the time. They have since forever. You could try to educate yourself and your brood that they are not to be feared because, duh. Or continue attacking a thing you don't know and don't care to know because, well at this point I think we all know why. You are punching down. Your thoughts and opinions on the topic are dangerous and may well lead to someone getting hurt. 

 

13 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Wow...you are so out there.  Still can't address what I said, and then put this babbling post out there.  WHAT. AM. I. SUGGESTING. OF TRANS.PEOPLE???  In addition, why is it THEY get the right to feel "comfortable" but 99.999% of the rest of the population isn't afforded that right??  And please tell me what my "uniformed standards" are?  Those of biological FACTS??  Again, I used your logic to explain the bathroom/changing room thing and you refuse to address it and spew this crap. 

You are suggesting that they do not deserve the rights to express themselves. In this case through going to the bathroom they feel best fits their needs, simply because you are uncomfortable. Not because its dangerous, because it isn't. Again, you have offered no proof of an epidemic of dangerous situations coming about by trans people using the bathroom of the gender they choose to express(outside of cis people attacking trans people for doing so). So should cis people be forced to use their own bathrooms and locker rooms because they are a danger to trans people? How do you thread that needle? And you site, falsely, that 99.99999% are uncomfortable. I feel you are using such a high number simply to justify YOUR fear, but it doesn't accurately represent reality. You should do some research. You don't get to dictate laws or policies about being comfortable or uncomfortable in a situation. If there is a legitimate danger, we can talk about it. Since there isn't, you don't have a leg to stand on. Be comfortable being uncomfortable. Stop being illogically bias. Teach your kids to be tolerant instead of maintaining their comfort by stepping on the neck of innocent people.  

Uniformed standards: are that only people you are comfortable using a specific bathroom are allowed to because it makes you uncomfortable otherwise. They must present as and be XX female to use a 'female' bathroom or vise versa for a 'male' bathroom. 

If there is a danger, site an example or examples, then link the data to a trend that would be remedied by gender checks at bathrooms and locker rooms? 

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11 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

You are suggesting that they do not deserve the rights to express themselves. In this case through going to the bathroom they feel best fits their needs, simply because you are uncomfortable. Not because its dangerous, because it isn't. Again, you have offered no proof of an epidemic of dangerous situations coming about by trans people using the bathroom of the gender they choose to express(outside of cis people attacking trans people for doing so). So should cis people be forced to use their own bathrooms and locker rooms because they are a danger to trans people? How do you thread that needle? And you site, falsely, that 99.99999% are uncomfortable. I feel you are using such a high number simply to justify YOUR fear, but it doesn't accurately represent reality. You should do some research. You don't get to dictate laws or policies about being comfortable or uncomfortable in a situation. If there is a legitimate danger, we can talk about it. Since there isn't, you don't have a leg to stand on. Be comfortable being uncomfortable. Stop being illogically bias. Teach your kids to be tolerant instead of maintaining their comfort by stepping on the neck of innocent people.  

Uniformed standards: are that only people you are comfortable using a specific bathroom are allowed to because it makes you uncomfortable otherwise. They must present as and be XX female to use a 'female' bathroom or vise versa for a 'male' bathroom. 

If there is a danger, site an example or examples, then link the data to a trend that would be remedied by gender checks at bathrooms and locker rooms? 

Who said I am afraid of anything??  Having an opinion on something doesn't make me afraid.  Biology and societal norms have determined the need for separate male and female bathrooms and locker rooms.  There isn't any nefarious reason to agree with the biological and societal norms.  It also has nothing to do with "tolerance" even if you try to paint it that way.  Your ridiculous/emotional circular arguments about "show me the data" and "where is the proof of an epidemic" in terms of biological males using the same bathroom/locker room as biological females are weak and completely asinine.  Again, it isn't about fear, danger, etc....it is about societal norms.

And since you brought it up...so you agree that you talk in circles and your logic doesn't hold up by saying no one should care which bathroom you use, and then out of the other side of your mouth you go on and on how trans people want to use a bathroom that they feel comfortable using...so which is it?  

Can you provide the data that shows how trans people using the bathroom/locker room based on their biological sex has resulted in them being in danger, or how it specifically hurts them??

By the way...what is "cis"??

 

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