Harris Picks Walz as VP Running Mate over Josh Shapiro

[Ohio Elite]

One of these guys is not like the other...

 

[Scouts Honor]

6 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

It is. Sorry you disagree. But they're going in there anyway. There's no way for you or anyone to stop them. Save, checking junk before going in. 

The way that you're going about it is dangerous. Being misinformed and conveying that information to others IS dangerous. On the topic of 'normalizing' if you normalize the othering of a group, it is dangerous. For the person in the group to self harm or someone with anger/mental health issues to lash out at a group that is seen as not as important to the whole. If they see a person that 'no one will miss' it could push someone to act on their violent tendencies. 

Considering you still haven't offered anything 'dangerous' about the situation you are trying to ban. Other than your typical 'common sense' or 'its not normal for kids to see this'. 

i agree, it is dangerous if they go in there 

[Scouts Honor]

6 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

It wasn't, ever? In the United States? do you really believe that? Really?

It wasn't disavowed or legislated against upon the founding of the country. Which could lead one to believe that it is not abnormal. What's the opposite of abnormal? 

it was normal in the south.. but in the entire country? no. it wasn't.

[Scouts Honor]

4 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

 

If it really doesn't matter who uses what bathroom, why would it matter if the law says biological men have to use a male bathroom and vice versa??

dont you dare use his logic against him

[Bigbrog]

14 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

dont you dare use his logic against him

my bad!

[ThreePointTakedown]

22 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Okay...here is a great example of how people start to lose a debate because their own logic is used against them and they then turn to attacking the person based on some assumed notion that they believe a certain way.  I have never said, nor implied in any way, shape or form that I am "vehemently against their life" or their choices.  I have punched down on no one, except maybe your terrible take on things.  I have said this so many times and truly believe it, people can say they are whatever sex they want to say they are, they can dress however the heck they want to dress, they can sleep with whomever they want to sleep with, they can marry whomever the heck they love, I support all those things and DO NOT think any less of them or are in anyway less equal them me or anyone else.  However, I also am a strong believer in biology and while someone may want to call themselves the opposite sex that they were biologically born into to make themself feel better, it doesn't change biology...period.  And I am also free to feel strongly that a biological man should not be in the same bathrooms/changing rooms/etc. at the same time as a biological female...especially minors.  That is in no way means I don't respect them and in no may means I am afraid of their choices.

That you hold this position on this topic does mean you are against this choice, which is part of their lives. This is another version of 'love the sinner, hate the sin' that religious people use to restrict the rights of those they feel are less morally virtuous than they are. That you have no evidence of real, actual danger other than a son or daughter coming out of a locker room with some questions to ask their parent or guardian, yet still holding to your opinion is indicative of a person that cannot see past their own bias. Is more concerned with being mildly inconvenienced rather than supporting a very vulnerable population of your fellow human beings. Who, again, make up a vanishingly small percentage of the population. Hence the punching down. 

Go into the recent past. Who was treated like this, in their own time; Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese(interred during WW2), Gay, AIDS patients, and black? Your reaction is a textbook example of what these groups went through and had to fight against before being considered equal in the eyes of the culture and/or the law. You don't know what you don't know but are 100% sure of your opinion. And seemingly unwilling to learn on the subject considering all the information out there that refutes your position. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

sorry. Here's the article from nearly a decade ago that refutes your points. 

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/5/13/17938102/transgender-people-bathrooms-locker-rooms-schools

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

That you hold this position on this topic does mean you are against this choice, which is part of their lives. This is another version of 'love the sinner, hate the sin' that religious people use to restrict the rights of those they feel are less morally virtuous than they are. That you have no evidence of real, actual danger other than a son or daughter coming out of a locker room with some questions to ask their parent or guardian, yet still holding to your opinion is indicative of a person that cannot see past their own bias. Is more concerned with being mildly inconvenienced rather than supporting a very vulnerable population of your fellow human beings. Who, again, make up a vanishingly small percentage of the population. Hence the punching down. 

Go into the recent past. Who was treated like this, in their own time; Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese(interred during WW2), Gay, AIDS patients, and black? Your reaction is a textbook example of what these groups went through and had to fight against before being considered equal in the eyes of the culture and/or the law. You don't know what you don't know but are 100% sure of your opinion. And seemingly unwilling to learn on the subject considering all the information out there that refutes your position. 

You have shown over and over you do not know how to have a normal conversation/debate.  You address NONE of what I said and go instantly into trying to turn what I said into something nefarious and anti-trans.  Me saying I am 100% okay with someone's choice to think they are a sex other than their biological sex but not okay with a biological man using the same bathroom at the same time as a biological female (especially a minor) equals I am trans-phobe (which I am not) religious (which I am not), that I don't like gay people (which is NOT true), black people (again absolutely false), people with AIDS (I personally have never known anyone who has had it), etc.??  You are out of your mind!

Again...using your logic that it shouldn't be a big deal who uses what bathroom, then why does it matter if an extremely small percentage of the population has to use the bathroom based on their biological sex?  How is this hurting them?  How is this proof that society is harming them in some way, or oppressing them, or any other victimization term you like use?? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

You have shown over and over you do not know how to have a normal conversation/debate.  You address NONE of what I said and go instantly into trying to turn what I said into something nefarious and anti-trans.  Me saying I am 100% okay with someone's choice to think they are a sex other than their biological sex but not okay with a biological man using the same bathroom at the same time as a biological female (especially a minor) equals I am trans-phobe (which I am not) religious (which I am not), that I don't like gay people (which is NOT true), black people (again absolutely false), people with AIDS (I personally have never known anyone who has had it), etc.??  You are out of your mind!

Again...using your logic that it shouldn't be a big deal who uses what bathroom, then why does it matter if an extremely small percentage of the population has to use the bathroom based on their biological sex?  How is this hurting them?  How is this proof that society is harming them in some way, or oppressing them, or any other victimization term you like use?? 

How is it hurting them: for trans people who do not feel they are the gender they were assigned at birth(remember people with male genitalia can be XX and people with female-looking genitalia can be XY) and try to change the way the present their gender expression(hair cut, long for female short for male, clothes feminine for female masculine for male) they're lives are just more difficult, period. Because people are not use to the idea that this is a fluid change that someone would want to make. Yet the more we learn about it is that these people have always existed, much like the groups I mentioned before(I'll get back to them in a second), but have longed for the opportunity, freedom, and acceptance to make those changes without fear of being ostracized or worse. Their rates of self harm is higher. Life expectancy is lower. Social mobility is lower. Educational outcomes are lower. Chances of them being fired, attacked, or kicked out of their homes before they are 18 are higher. I'm saying let them go to the bathroom where they want. Considering its not a large group of people. 

The conversation has two prongs, those that can 'pass' for the gender they are looking to transition to and those that don't. Those that can 'pass' are seemingly indistinguishable from those cis gendered ones they are trying to emulate. They, I'll bet are not your problem or maybe they still are. Someone that has gone to that much trouble to look the part, I'll bet is not at all interested in making a scene of any kind in a bathroom/locker room so much so that you'd notice. But I feel its those that don't 'pass' but while still in transition would like to use the facilities of the gender they feel best represents them and how they currently feel. That you have no examples of people going out their way to play out the scenarios you are so fearful of, other than the one from Canada of a person minding their own business and not trying to bother anyone. It stands to reason that those are the ones you feel would pose the biggest threat because they are so far outside the norm of whom should be using the facilities. 

Seems as if you have a solution in search of a problem. There is not a substantive number of occurrences of your situation to warrant banning of everyone from using the bathroom/locker room as you have suggested. Again, if you are so against being mildly inconvenienced so that a marginalized group can feel safe and comfortable in the bathroom, I don't know what to say to you. But you need to grow up. 

Back to the groups I mentioned before. The list represented marginalized groups that had to fight for legal and cultural protections so that they could be considered equal members of society and culture. They had insults and misinformation spread about them to keep the public fearful and apprehensive of allowing them the same rights and privileges as everyone else. WHICH. IS. WHAT. YOU. ARE. SUGGESTING. OF. TRANS. PEOPLE. Not giving them rights to be safe and comfortable in a room unless they live up to your uninformed standards. 

We grant all the rights. Then we pull them back one by one. So with trans people. Give them all the same rights as everyone else. People of opposing genders go into gender specific bathrooms all the time. They have since forever. You could try to educate yourself and your brood that they are not to be feared because, duh. Or continue attacking a thing you don't know and don't care to know because, well at this point I think we all know why. You are punching down. Your thoughts and opinions on the topic are dangerous and may well lead to someone getting hurt. 

[Scouts Honor]

men who want to get into the womens lockerrooms and rest rooms and boxing clubs...

usually punch down when they don't get their way 

 

statutory punching down... just by wanting to go in 

[Bigbrog]

4 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

How is it hurting them: for trans people who do not feel they are the gender they were assigned at birth(remember people with male genitalia can be XX and people with female-looking genitalia can be XY) and try to change the way the present their gender expression(hair cut, long for female short for male, clothes feminine for female masculine for male) they're lives are just more difficult, period. Because people are not use to the idea that this is a fluid change that someone would want to make. Yet the more we learn about it is that these people have always existed, much like the groups I mentioned before(I'll get back to them in a second), but have longed for the opportunity, freedom, and acceptance to make those changes without fear of being ostracized or worse. Their rates of self harm is higher. Life expectancy is lower. Social mobility is lower. Educational outcomes are lower. Chances of them being fired, attacked, or kicked out of their homes before they are 18 are higher. I'm saying let them go to the bathroom where they want. Considering its not a large group of people. 

The conversation has two prongs, those that can 'pass' for the gender they are looking to transition to and those that don't. Those that can 'pass' are seemingly indistinguishable from those cis gendered ones they are trying to emulate. They, I'll bet are not your problem or maybe they still are. Someone that has gone to that much trouble to look the part, I'll bet is not at all interested in making a scene of any kind in a bathroom/locker room so much so that you'd notice. But I feel its those that don't 'pass' but while still in transition would like to use the facilities of the gender they feel best represents them and how they currently feel. That you have no examples of people going out their way to play out the scenarios you are so fearful of, other than the one from Canada of a person minding their own business and not trying to bother anyone. It stands to reason that those are the ones you feel would pose the biggest threat because they are so far outside the norm of whom should be using the facilities. 

Seems as if you have a solution in search of a problem. There is not a substantive number of occurrences of your situation to warrant banning of everyone from using the bathroom/locker room as you have suggested. Again, if you are so against being mildly inconvenienced so that a marginalized group can feel safe and comfortable in the bathroom, I don't know what to say to you. But you need to grow up. 

Back to the groups I mentioned before. The list represented marginalized groups that had to fight for legal and cultural protections so that they could be considered equal members of society and culture. They had insults and misinformation spread about them to keep the public fearful and apprehensive of allowing them the same rights and privileges as everyone else. WHICH. IS. WHAT. YOU. ARE. SUGGESTING. OF. TRANS. PEOPLE. Not giving them rights to be safe and comfortable in a room unless they live up to your uninformed standards. 

We grant all the rights. Then we pull them back one by one. So with trans people. Give them all the same rights as everyone else. People of opposing genders go into gender specific bathrooms all the time. They have since forever. You could try to educate yourself and your brood that they are not to be feared because, duh. Or continue attacking a thing you don't know and don't care to know because, well at this point I think we all know why. You are punching down. Your thoughts and opinions on the topic are dangerous and may well lead to someone getting hurt. 

Wow...you are so out there.  Still can't address what I said, and then put this babbling post out there.  WHAT. AM. I. SUGGESTING. OF TRANS.PEOPLE???  In addition, why is it THEY get the right to feel "comfortable" but 99.999% of the rest of the population isn't afforded that right??  And please tell me what my "uniformed standards" are?  Those of biological FACTS??  Again, I used your logic to explain the bathroom/changing room thing and you refuse to address it and spew this crap. 

[Scouts Honor]

it's funny the GOVT will promote and protect the rights of the trans community to do as they feel...

 

but i feel like a millionaire and they won't write me a check...

[Scouts Honor]

[ThreePointTakedown]

17 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

How is it hurting them: for trans people who do not feel they are the gender they were assigned at birth(remember people with male genitalia can be XX and people with female-looking genitalia can be XY) and try to change the way the present their gender expression(hair cut, long for female short for male, clothes feminine for female masculine for male) they're lives are just more difficult, period. Because people are not use to the idea that this is a fluid change that someone would want to make. Yet the more we learn about it is that these people have always existed, much like the groups I mentioned before(I'll get back to them in a second), but have longed for the opportunity, freedom, and acceptance to make those changes without fear of being ostracized or worse. Their rates of self harm is higher. Life expectancy is lower. Social mobility is lower. Educational outcomes are lower. Chances of them being fired, attacked, or kicked out of their homes before they are 18 are higher. I'm saying let them go to the bathroom where they want. Considering its not a large group of people. 

The conversation has two prongs, those that can 'pass' for the gender they are looking to transition to and those that don't. Those that can 'pass' are seemingly indistinguishable from those cis gendered ones they are trying to emulate. They, I'll bet are not your problem or maybe they still are. Someone that has gone to that much trouble to look the part, I'll bet is not at all interested in making a scene of any kind in a bathroom/locker room so much so that you'd notice. But I feel its those that don't 'pass' but while still in transition would like to use the facilities of the gender they feel best represents them and how they currently feel. That you have no examples of people going out their way to play out the scenarios you are so fearful of, other than the one from Canada of a person minding their own business and not trying to bother anyone. It stands to reason that those are the ones you feel would pose the biggest threat because they are so far outside the norm of whom should be using the facilities. 

Seems as if you have a solution in search of a problem. There is not a substantive number of occurrences of your situation to warrant banning of everyone from using the bathroom/locker room as you have suggested. Again, if you are so against being mildly inconvenienced so that a marginalized group can feel safe and comfortable in the bathroom, I don't know what to say to you. But you need to grow up. 

Back to the groups I mentioned before. The list represented marginalized groups that had to fight for legal and cultural protections so that they could be considered equal members of society and culture. They had insults and misinformation spread about them to keep the public fearful and apprehensive of allowing them the same rights and privileges as everyone else. WHICH. IS. WHAT. YOU. ARE. SUGGESTING. OF. TRANS. PEOPLE. Not giving them rights to be safe and comfortable in a room unless they live up to your uninformed standards. 

We grant all the rights. Then we pull them back one by one. So with trans people. Give them all the same rights as everyone else. People of opposing genders go into gender specific bathrooms all the time. They have since forever. You could try to educate yourself and your brood that they are not to be feared because, duh. Or continue attacking a thing you don't know and don't care to know because, well at this point I think we all know why. You are punching down. Your thoughts and opinions on the topic are dangerous and may well lead to someone getting hurt. 

 

13 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Wow...you are so out there.  Still can't address what I said, and then put this babbling post out there.  WHAT. AM. I. SUGGESTING. OF TRANS.PEOPLE???  In addition, why is it THEY get the right to feel "comfortable" but 99.999% of the rest of the population isn't afforded that right??  And please tell me what my "uniformed standards" are?  Those of biological FACTS??  Again, I used your logic to explain the bathroom/changing room thing and you refuse to address it and spew this crap. 

You are suggesting that they do not deserve the rights to express themselves. In this case through going to the bathroom they feel best fits their needs, simply because you are uncomfortable. Not because its dangerous, because it isn't. Again, you have offered no proof of an epidemic of dangerous situations coming about by trans people using the bathroom of the gender they choose to express(outside of cis people attacking trans people for doing so). So should cis people be forced to use their own bathrooms and locker rooms because they are a danger to trans people? How do you thread that needle? And you site, falsely, that 99.99999% are uncomfortable. I feel you are using such a high number simply to justify YOUR fear, but it doesn't accurately represent reality. You should do some research. You don't get to dictate laws or policies about being comfortable or uncomfortable in a situation. If there is a legitimate danger, we can talk about it. Since there isn't, you don't have a leg to stand on. Be comfortable being uncomfortable. Stop being illogically bias. Teach your kids to be tolerant instead of maintaining their comfort by stepping on the neck of innocent people.  

Uniformed standards: are that only people you are comfortable using a specific bathroom are allowed to because it makes you uncomfortable otherwise. They must present as and be XX female to use a 'female' bathroom or vise versa for a 'male' bathroom. 

If there is a danger, site an example or examples, then link the data to a trend that would be remedied by gender checks at bathrooms and locker rooms? 

[Bigbrog]

11 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

You are suggesting that they do not deserve the rights to express themselves. In this case through going to the bathroom they feel best fits their needs, simply because you are uncomfortable. Not because its dangerous, because it isn't. Again, you have offered no proof of an epidemic of dangerous situations coming about by trans people using the bathroom of the gender they choose to express(outside of cis people attacking trans people for doing so). So should cis people be forced to use their own bathrooms and locker rooms because they are a danger to trans people? How do you thread that needle? And you site, falsely, that 99.99999% are uncomfortable. I feel you are using such a high number simply to justify YOUR fear, but it doesn't accurately represent reality. You should do some research. You don't get to dictate laws or policies about being comfortable or uncomfortable in a situation. If there is a legitimate danger, we can talk about it. Since there isn't, you don't have a leg to stand on. Be comfortable being uncomfortable. Stop being illogically bias. Teach your kids to be tolerant instead of maintaining their comfort by stepping on the neck of innocent people.  

Uniformed standards: are that only people you are comfortable using a specific bathroom are allowed to because it makes you uncomfortable otherwise. They must present as and be XX female to use a 'female' bathroom or vise versa for a 'male' bathroom. 

If there is a danger, site an example or examples, then link the data to a trend that would be remedied by gender checks at bathrooms and locker rooms? 

Who said I am afraid of anything??  Having an opinion on something doesn't make me afraid.  Biology and societal norms have determined the need for separate male and female bathrooms and locker rooms.  There isn't any nefarious reason to agree with the biological and societal norms.  It also has nothing to do with "tolerance" even if you try to paint it that way.  Your ridiculous/emotional circular arguments about "show me the data" and "where is the proof of an epidemic" in terms of biological males using the same bathroom/locker room as biological females are weak and completely asinine.  Again, it isn't about fear, danger, etc....it is about societal norms.

And since you brought it up...so you agree that you talk in circles and your logic doesn't hold up by saying no one should care which bathroom you use, and then out of the other side of your mouth you go on and on how trans people want to use a bathroom that they feel comfortable using...so which is it?  

Can you provide the data that shows how trans people using the bathroom/locker room based on their biological sex has resulted in them being in danger, or how it specifically hurts them??

By the way...what is "cis"??

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

3 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Who said I am afraid of anything??  Having an opinion on something doesn't make me afraid.  Biology and societal norms have determined the need for separate male and female bathrooms and locker rooms.  There isn't any nefarious reason to agree with the biological and societal norms.  It also has nothing to do with "tolerance" even if you try to paint it that way.  Your ridiculous/emotional circular arguments about "show me the data" and "where is the proof of an epidemic" in terms of biological males using the same bathroom/locker room as biological females are weak and completely asinine.  Again, it isn't about fear, danger, etc....it is about societal norms.

And since you brought it up...so you agree that you talk in circles and your logic doesn't hold up by saying no one should care which bathroom you use, and then out of the other side of your mouth you go on and on how trans people want to use a bathroom that they feel comfortable using...so which is it?  

Can you provide the data that shows how trans people using the bathroom/locker room based on their biological sex has resulted in them being in danger, or how it specifically hurts them??

By the way...what is "cis"??

 

You did. You said you were afraid. Not only that but your opinions and views on this topic hint of your fear. Because you've been convinced of something that is not at all true. Yet you dig your heels in without offering anything to support your idea other than your emotions. 

If you are leaning on societal norms why are you not going along with the opposite view? Because it is starting to change societal norms. Making it more and more prevalent that people are ok with trans people using the bathroom/locker room of their choosing. Your opinion is losing support and switching. But since we're on the subject, we don't make laws/policies based on societal norms. But of potential harm. Which, again, you still have not shown is actually a thing other than you clutching your pearls on behalf of others. Careful those things are delicate. 

Your second paragraph makes no sense. Not sure you really understand circular logic. 

The AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION says, 'Denying transgender students this access endangers their health, safety and well-being, leads to negative health outcomes and heightens stigma and discrimination, says the amicus brief filed by the AMA, the Oregon Medical Association and a dozen other mental health and health care organizations."

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/population-care/exclusionary-bathroom-policies-harm-transgender-students#:~:text=Denying transgender students this access,health and health care organizations.

Lets see you squirm out from under this one. Or just ignore it because it proves you wrong. I know you're pot committed. Sunken cost is a tough gambit. 

Cis, look it up. 

Still no response to people with XX chromosomes can have male genitalia and people with XY can have female looking genitalia? What's your take, can they use any bathroom they want or do you have a suggestion?  

 

[Bigbrog]

24 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

You did. You said you were afraid. Not only that but your opinions and views on this topic hint of your fear. Because you've been convinced of something that is not at all true. Yet you dig your heels in without offering anything to support your idea other than your emotions. 

If you are leaning on societal norms why are you not going along with the opposite view? Because it is starting to change societal norms. Making it more and more prevalent that people are ok with trans people using the bathroom/locker room of their choosing. Your opinion is losing support and switching. But since we're on the subject, we don't make laws/policies based on societal norms. But of potential harm. Which, again, you still have not shown is actually a thing other than you clutching your pearls on behalf of others. Careful those things are delicate. 

Your second paragraph makes no sense. Not sure you really understand circular logic. 

The AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION says, 'Denying transgender students this access endangers their health, safety and well-being, leads to negative health outcomes and heightens stigma and discrimination, says the amicus brief filed by the AMA, the Oregon Medical Association and a dozen other mental health and health care organizations."

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/population-care/exclusionary-bathroom-policies-harm-transgender-students#:~:text=Denying transgender students this access,health and health care organizations.

Lets see you squirm out from under this one. Or just ignore it because it proves you wrong. I know you're pot committed. Sunken cost is a tough gambit. 

Cis, look it up. 

Still no response to people with XX chromosomes can have male genitalia and people with XY can have female looking genitalia? What's your take, can they use any bathroom they want or do you have a suggestion?  

 

Show me ANYWERE that I said I was "afraid" or in "fear"!!!  And what am I convinced about that is not true??  You just make conclusions that are all made up in your head with no evidence whatsoever other than the mental gymnastics you play to make you or someone a victim. 

Societal norms are extremely important in a well-functioning society.  Are some things changing...absolutely.  I have and continue change to new societal norms...aka., being acceptance of trans and people for their choices, AGAIN, I don't and never have had a problem with people choosing to dress and/or change how they view themselves in terms of gender.  And I have and still don't believe that people that are biological males should be using a bathroom/changing room with a biological female (especially minors).  Those two societal norms can both be "right" or okay.  If you think they can't then that is on you.

As for the "proof", are you and the authors seriously saying that just because a biological male or female who has to use a single stall or a bathroom based on their biological sex endangers their health, safety, and wellbeing???  Seriously??  If someone is so hurt because they have to use a certain bathroom then it isn't about what someone else is doing to them, it is that they have a severe mental health issue and hopefully they get the help they clearly need!  Not to mention, how does it impact their safety??  Care to share any numbers of where a biological male used a bathroom assigned to be used by biological males was injured by doing so.  You provided ZERO evidence other than saying emotional statements.

Why do I need to look up cis...what is it?  Is that term used in biological sciences literature??

You bringing up a rare genetic disorder helps your "argument" and proves me wrong how??  As far as I am concerned, if someone is born with female genitalia and are raised female their whole life than they are female and vice versa.  Does this mean we should change WHOLISTIC societal norms or laws...NO!!  Does it mean biological men should compete in biological woman sports...NO!!!!

Have you ever been able to have a debate with someone to truly understand their take on things without always looking how you or someone else can be a victim and the person has some nefarious motives??  Have you ever said...well I disagree with you but that is okay you are entitled to your opinion??

Edited August 14 by Bigbrog

[ThreePointTakedown]

On 8/12/2024 at 3:04 PM, Ohio Elite said:

One of these guys is not like the other...

 

The fear is palpable. Y'all are just terrified. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

Show me ANYWERE that I said I was "afraid" or in "fear"!!!  And what am I convinced about that is not true??  You just make conclusions that are all made up in your head with no evidence whatsoever other than the mental gymnastics you play to make you or someone a victim. 

Societal norms are extremely important in a well-functioning society.  Are some things changing...absolutely.  I have and continue change to new societal norms...aka., being acceptance of trans and people for their choices, AGAIN, I don't and never have had a problem with people choosing to dress and/or change how they view themselves in terms of gender.  And I have and still don't believe that people that are biological males should be using a bathroom/changing room with a biological female (especially minors).  Those two societal norms can both be "right" or okay.  If you think they can't then that is on you.

As for the "proof", are you and the authors seriously saying that just because a biological male or female who has to use a single stall or a bathroom based on their biological sex endangers their health, safety, and wellbeing???  Seriously??  If someone is so hurt because they have to use a certain bathroom then it isn't about what someone else is doing to them, it is that they have a severe mental health issue and hopefully they get the help they clearly need!  Not to mention, how does it impact their safety??  Care to share any numbers of where a biological male used a bathroom assigned to be used by biological males was injured by doing so.  You provided ZERO evidence other than saying emotional statements.

Why do I need to look up cis...what is it?  Is that term used in biological sciences literature??

You bringing up a rare genetic disorder helps your "argument" and proves me wrong how??  As far as I am concerned, if someone is born with female genitalia and are raised female their whole life than they are female and vice versa.  Does this mean we should change WHOLISTIC societal norms or laws...NO!!  Does it mean biological men should compete in biological woman sports...NO!!!!

Have you ever been able to have a debate with someone to truly understand their take on things without always looking how you or someone else can be a victim and the person has some nefarious motives??  Have you ever said...well I disagree with you but that is okay you are entitled to your opinion??

I apologize. Going back to look at it, another poster mentioned that they are afraid. Not you. I'll take that back. 

What's not true is your take on the situation. If an XY person that passes as a female uses a bathroom/locker room is that something that should not be allowed to happen? Why? And its not a norms thing, those are just made up and change with the wind. Speaking of evidence, you have none and I have provided some from the AMA that kills your position. 

Societal norms are not that important. Passing laws for good reasons is what holds society together. And holding those accountable so everyone is feels equal. XX and XY bathrooms are not law and you suggest that it should be. Then you will need to check genitals at every bathroom. I'll bet you would disagree with that for your kids. 

You're clearly not accepting of trans people because you are refusing to accept this part of their lives. They have not been shown to be a danger to anyone by using the bathroom they feel represents them. Again, you have not provided evidence to the contrary that rises to the level that this should be legislated and you won't. It doesn't exist. 

About your response to the article: this is a response from a privileged person that cannot see themselves in anyone else's shoes. The bathroom conversation is just one in of a number of issues that trans people have to deal with that you clearly don't. Yet you are unwilling or unable to give them grace and understand their plight. You are shameful, but I doubt you can feel that sensation based on this and all previous comments. You are desperately holding to your position for fear of being called a hypocrite that you are passing along horrible ideas of humanity to another generation. That will need to be addressed and undone. But not after causing more harm to those in marginalized communities for the crime of mildly inconveniencing you in a bathroom. You are a clown. And you are questioning the AMA. Rather than saying, 'Seriously' produce some evidence that might prove them wrong. Or shut up.  

I have provided evidence. Evidence that you don't like because is proves my point. Now you move the goal posts rather than admit defeat. Pretty typical for a cliche such as yourself. 

You said XX and XY should stick to their bathrooms despite how they present themselves. So yes, those genetic anomalies would, by your logic, force them to use the bathroom of the gender they do not present as in their lives. Which moots your point. 

There are no such thing as women's sports. Just sports. BTW boys and girls play in each others' sports all the time and not that often. Especially as they grow in age and skill level. You have a solution in search of a problem. Again, typical fear response for someone that clearly refuses to try to branch out and learn anything about the conversation they are interested in having. 

After being proven to have a position that puts people in danger. You refuse to admit it. And refuse to change your mind. You are, actively, wanting people to be harmed for using a room. That is nefarious. You have no remorse for what will happen if a marginalized group continues to be marginalized. I am not a victim and never have suggested it. But society has deemed this group to be different and up until recently, refused to offer even a bit of solace or comfort for them in the way of legislation or even acknowledgement. That you refuse to admit that being a member of a marginalized group is detrimental to one's health and showing no sympathy or empathy for that. It is clear you don't care. Despite you trying to convince yourself that you do. And that's what THIS is, I feel. A way to try to convince yourself that you aren't the monster that your words have shown you to really be. 

I do have my opinion. And my opinion will win. And I think you know it. And you're terrified of what else you might lose.  

[mspart]

27 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

The fear is palpable. Y'all are just terrified. 

Yes TPT, we know you want men to compete against women in women's sports.   Yes, we know you want the state to waste money supplying school boys feminine products that they can't use.  

It's not being terrified.   It was called common sense not too long ago.   But we are now enlightened to the fact that men should be able to compete against women and use their lavatory and locker room facilities without question.   Something most women are not comfortable with.   Again, a situation laughable not too long ago, even by you.  

mspart

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I apologize. Going back to look at it, another poster mentioned that they are afraid. Not you. I'll take that back. 

What's not true is your take on the situation. If an XY person that passes as a female uses a bathroom/locker room is that something that should not be allowed to happen? Why? And its not a norms thing, those are just made up and change with the wind. Speaking of evidence, you have none and I have provided some from the AMA that kills your position. 

Societal norms are not that important. Passing laws for good reasons is what holds society together. And holding those accountable so everyone is feels equal. XX and XY bathrooms are not law and you suggest that it should be. Then you will need to check genitals at every bathroom. I'll bet you would disagree with that for your kids. 

You're clearly not accepting of trans people because you are refusing to accept this part of their lives. They have not been shown to be a danger to anyone by using the bathroom they feel represents them. Again, you have not provided evidence to the contrary that rises to the level that this should be legislated and you won't. It doesn't exist. 

About your response to the article: this is a response from a privileged person that cannot see themselves in anyone else's shoes. The bathroom conversation is just one in of a number of issues that trans people have to deal with that you clearly don't. Yet you are unwilling or unable to give them grace and understand their plight. You are shameful, but I doubt you can feel that sensation based on this and all previous comments. You are desperately holding to your position for fear of being called a hypocrite that you are passing along horrible ideas of humanity to another generation. That will need to be addressed and undone. But not after causing more harm to those in marginalized communities for the crime of mildly inconveniencing you in a bathroom. You are a clown. And you are questioning the AMA. Rather than saying, 'Seriously' produce some evidence that might prove them wrong. Or shut up.  

I have provided evidence. Evidence that you don't like because is proves my point. Now you move the goal posts rather than admit defeat. Pretty typical for a cliche such as yourself. 

You said XX and XY should stick to their bathrooms despite how they present themselves. So yes, those genetic anomalies would, by your logic, force them to use the bathroom of the gender they do not present as in their lives. Which moots your point. 

There are no such thing as women's sports. Just sports. BTW boys and girls play in each others' sports all the time and not that often. Especially as they grow in age and skill level. You have a solution in search of a problem. Again, typical fear response for someone that clearly refuses to try to branch out and learn anything about the conversation they are interested in having. 

After being proven to have a position that puts people in danger. You refuse to admit it. And refuse to change your mind. You are, actively, wanting people to be harmed for using a room. That is nefarious. You have no remorse for what will happen if a marginalized group continues to be marginalized. I am not a victim and never have suggested it. But society has deemed this group to be different and up until recently, refused to offer even a bit of solace or comfort for them in the way of legislation or even acknowledgement. That you refuse to admit that being a member of a marginalized group is detrimental to one's health and showing no sympathy or empathy for that. It is clear you don't care. Despite you trying to convince yourself that you do. And that's what THIS is, I feel. A way to try to convince yourself that you aren't the monster that your words have shown you to really be. 

I do have my opinion. And my opinion will win. And I think you know it. And you're terrified of what else you might lose.  

AGAIN....show me evidence...ANY evidence of how a trans woman (who is biologically male) was so injured/hurt/etc. from using a male bathroom.  On the other side of the coin...you are only worried about what the trans person thinks and not when it makes a biological male or female uncomfortable...or unsafe???

"There are no such thing as women sports"   Are f'ing serious??  LOL!!!!  Man what world do you live in??  Why do we have the NBA and the WNBA??  Why do we see no women running backs, linemen, safeties, quarterbacks, etc. in the NFL??  Why aren't there any women in MLB???  Have you heard Serna Williams talk on this subject??  Have you heard what she said about playing Roger Federer??

 

As for the rest of your babble...all you do is provide emotional statements...you provide no proof, no evidence, nothing.  You don't answer questions. You accuse me of being or feeling something I am not, and make you useless and baseless points.  Thus proving you can't truly listen to what someone is saying and try to understand and not instantly assume they mean something other than what they actually said.  Funny part is you claim your point will "win"..."win" what??  Biological males will never become biological females and biological females will never become biological males.  People can dress however they feel.  People will always need mental health treatment.

 

[mspart]

39 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

AGAIN....show me evidence...ANY evidence of how a trans woman (who is biologically male) was so injured/hurt/etc. from using a male bathroom.  On the other side of the coin...you are only worried about what the trans person thinks and not when it makes a biological male or female uncomfortable...or unsafe???

Such people are not worthy of consideration BB.  In all the lead up to where we are now, it started with someone doesn't feel safe or is uncomfortable because of something that was said.   They need their own rooms to go to to unwind.   They need to not have anyone contrary to their opinions on campus to share another opinion.    Now we have TPT saying that that same logic should not, cannot, must not be used for those feeling uncomfortable or unsafe when using the wrong bathroom.   Sorry TPT, you can't have it both ways.   It is either right or wrong to make all people feel uncomfortable or not feel safe.   Which is it?

mspart

[ThreePointTakedown]

18 hours ago, mspart said:

Yes TPT, we know you want men to compete against women in women's sports.   Yes, we know you want the state to waste money supplying school boys feminine products that they can't use.  

It's not being terrified.   It was called common sense not too long ago.   But we are now enlightened to the fact that men should be able to compete against women and use their lavatory and locker room facilities without question.   Something most women are not comfortable with.   Again, a situation laughable not too long ago, even by you.  

mspart

Yup. 

Trying to insinuate that the most extreme example is, in fact, the norm. Typical overblowing a situation to feed your own fear and in so doing justify it to yourself and others. Shows you know nothing about it but are more than willing to take the most extreme position. 

Question: do you happen to know what indoctrination is? (hint, reread the paragraph above)

 

[Bigbrog]

After reading how you claim every person is somehow "afraid" just because they have a different opinion than you @ThreePointTakedown, one can only assume that YOU are the person that is afraid...what is it you are afraid of???  Maybe talking about it will help...

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

AGAIN....show me evidence...ANY evidence of how a trans woman (who is biologically male) was so injured/hurt/etc. from using a male bathroom.  On the other side of the coin...you are only worried about what the trans person thinks and not when it makes a biological male or female uncomfortable...or unsafe???

"There are no such thing as women sports"   Are f'ing serious??  LOL!!!!  Man what world do you live in??  Why do we have the NBA and the WNBA??  Why do we see no women running backs, linemen, safeties, quarterbacks, etc. in the NFL??  Why aren't there any women in MLB???  Have you heard Serna Williams talk on this subject??  Have you heard what she said about playing Roger Federer??

 

As for the rest of your babble...all you do is provide emotional statements...you provide no proof, no evidence, nothing.  You don't answer questions. You accuse me of being or feeling something I am not, and make you useless and baseless points.  Thus proving you can't truly listen to what someone is saying and try to understand and not instantly assume they mean something other than what they actually said.  Funny part is you claim your point will "win"..."win" what??  Biological males will never become biological females and biological females will never become biological males.  People can dress however they feel.  People will always need mental health treatment.

 

Yup. Doing exactly what you are accusing me of. Not addressing my points. Unlike how I responded to you. You've lost the argument. You are a horrible person based on your beliefs about people. And now you are trying to discredit the person that has proven you wrong so you can desperately hold on to your abhorrent ideas. Please talk to a trans person and actually get some info on the topic. I know you won't because of your fear but hears to hoping. 

Best of luck.