Sanderson, by weight class

[Lleynor]

Many of us, including myself, consider Cael as the greatest Collegiate Wrestler. 159-0 pretty much speaks for itself. 

However, would you say he's the greatest 184 of all time? 197? 

I heard a discussion on ESPN this morning talking about the best at each position in the NFL respectively, and made me curious of the best of all time at each weight. I'm not stating the best individual season at each weight, but who was considered the best for a career at each. I guess one could look at individual seasons as well. Just curious of others opinions. 

Edited June 5 by Lleynor

[Truzzcat]

125: Spencer

133: Stieber 

141: Yianni

149: Zain

157: Pat Smith

165: Dake

174: Carter

184: Cael

197: Brooks 

285: Gable

[Lleynor]

I question Gable personally. He got beat twice by another 1-time Champ in one season. No one denies his talent though. 

[WrestlingFan89]

5 minutes ago, Lleynor said:

I question Gable personally. He got beat twice by another 1-time Champ in one season. No one denies his talent though. 

Most of the guys he listed took losses, and they weren’t all to a national champion as an 18 year old true freshman.

Edited June 5 by WrestlingFan89

[nhs67]

33 minutes ago, Lleynor said:

I question Gable personally. He got beat twice by another 1-time Champ in one season. No one denies his talent though. 

You questioning a soft looking, 245lb true frosh is legitimate.

You questioning the 260lb version that beat Parris in the '21 finals, let alone the 265lb version that beat Schultzy in '22 is just plain silly.  There isn't a better or more athletic heavyweight than either of those versions of Steveson, ever. 

If you are talking best career, that is different - perhaps.  Maybe not, though.  If you are talking the best heavyweight ever, the answer for 1 and 2 are the same guy.

[nhs67]

@Lleynor, what heavyweight career do you think is better than Stevesons?

[nhs67]

Here is a list that is handy to look at, FWIW...

https://www.jerseywrestling.com/news.php?story=Top 115 Heavyweights in NCAA History

[Truzzcat]

I would not take any wrestler peak for peak over Gable however considering he did not use his final year of eligibility I think Snyder, Mocco, Hasselrig, Neal are fine arguments. I am also 100% recency biased I think the first time I Followed Ncaa wrestling was when I was in 4th grade when Nico made the finals as a true frosh, I was a big Nico guy.

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

I would not take any wrestler peak for peak over Gable however considering he did not use his final year of eligibility I think Snyder, Mocco, Hasselrig, Neal are fine arguments. I am also 100% recency biased I think the first time I Followed Ncaa wrestling was when I was in 4th grade when Nico made the finals as a true frosh, I was a big Nico guy.

Steveson was also one of, if not the, heaviest favorites in the cancelled year.  In any sane eye, for arguments sake, he should be considered 2, 1, 1, 1.  Not giving those respects is purely ignorance, hate, or a toxic and convenient combination of both.

[Hammerlock3]

59 minutes ago, Lleynor said:

I question Gable personally. He got beat twice by another 1-time Champ in one season. No one denies his talent though. 

yeah but gable is the only one on the list who was definitely not the best guy at his weight for a whole year.

[Truzzcat]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

Steveson was also one of, if not the, heaviest favorites in the cancelled year.  In any sane eye, for arguments sake, he should be considered 2, 1, 1, 1.  Not giving those respects is purely ignorance, hate, or a toxic and convenient combination of both.

To me he wrestled at a time where I think Heavyweight is the strongest it's ever been I mean he won two fields with guys that went on to win NCAA titles as well as beating a multiple time world team member in one of his finals. I am by no means arguing against Gable honestly when making those pics he was one of my more confident guys. Dake was a hard rank given he did it at 4 weights, but I think 3 wins over DT in a single season warrants the spot. If MM runs the table the next 3 years which feels extremely likely I think he would eclipse that spot but until then I feel ok with Dake. I also thought about Imar but as good as cenzo was two finals losses to him really dings him to me.

[Truzzcat]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

yeah but gable is the only one on the list who was definitely not the best guy at his weight for a whole year.

AB was well behind Zain his RS fresh year imo but covid.

[Hammerlock3]

Just now, Truzzcat said:

AB was well behind Zain his RS fresh year imo but covid.

it wasn't but covid it was but Zahid's character issues took him out. To me that counts, I'm not gonna write in zahid for another title because he wasn't eligible.

[JVStateChamp]

20 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

@Lleynor, what heavyweight career do you think is better than Stevesons?

I would say Snyder has a pretty good argument for a better heavyweight career. Has an Olympic gold medal and 3-time NCAA champion. 

[nhs67]

33 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

To me he wrestled at a time where I think Heavyweight is the strongest it's ever been I mean he won two fields with guys that went on to win NCAA titles as well as beating a multiple time world team member in one of his finals. I am by no means arguing against Gable honestly when making those pics he was one of my more confident guys. Dake was a hard rank given he did it at 4 weights, but I think 3 wins over DT in a single season warrants the spot. If MM runs the table the next 3 years which feels extremely likely I think he would eclipse that spot but until then I feel ok with Dake. I also thought about Imar but as good as cenzo was two finals losses to him really dings him to me.

Scultzy and Parris are both multiple time team members, fwiw.

[nhs67]

30 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

I would say Snyder has a pretty good argument for a better heavyweight career. Has an Olympic gold medal and 3-time NCAA champion. 

In which he lost his senior season to a guy who never won a title, then scraped by him two other times after that.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Lleynor said:

However, would you say he's the greatest 184 of all time? 197? 

Yes

2 hours ago, Lleynor said:

 Cael as the greatest Collegiate Wrestler. 

Well Uetake might have something to say about that.

 

BTW: thought this was a Sanderson 184/197 thread, what happened?  

[JVStateChamp]

19 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

In which he lost his senior season to a guy who never won a title, then scraped by him two other times after that.

Their careers are very similar Snyder is a 4x finalist and 3x Champ, while Gable is a 2x Champion and has a 3rd place finish (I would also assume that had the 2020 year happened Gable would have won) But there is definitely an argument to be made that Snyder is the best heavyweight. 

[ionel]

12 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

Their careers are very similar Snyder is a 4x finalist and 3x Champ, while Gable is a 2x Champion and has a 3rd place finish (I would also assume that had the 2020 year happened Gable would have won) But there is definitely an argument to be made that Snyder is the best heavyweight. 

I always assumed if Hutton had a different ref finals Jr year he would've won thus no one would've cared about Cael and Penn St would still only have one title.  

[JVStateChamp]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

I always assumed if Hutton had a different ref finals Jr year he would've won thus no one would've cared about Cael and Penn St would still only have one title.  

I am perfectly fine with not assuming that Gable would have won that year, I am more in favor of Snyder having a better career. But when you list accolades it is important to add the caveat that Gable did not have the opportunity of a national tournament in one of his four years. 

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

I am perfectly fine with not assuming that Gable would have won that year, I am more in favor of Snyder having a better career. But when you list accolades it is important to add the caveat that Gable did not have the opportunity of a national tournament in one of his four years. 

But he did, he was still eligible to wrestle another year and chose not to. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

15 minutes ago, ionel said:

I always assumed if Hutton had a different ref finals Jr year he would've won thus no one would've cared about Cael and Penn St would still only have one title.  

And if he had a different ref senior year, he would have lost.

[ionel]

Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

And if he had a different ref senior year, he would have lost.

Hey now ... this is my "assumption" not yours.  

[TNwrestling]

Snyder most definitely had that better finals matches opponents. His match vs Gwiz is an all timer. 

[Lleynor]

28 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

Snyder most definitely had that better finals matches opponents. His match vs Gwiz is an all timer. 

If Gwiz would've won, he may be getting the recognition. 

That was a great match. 

And by no means am I saying Gable isn't worthy, but it isn't clear as day IMO. Granted, he Majored a future Hodge like it was nothing. That, in itself, is extremely impressive. But, he is a 2xer. There are 3xers. Snyder is who I was thinking about in consideration.