Examples of wrestlers getting WORSE as they got more fit?

[poke1]

I like this thread topic without the last part of "getting better fit".  If we list just wrestler that got worse over their careers, there should be a bigger list.  To start I think of Okla state guys like Joe Smith an Wittlake. Who from your school did you see fade in their careers?

[jackwebster]

8 hours ago, poke1 said:

I like this thread topic without the last part of "getting better fit".  If we list just wrestler that got worse over their careers, there should be a bigger list.  To start I think of Okla state guys like Joe Smith an Wittlake. Who from your school did you see fade in their careers?

Bubba Jenkins got worse then better. I kid. I think he stayed the same. Most kids do whether they place higher at NCAAs or not: Gelogaev, Heil, Fix, Kindig ...

 

Edited May 29 by jackwebster

[Truzzcat]

most instances of guys getting worse I think is simply injury related, shak rasheed and kaid brock come to mind maybe max dean to an extent.

[Wildcat92]

A guy like Joe Lee comes to mind.  He held wins over guys like David Carr and Shane Griffith prior to entering college.  He basically made the line up one time and qualified for NCAA's but was never heard from again.

[Twooooo]

12 hours ago, poke1 said:

I like this thread topic without the last part of "getting better fit".  If we list just wrestler that got worse over their careers, there should be a bigger list.  To start I think of Okla state guys like Joe Smith an Wittlake. Who from your school did you see fade in their careers?

Joey Slayton comes to mind, although I am not sure if he got worse or if his first year was just luck.

Alex Tsirtsis is another one but again, I am not sure he got "worse" in college, I just know he was a very high recruit coming out of high school.

Didn't one of the Alton brothers fade out at the end of his career?

[11986]

unfortunately, there have been many great wrestlers who had diminishing returns (going off NCAA tournament placings) over the course of their careers, as mentioned earlier very often due to injuries. Dustin Schlatter and Troy Letter are two that come to mind. 

[NM1965]

How is it possible for a guy to get worse as he gets fitter? The more fit you are the better your cardio, strength, and agility. Nobody wrestles better when they are fat (although I had a pretty good record at HWT ). 

 

[Wildcat92]

The techniques that a big fat heavyweight uses to win matches is very different that a leaner, muscular heavyweight.    Take a fat guy, have him drop 30 lbs or so and he basically is reinventing himself as a wrestler as the techniques, etc that he used as a fat guy are different from what he has to use as a smaller guy.

[jackwebster]

2 hours ago, Twooooo said:

Didn't one of the Alton brothers fade out at the end of his career?

 

Edited May 29 by jackwebster
Joke in poor taste. My bad.

[NM1965]

1 hour ago, Wildcat92 said:

The techniques that a big fat heavyweight uses to win matches is very different that a leaner, muscular heavyweight.    Take a fat guy, have him drop 30 lbs or so and he basically is reinventing himself as a wrestler as the techniques, etc that he used as a fat guy are different from what he has to use as a smaller guy.

You are definitely right on that. Most fatties are content to lock up and push. There's a reason they are referred to as "dancing bears" by lots of fans. I have only seen a couple guys move from HWT to a lighter weight (Zabriskie, Cass), and neither came close to matching their previous success. That's because HWT technique sucks balls and when those guys dropped to a lighter, healthier weight they had to compete against guys who actually knew how to wrestle.  I've always maintained that a good 190 pounder will beat a good HWT, and that's historically proven to be the case since the days of unlimited HWT ended. Yeah, a 195 pound HWT had a thin chance of beating somebody like Tab Thacker at 400 pounds, but a 285 pounder is within striking range.  Tony Cassar, a guy who couldn't even start at 197 pounds at PSU, moved up to HWT and beat Gable Steveson, widely acclaimed as a great college HWT, twice. And neither match was a nailbiter, either. Kyle Snyder was a 197 pounder and won 3 NCAA titles at HWT, usually teching the fat boys he wrestled. I myself had a 13-1 record against HWTs when I was a 190 pounder back in the Bronze Age and I was certainly no Cassar or Snyder. I was just faster, smarter, and a better wrestler than my HWT opponents were. Savvy counts! 

HWTS suck at wrestling, is what I'm saying. The ironic thing is they also tend to be the coolest guys on the team, at least in my experience! 

 

 

 

[NM1965]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:28 AM, flyingcement said:

I would argue that Cassioppi got better during that period, but Kerkvliet got a lot better.  He's not worth responding to but while we're here, the premise is flawed because there are two moving targets and he is asserting a conclusion based on generating controversy

Kerk is a lot better wrestler now than when Cass was beating him, for sure. The question I have is would Cass have improved more in the PSU room? Of that I have little doubt the answer is "yes".  I'm wondering if the big boy Iowa has waiting in the wings at HWT will be the stud everybody is predicting, or if he'll disappoint. Sorry, can't remember his name but I think he won a Cadet world title or something while in HS. 

[scourge165]

On 5/29/2024 at 9:29 AM, NM1965 said:

How is it possible for a guy to get worse as he gets fitter? The more fit you are the better your cardio, strength, and agility. Nobody wrestles better when they are fat (although I had a pretty good record at HWT ). 

 

Shit, I could have just waited and won a few NCAA Titles!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 5/29/2024 at 12:31 PM, NM1965 said:

Kerk is a lot better wrestler now than when Cass was beating him, for sure. The question I have is would Cass have improved more in the PSU room? Of that I have little doubt the answer is "yes".  I'm wondering if the big boy Iowa has waiting in the wings at HWT will be the stud everybody is predicting, or if he'll disappoint. Sorry, can't remember his name but I think he won a Cadet world title or something while in HS. 

U20 world title  before his senior year.  That is pretty good.  Just made another U20 team this weekend.

If he "disappoints," it's probably because he splits time with football, not because of anything involving coaching and development.  He will probably need to put on a little size, though.

[Truzzcat]

5 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

U20 world title  before his senior year.  That is pretty good.  Just made another U20 team this weekend.

If he "disappoints," it's probably because he splits time with football, not because of anything involving coaching and development.  He will probably need to put on a little size, though.

when he was asked about football he seemed that he was still doing it but maybe not as all in. He mentioned they were returning 3 linebackers and that he hoped he would get some special teams time.