Defining ‘Generational Talent’

[Dark Energy]

I see this term, ‘Generational Talent’ thrown around quite a bit.  I would suggest too often.

What do you all think it means?

I think it means the best of the best … the kind of best that you see in a person once every 20 years or so.  20 years being a reasonable time frame for a ‘generation.’

This is a very high bar.  Perhaps golf’s Nicklaus and Woods. I want to say John Smith to Jordan Burroughs but there have been some fast followers behind JB.  

Many seem to think there are generational talents popping up every year.  E.g.,  Referring to Aaron Brooks as a generational talent.  To me, that makes no sense.  Kind of like how many people (such as my kids) use the word ‘literally’ … they don’t seem to know the meaning of the word.

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

When does a generation start though?

[boconnell]

It's a dumb term that the sports world has applied to a really good prospect.  By definition it should mean a guy who comes along once a generation (20+ years).  

[Hammerlock3]

As far as high school goes kolat was one. The top kids now are great obviously but there is like 1/2 dozen of em, from what I can tell kolat wildly out of proportion.

[peanut]

It's a term that doesn't have much meaning, much like...

• "GOAT"
• "metric ****ton"
• "I **** you not" [followed by wild speculation]
• "Hell, even ..." [followed by the only example the poster knows]

Edited April 26 by peanut

[jackwebster]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

As far as high school goes kolat was one. 

What do you think happened in the Bono match? Did they ever wrestle agai?

Edited April 27 by jackwebster

[Hammerlock3]

6 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

What do you think happened in the Bono match? Did they ever wrestle agai?

i don't think they ever did. I know kolat went to senior nationals looking for him but I think he lost to chandler (msu coach?) before then.

My take on that without going into match analysis, is that wrestling is really hard and sometimes stuff doesn't work out. His total body of work though seems like it was an anachronism.

Edited April 27 by Hammerlock3

[wrestle87]

4 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

I see this term, ‘Generational Talent’ thrown around quite a bit.  I would suggest too often.

What do you all think it means?

I think it means the best of the best … the kind of best that you see in a person once every 20 years or so.  20 years being a reasonable time frame for a ‘generation.’

This is a very high bar.  Perhaps golf’s Nicklaus and Woods. I want to say John Smith to Jordan Burroughs but there have been some fast followers behind JB.  

Many seem to think there are generational talents popping up every year.  E.g.,  Referring to Aaron Brooks as a generational talent.  To me, that makes no sense.  Kind of like how many people (such as my kids) use the word ‘literally’ … they don’t seem to know the meaning of the word.

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

Uh…brooks was a 4x champ up with the big boys and just dethroned the olympic champion at his weight.  Last time that happened was…Cael?

That was a generation ago, sounds generational to me.

It really depends on scope though.  If you say talent out of maryland, yes generational talent.  Takent out of the PSU room? Well, he kinda just did what was expected.

To be honest to the word, generational talents in coaching would be gable and cael, and on the mat would be baumgartner, smith, jb, snyder, saitiev, and sadulaev.

[BIGTENFANBOY]

1 minute ago, wrestle87 said:

Uh…brooks was a 4x champ up with the big boys and just dethroned the olympic champion at his weight.  Last time that happened was…Cael?

That was a generation ago, sounds generational to me.

It really depends on scope though.  If you say talent out of maryland, yes generational talent.  Takent out of the PSU room? Well, he kinda just did what was expected.

To be honest to the word, generational talents in coaching would be gable and cael, and on the mat would be baumgartner, smith, jb, snyder, saitiev, and sadulaev.

Synder's from Maryland

[Eagle26]

4 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

I see this term, ‘Generational Talent’ thrown around quite a bit.  I would suggest too often.

What do you all think it means?

I think it means the best of the best … the kind of best that you see in a person once every 20 years or so.  20 years being a reasonable time frame for a ‘generation.’

This is a very high bar.  Perhaps golf’s Nicklaus and Woods. I want to say John Smith to Jordan Burroughs but there have been some fast followers behind JB.  

Many seem to think there are generational talents popping up every year.  E.g.,  Referring to Aaron Brooks as a generational talent.  To me, that makes no sense.  Kind of like how many people (such as my kids) use the word ‘literally’ … they don’t seem to know the meaning of the word.

Thoughts?

That’s easy to define… a generational talent is someone who is GOATed

[wrestle87]

3 hours ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Synder's from Maryland

He is, but before those two, how many world-level studs appeared out of maryland?

I mentally take the average across time since ~1970 and today, and if it gets more crowded than one for every 20 years, not a generational talent.

I don’t know any Maryland wrestling history prior to snyder.

[PortaJohn]

10 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

He is, but before those two, how many world-level studs appeared out of maryland?

I mentally take the average across time since ~1970 and today, and if it gets more crowded than one for every 20 years, not a generational talent.

I don’t know any Maryland wrestling history prior to snyder.

Hawkeye's Rico Chiapparelli is name to look up and watch some match videos on youtube.  His approach & style of wrestling was innovative and fun to watch.  

Edited April 27 by PortaJohn

[PUWrestler]

The term "generational talent" should be a trailing indicator, not a leading one.

[AgaveMaria]

Yep, and how many generations does one have to live in a place to be considered "native" and not an immigrant?

[pokemonster]

Great question, I would think it's a person who's exceptionally good and the best of the past 15-20 years or so. So good they stick out from the rest. I don't think Brooks can be defined that yet. Gable is probably one. Snyder for sure. Mike Trout. And then you got guys like Shohei Ohtani who is what, a once in a lifetime talent? 

[Paul158]

On 4/26/2024 at 7:01 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

As far as high school goes kolat was one. The top kids now are great obviously but there is like 1/2 dozen of em, from what I can tell kolat wildly out of proportion.

Yes. He was placing in the MIdlands tournament while in high school when it was loaded with Olympians, Former NCAA Champions and Current ones, Former NCAA all-American's and Current all-American's. The current Midlands tournament is shell of its former self.

[Paul158]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:21 PM, jackwebster said:

What do you think happened in the Bono match? Did they ever wrestle agai?

Didn't Kolat go up 2 weight classes to wrestle (challenge) Bono?

[11986]

Re Maryland wrestling - Lloyd Keaser was world champ in ‘73

[jackwebster]

2 hours ago, Paul158 said:

Didn't Kolat go up 2 weight classes to wrestle (challenge) Bono?

I know it was at least one. Perhaps, that had something to do with what looked like Kolat's conditioning issue, I.e moving a bigger guy around took it out of him. But, Kolat often looked like this in his few loses. An archetypal pinner, Kolat would sprint from the gun to put the guy down or at least run up the score. If he couldn't, he would fade quickly. Again, this was rare bc he usually got it over with quick. 

After reading that (SI?) article (you know the one relating the cattle prod story?), I always wondered if there were environmental causes for the apparent conditioning issues (e.g. the chain-smoking dad). 

[11986]

Kolat and Bono wrestled at the Dapper Dan at 135. Same weight Cary won his 4th title. Cary went 140 at NHSCA tournament to go after Bono. Iirc Bono lost in quarters then Roger Chandler beat that guy in semis. Kolat then beat Chandler in finals. They would wrestle again in NCAA finals in ‘97. 
Vague recall of Bono beating Kolat one year at US open or trials, shortly after the weights switched from 138/152 (Kolat was in Olympics at 138) to 132/145.5 and they met at 145.5. 

[jackwebster]

1 hour ago, 11986 said:

Kolat and Bono wrestled at the Dapper Dan at 135.

Ohh. Thanks for the correction. I always assumed that "135" was just a place holder for the match . . . like they had arranged a catch weight. 

[11986]

56 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Ohh. Thanks for the correction. I always assumed that "135" was just a place holder for the match . . . like they had arranged a catch weight. 

Now what I don’t know is if there was a generous weight allowance or what weight Bono wrestled his senior year. He might have been able to wrestle 135 at this event coming down from a heavier weight. But I don’t that for sure. 

[William Lang]

For the amount of time I've followed the sport, maybe Cael, Dake, Synder, Brooks? A generation in school terms could be about 5-7 years, or a full college term + redshirt/olympic/greyshirt? so from roughly 2000-2024 that seems doable.

edit: added Dake

Edited April 28 by William Lang
left out Dake

[Paul158]

5 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I know it was at least one. Perhaps, that had something to do with what looked like Kolat's conditioning issue, I.e moving a bigger guy around took it out of him. But, Kolat often looked like this in his few loses. An archetypal pinner, Kolat would sprint from the gun to put the guy down or at least run up the score. If he couldn't, he would fade quickly. Again, this was rare bc he usually got it over with quick. 

After reading that (SI?) article (you know the one relating the cattle prod story?), I always wondered if there were environmental causes for the apparent conditioning issues (e.g. the chain-smoking dad). 

I missed the cattle prod story. But from what I have read and heard about his dad I can only imagine what his dad did.

[11986]

The cattle prod story was part of a Flo feature I think not that old SI article. Apparently Cary wasn’t great at getting out from bottom at some point and dad utilized some….creative….methods to correct that.