Hawkeyes finish 4th

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/11/2024 at 8:35 PM, Rassling said:

It’s like a lot of the late 1980’s reruns. America is fresh out of new ideas so they replay what we already know. Ask the fans at the recent PIAAs. No one gives a crap about yesterday’s news. We want to see more current wrestler documentaries like the phenomenal one they did about RBY. Perhaps then I may rejoin,  then again I doubt it.

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Didn't at least one of those guys graduate the same year as RBY? Don't you mean you want to see more PSU docs, not "more current?"

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/12/2024 at 12:03 AM, WrestlingRash said:

I will wait until I see how Iowa does at NCAAs before I am ready to say its time for the Brands Brothers to skedaddle. But, it sure is looking more and more likely that there will be pressure building on them. If they don't get top 3 at NCAAs, you'd have to think next year is their last shot to get the ship righted. Didn't Zalesky get fired for doing better than them? Its at least comparable. 

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But, with Jimmy Z, they had an heir apparent waiting in the wings.  I don't see that now. (and I'm talking about a guy with college coaching and head coaching experience as well as Olympic gold)

[Rassling]

  On 3/12/2024 at 11:56 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Didn't at least one of those guys graduate the same year as RBY? Don't you mean you want to see more PSU docs, not "more current?"

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Documentaries in general of our current crop of wrestlers from D1. Flo does do an excellent job in this area and they should do more of them.

 

 

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/12/2024 at 4:35 AM, billyhoyle said:

But is that because of good coaching by the Brands or is it Spencer Lee and transferring in talent? Do you really think Iowa is better off with Brands than if they could get Pop or Taylor/Burroughs (when their time comes after 2024). I think if Pop isn't available, then it makes sense to stick with Brands for the time being-but there's no doubt that the program is in decline.  

 

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Because everyone knows that PSU and Michigan get zero transfers . (PSU had 4 transfers this weekend; Michigan 4; Iowa also 4)

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/12/2024 at 12:05 PM, Rassling said:

Documentaries in general of our current crop of wrestlers from D1. Flo does do an excellent job in this area and they should do more of them.

 

 

 

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Lee and RBY graduated the same year.  

[WrestlingRash]

  On 3/12/2024 at 12:01 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

But, with Jimmy Z, they had an heir apparent waiting in the wings.  I don't see that now. (and I'm talking about a guy with college coaching and head coaching experience as well as Olympic gold)

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Good point

[billyhoyle]

  On 3/12/2024 at 12:06 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Because everyone knows that PSU and Michigan get zero transfers . (PSU had 4 transfers this weekend; Michigan 4; Iowa also 4)

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PSU does, but they’re also the best at developing talent. I agree that Iowa as a program is now at around the level of Michigan. It’s not a huge dropoff because of the transfers, but it’s clearly a program on the decline. 

Edited March 12, 2024 by billyhoyle

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/12/2024 at 3:18 PM, billyhoyle said:

PSU does, but they’re also the best at developing talent. I agree that Iowa as a program is now at around the level of Michigan. It’s not a huge dropoff because of the transfers, but it’s clearly a program on the decline. 

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Maybe.  They are definitely up there.  It can pretty tough to tell, because they often get the best talent to start with.

[WrestlingFan89]

  On 3/12/2024 at 12:09 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Lee and RBY graduated the same year.  

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Lee was a year ahead of RBY in high school.  Lee was the same class as Daton Fix.  RBY was same class as Steveson and Carr.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/12/2024 at 4:35 PM, WrestlingFan89 said:

Lee was a year ahead of RBY in high school.  Lee was the same class as Daton Fix.  RBY was same class as Steveson and Carr.

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Both graduated from college in 2023.

 

[WrestlingFan89]

  On 3/12/2024 at 4:37 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Both graduated from college in 2023.

 

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It’s hard to know when each graduated from college, they expired their eligibility in 2023.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/12/2024 at 4:41 PM, WrestlingFan89 said:

It’s hard to know when each graduated from college, they expired their eligibility in 2023.

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This is true.

[fishbane]

  On 3/12/2024 at 1:17 AM, TylerDurden said:

These takes are silly. 

And no, Zalesky has not "done better" than the Brands Bros. Remember, Zalesky inherited a program from Gable. Brands inherited one from Zalesky. 

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I agree, but it is closer than many think.  Zalesky had a pretty good 9 year won and winning 3 titles probably gives you a job for life just about anywhere.  If you look at the 26 season's since Gable's retirement during which there where 25 NCAA tournaments Zalesky's 9 year run at Iowa is probably the 5th best 9 year run and that's cherry picking the best 9 consecutive year period for each of the top coaches.  That's not band and 3-5 is pretty darn close.

To me the takeaway isn't to fire Brands, but that Zalesky probably didn't deserve to be run out of Iowa City like he was.  

You have tried to frame it like Zalesky had favorable timing and Brands did not, but I think that Brands had favorable timing too.  He was an assistant at Iowa and left in 2004 ahead of a particularly good high school recruiting class for the state that was graduating in 2005.  Of the top recruits in the state he got 3 out of 5 - Borschel (Brands/VT), LeClere (Brands/VT), Morningstar (Zalesky/Iowa), Mueller (Douglas/ISU), and Slaton (Brands/VT). Brands probably had eyes on the Iowa job and saw this as an opportunity to grab those recruits and jump start a program.  Hurt Iowa/Zalesky and get him closer to his goal.

Had Brands and Zalesky been on the same page Brands probably helps recruit those guys and Metcalf to Iowa City, as was his job before he left in 2004, and they all start enroll at Iowa in the fall of 2005.  Iowa likely comes out of one of those natural down periods all programs goes into and wins the same titles in 2008-2010 that they did under Brands.  Heck maybe they even win it in 2007 too, since 4 of them wouldn't have to sit out. 

[Dogbone]

  On 3/12/2024 at 6:36 PM, fishbane said:

To me the takeaway isn't to fire Brands, but that Zalesky probably didn't deserve to be run out of Iowa City like he was.  

 

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Zalesky's results after leaving Iowa City almost prove the opposite.  If he was an elite coach, he would of had more success and not be at the D2 level now. 

After Gable's recruits left, Zalesky's results don't stack up.   He inherited a great dynasty and it was behind  Minnesota and Ok St. before he left.   Brands has the 2nd best program right now and that wasn't the case when he took over.

[TylerDurden]

  On 3/12/2024 at 6:36 PM, fishbane said:

I agree, but it is closer than many think.  Zalesky had a pretty good 9 year won and winning 3 titles probably gives you a job for life just about anywhere.  If you look at the 26 season's since Gable's retirement during which there where 25 NCAA tournaments Zalesky's 9 year run at Iowa is probably the 5th best 9 year run and that's cherry picking the best 9 consecutive year period for each of the top coaches.  That's not band and 3-5 is pretty darn close.

To me the takeaway isn't to fire Brands, but that Zalesky probably didn't deserve to be run out of Iowa City like he was.  

You have tried to frame it like Zalesky had favorable timing and Brands did not, but I think that Brands had favorable timing too.  He was an assistant at Iowa and left in 2004 ahead of a particularly good high school recruiting class for the state that was graduating in 2005.  Of the top recruits in the state he got 3 out of 5 - Borschel (Brands/VT), LeClere (Brands/VT), Morningstar (Zalesky/Iowa), Mueller (Douglas/ISU), and Slaton (Brands/VT). Brands probably had eyes on the Iowa job and saw this as an opportunity to grab those recruits and jump start a program.  Hurt Iowa/Zalesky and get him closer to his goal.

Had Brands and Zalesky been on the same page Brands probably helps recruit those guys and Metcalf to Iowa City, as was his job before he left in 2004, and they all start enroll at Iowa in the fall of 2005.  Iowa likely comes out of one of those natural down periods all programs goes into and wins the same titles in 2008-2010 that they did under Brands.  Heck maybe they even win it in 2007 too, since 4 of them wouldn't have to sit out. 

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It's not my framing, it's true:

Yes, Zalesky won three titles...in 98, 99, 00, which were his first three years after inheriting the program from Gable, who had won the previous three titles and six of the last seven. 

That's a far cry from what Brands took over, which was finishes of 4, 7, 2, 8, 4.

Your data is using averages and not looking at trends. So no, it's not that close. 

Besides that, this is a vastly different environment than the late 90s. 

I won't touch your conspiracies about Brands and the Iowa job, but I don't think that helps Zalesky's case either. 

[fishbane]

  On 3/12/2024 at 7:01 PM, Dogbone said:

Zalesky's results after leaving Iowa City almost prove the opposite.  If he was an elite coach, he would of had more success and not be at the D2 level now. 

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Zalesky isn't an elite coach today, but he was in 2006 and he elevated the program at Oregon State upon his arrival.  He took them to a pair of top 10 finishes and won 7 PAC-12 titles in 14 seasons, which was 6 more than his predecessor managed in the same number of years.  

  On 3/12/2024 at 7:01 PM, Dogbone said:

After Gable's recruits left, Zalesky's results don't stack up.   He inherited a great dynasty and it was behind  Minnesota and Ok St. before he left.   Brands has the 2nd best program right now and that wasn't the case when he took over.

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You're kind of splitting hairs, but only if it favors Brands.  Iowa had fallen behind Minnesota and Ok St. - so it was the 3rd best program? And after Brands worked his magic it is now the 2nd best program?  I can scarcely believe the turnaround.  How did he ever manage to turn that ship around?  It was headed aground for sure!  The ability to take the 3rd best program and transform it into the 2nd best program really is the difference between an elite D1 coach and a D2 hack.

Seriously, Iowa being the 2nd best program is really only true over the entire course of Brands's tenure.  They have been firmly behind PSU from 2011 onward, but they were looking up at OSU from 2013-2017, Ohio State from 2015-2019, and Michigan more recently.  For whatever reason when Iowa has fallen behind these teams under Brands Iowa fans are more likely to classify it as a natural downturn that all programs experience than a dangerous trend that requires change.

[CHROMEBIRD]

  On 3/11/2024 at 10:35 PM, Le duke said:

I think you are very much underestimating the impact of severe cardiovascular stress on the brain’s ability to process information.

Hamiti died a thousand deaths out there. He overextended himself trying to go with Mesenbrink, and paid for it. I thought he was pinned and the ref was in very poor position when he was on his back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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What? I've wrestled with my own version of MM (although really, no one else is MM) and I assume you have too, but even then I'd know when it's time to go. Esp when there's a title on the line. Hamiti also has a gas tank and he wasn't gasping for air or anything, so it's crazy that he hit the wall so suddenly.

On the BTN broadcast, there was a little bit of a delay in updating the score to reflect the TD + NF, no idea if the matside scoreboard was also late, so I figured maybe he or Bono thought they were still ahead with RT. Someone on social media said Hamiti was limping off the mat and back to the locker room though, so maybe it was an injury.

Great match either way, best of the postseason so far imo.