Brittney Griner prisoner swap

[jross]

4 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

If you can write a law that makes capital punishment cheaper, with 0% error, and can't be abused, I'll hop on board. But I think it'll be a lot more difficult than looking at a few cases and saying "that one fits".

Very soon it may become impossible.  Technology is rapidly improving such that one can manufacture video evidence of an alibi, and manufacture video evidence of a crime.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

11 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

(1) Wow...how can you say you have no interest in comparing severity of a virus...seriously?!?!  How in the hell do you make your decisions on what is safe for you and what isn't?  Or do you just wait for someone else to tell you how to react and behave? 

And no shit sherlock...this isn't a game...it isn't about winning or losing other than (2) the fact that decisions are made that do in fact impact life's and livelihoods based on severity of a virus.  You going to tell all those kids who missed out on once in a lifetime opportunities you don't care who wins or loses?  Are you going to tell all those small business that went under and lost their life savings you don't care who wins or loses??  What about all the mental health issues??  How about the opiod epidemic??  How about all the things that kill people WAY more than Covid?  I am in no way downplaying Covid, and in no way dismissing anything, but if you can't see the importance of truly understanding the severity of a virus, and/or you can't see how badly this whole thing was basterdized by our politicians and the media than you truly are not worth arguing with.

I honestly think it is sad that there is even a need to debate this...it should have never gotten to this point...(3) we got screwed over by our "leaders" and "experts" for political reasons.  It should have never been overblown or undersold as to what this was and can cause.  And the reality of it all is you are probably wrong AND I am probably wrong in regard to this...that is how bad it has gotten when it shouldn't have.

(1) I very much see the point in considering the risk factor and acting appropriately for the viruses we need to contend with. But I don't see the point of comparing the details of how the virus deaths are counted. For example, I'm not too worried about HIV or smallpox because the risk factor for me is very low. The risk factor is much higher for Covid so I take the steps I feel are appropriate.

Comparing how the deaths are counted for Covid vs HIV vs smallpox - that doesn't affect my decisions. Those numbers aren't ever perfect, they are always estimates. I just don't see the point in making a big deal over them.

(2) Agree. It sucks that kids missed out, that small business went under, and everything else you've posted. But it is an unfortunate part of life. Acts of God like tornadoes and hurricanes sweep in and destroy people's lives. Car accidents, cancer, heart disease, Covid, and the list goes on and on. All awful. I also agree, many are much worse than Covid.

Did the government do a good job of dealing with Covid? No, not at all. I agree with you there also. Roughly a million people died in the US of Covid so far. I don't know how anybody could call that a success. Then again, what were we expected to do? There is no "Covid playbook" that could have been followed that had all the answers. Everyone in the country was making it up as we went along. Trump made mistakes, Fauci made mistakes, the Surgeon General made mistakes. They all tried to convey confidence to sooth worried citizens (which is their job), but none of them knew. Nobody did.

(3) This is probably the only point we disagree on. I don't think we got screwed over by our "leaders" and "experts"- I think most of them were doing the best they could, given the situation they were in. I don't think they did very well at all. But I don't think it was politically motivated for the most part. They were just in over their heads here, with no good answers. Life is like that sometimes - it puts you in a spot with no good options.

Some of the media, on the other hand, took this opportunity to rant and rave about one political party being smarter and better than the other and using the pandemic disaster to try to boost one party over the other. THOSE people are the ones that were trying to screw us over. Instead of helping us get together, they purposely tried to split us up. That was harmful, pathetic, and disgusting.

[Mike Parrish]

7 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

(1) I very much see the point in considering the risk factor and acting appropriately for the viruses we need to contend with. But I don't see the point of comparing the details of how the virus deaths are counted. For example, I'm not too worried about HIV or smallpox because the risk factor for me is very low. The risk factor is much higher for Covid so I take the steps I feel are appropriate.

Comparing how the deaths are counted for Covid vs HIV vs smallpox - that doesn't affect my decisions. Those numbers aren't ever perfect, they are always estimates. I just don't see the point in making a big deal over them.

(2) Agree. It sucks that kids missed out, that small business went under, and everything else you've posted. But it is an unfortunate part of life. Acts of God like tornadoes and hurricanes sweep in and destroy people's lives. Car accidents, cancer, heart disease, Covid, and the list goes on and on. All awful. I also agree, many are much worse than Covid.

Did the government do a good job of dealing with Covid? No, not at all. I agree with you there also. Roughly a million people died in the US of Covid so far. I don't know how anybody could call that a success. Then again, what were we expected to do? There is no "Covid playbook" that could have been followed that had all the answers. Everyone in the country was making it up as we went along. Trump made mistakes, Fauci made mistakes, the Surgeon General made mistakes. They all tried to convey confidence to sooth worried citizens (which is their job), but none of them knew. Nobody did.

(3) This is probably the only point we disagree on. I don't think we got screwed over by our "leaders" and "experts"- I think most of them were doing the best they could, given the situation they were in. I don't think they did very well at all. But I don't think it was politically motivated for the most part. They were just in over their heads here, with no good answers. Life is like that sometimes - it puts you in a spot with no good options.

Some of the media, on the other hand, took this opportunity to rant and rave about one political party being smarter and better than the other and using the pandemic disaster to try to boost one party over the other. THOSE people are the ones that were trying to screw us over. Instead of helping us get together, they purposely tried to split us up. That was harmful, pathetic, and disgusting.

About that...

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-team-left-pandemic-playbook-for-trump-administration-officials-confirm

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Just now, Mike Parrish said:

About that...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-team-left-pandemic-playbook-for-trump-administration-officials-confirm

Yes - I'm aware of that. And also aware of all the pandemic preparedness being done around the globe by other groups.

So - yes - there was a 'playbook' of sorts. Probably had a decent amount of useful information, too. But it certainly didn't have all the answers. Even the most basic things like "how is it transmitted?" couldn't have been answered - because nobody could have known yet.

Bigger picture, my point is still that we were stuck with doing the best we could with very limited knowledge.

Except some of the media, that were jumping on the opportunity to point fingers and encourage infighting. 

 

[Mike Parrish]

7 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Yes - I'm aware of that. And also aware of all the pandemic preparedness being done around the globe by other groups.

So - yes - there was a 'playbook' of sorts. Probably had a decent amount of useful information, too. But it certainly didn't have all the answers. Even the most basic things like "how is it transmitted?" couldn't have been answered - because nobody could have known yet.

Bigger picture, my point is still that we were stuck with doing the best we could with very limited knowledge.

Except some of the media, that were jumping on the opportunity to point fingers and encourage infighting. 

 

My point is that the best existing playbook was discarded by the Trump administration who then screwed EVERYTHING up.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

1 minute ago, Mike Parrish said:

My point is that the best existing playbook was discarded by the Trump administration who then screwed EVERYTHING up.

Can't argue with that. He also dismantled the group that created that playbook. He handled it all very poorly, by any measure.

Fauci and the Surgeon General telling people that they don't need to wear masks because they won't do any good was no model behavior, either. That was a major mistake, too.

None of them got a report card with an 'A'.

[BerniePragle]

35 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

(1) I very much see the point in considering the risk factor and acting appropriately for the viruses we need to contend with. But I don't see the point of comparing the details of how the virus deaths are counted. For example, I'm not too worried about HIV or smallpox because the risk factor for me is very low. The risk factor is much higher for Covid so I take the steps I feel are appropriate.

Comparing how the deaths are counted for Covid vs HIV vs smallpox - that doesn't affect my decisions. Those numbers aren't ever perfect, they are always estimates. I just don't see the point in making a big deal over them.

(2) Agree. It sucks that kids missed out, that small business went under, and everything else you've posted. But it is an unfortunate part of life. Acts of God like tornadoes and hurricanes sweep in and destroy people's lives. Car accidents, cancer, heart disease, Covid, and the list goes on and on. All awful. I also agree, many are much worse than Covid.

Did the government do a good job of dealing with Covid? No, not at all. I agree with you there also. Roughly a million people died in the US of Covid so far. I don't know how anybody could call that a success. Then again, what were we expected to do? There is no "Covid playbook" that could have been followed that had all the answers. Everyone in the country was making it up as we went along. Trump made mistakes, Fauci made mistakes, the Surgeon General made mistakes. They all tried to convey confidence to sooth worried citizens (which is their job), but none of them knew. Nobody did.

(3) This is probably the only point we disagree on. I don't think we got screwed over by our "leaders" and "experts"- I think most of them were doing the best they could, given the situation they were in. I don't think they did very well at all. But I don't think it was politically motivated for the most part. They were just in over their heads here, with no good answers. Life is like that sometimes - it puts you in a spot with no good options.

Some of the media, on the other hand, took this opportunity to rant and rave about one political party being smarter and better than the other and using the pandemic disaster to try to boost one party over the other. THOSE people are the ones that were trying to screw us over. Instead of helping us get together, they purposely tried to split us up. That was harmful, pathetic, and disgusting.

Exactly.

The complexity of the Covid epidemic was impossible to deal with perfectly.  Exactly how contagious was it, and how was it transmitted?  Exactly how did it affect different people?  Who was in contact with whom, and how were they in contact?  Even with these answers it would have been difficult to come up with a plan that some people wouldn't have disagreed with, without them it was impossible.  In lieu of a perfect plan initially, the best that could be done was a plan that changed as more info became available.  Many in the media seized this as proof that "the fix was in", that our leaders had an "agenda", and that our medical experts were inept or in on "the fix", or both.  Bottom line, this was a situation that it was probably prudent to err on the side of caution.  That should be easy to see.

This is/was not one of those things that fits into my side of the simple/complex discussion we had earlier.  The human body is a mighty complex machine.

[jross]

24 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

In lieu of a perfect plan initially, the best that could be done was a plan that changed as more info became available.

Once the CDC data indicated the difference in human risk statistics, medical experts should have been allowed to discuss the data, risks, and treatment options.  

[Nailbender]

 Trump screwed up "EVERYTHING" but Fauci and Obama tried to save us all.

 

How can anyone who isn't delusional actually believe any part of that sentence?

 

 When it comes down to it, the government can't save you from covid or anything else, NOR DOES IT CARE TO.

 

Twitter and the internet aren't the real world. The democrats and republicans don't give a shit about you. Take a break from politics, find a little perspective, seek help if needed. Maybe even watch some wrestling.

[Mike Parrish]

40 minutes ago, Nailbender said:

 Trump screwed up "EVERYTHING" but Fauci and Obama tried to save us all.

 

How can anyone who isn't delusional actually believe any part of that sentence?

 

 When it comes down to it, the government can't save you from covid or anything else, NOR DOES IT CARE TO.

 

Twitter and the internet aren't the real world. The democrats and republicans don't give a shit about you. Take a break from politics, find a little perspective, seek help if needed. Maybe even watch some wrestling.

You sound like a sophomore year edge lord.

[BerniePragle]

5 hours ago, Nailbender said:

 Trump screwed up "EVERYTHING" but Fauci and Obama tried to save us all.

 

How can anyone who isn't delusional actually believe any part of that sentence?

 

 When it comes down to it, the government can't save you from covid or anything else, NOR DOES IT CARE TO.

 

Twitter and the internet aren't the real world. The democrats and republicans don't give a shit about you. Take a break from politics, find a little perspective, seek help if needed. Maybe even watch some wrestling.

Oh no!  You mean that $800+ billion we spend each year on "defense" is wasted?  Please say it isn't so.

Now, that last part was funny.  Thanks.  After reading the problems other people on here, much better than me at such things, have with streaming, I'll pass unfortunately.  Many years ago I came up with a principle we live by... My wife and I don't pay someone to be frustrated by technology.  We both were paid very well for that at times.  If I could just click the ON button, click the CHANNEL button, and adjust the VOLUME, I'd watch a lot.  But I'm not paying someone for me to dick around with the problems they created and can't seem to solve.

Edited January 4, 2023 by BerniePragle
Added "and can't seem to solve"

[jross]

10 hours ago, Nailbender said:

Maybe even watch some wrestling.

Has the wrestling season started or is it duck season?  

[Nailbender]

4 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

Oh no!  You mean that $800+ billion we spend each year on "defense" is wasted?  Please say it isn't so.

Now, that last part was funny.  Thanks.  After reading the problems other people on here, much better than me at such things, have with streaming, I'll pass unfortunately.  Many years ago I came up with a principle we live by... My wife and I don't pay someone to be frustrated by technology.  We both were paid very well for that at times.  If I could just click the ON button, click the CHANNEL button, and adjust the VOLUME, I'd watch a lot.  But I'm not paying someone for me to dick around with the problems they created and can't seem to solve.

 

1 minute ago, jross said:

Has the wrestling season started or is it duck season?  

There's a lot of great wrestling to watch. Some involves no technology at all. I just watched the best wrestling event I've ever been to and I've been to quite a few. This one was a highschool JV meet where the kids wrestled hard, my seats were great and the popcorn was outstanding!

 

I do agree with most of what you said about technology though. Here is what hopefully won't be a long story that applies to what I said about government and what Bernie said about tech. 

My business is registered with my state, has been for over a decade. This label is important to some customers and to the state but to me it's meaningless. It is literally just a registration, no proof of insurance, no certifications of any kind. Pay your $50 and you are registered. Up until now, I've always filled out the form and mailed it in with a check. This year I decided to renew online. The process is at least 17 steps according to the instructions page. 17 steps to verify information they already have! One of the instruction steps is to ignore what you see on the screen because it's incorrect. Government at its finest.

[Nailbender]

4 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

Oh no!  You mean that $800+ billion we spend each year on "defense" is wasted?  Please say it isn't so.

.........

Sorry to have to break it to you but yeah, a lot of it is.

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, Nailbender said:

Sorry to have to break it to you but yeah, a lot of it is.

Glass houses, bud.  I'd like you to see you spend more than 800,000,000,000 dollars without wasting some! 
 

[Crotalus]

1 hour ago, Nailbender said:

Sorry to have to break it to you but yeah, a lot of it is.

Yet it's the one area of our national budget that is deemed untouchable. Often argued defense spending needs to be increased without any justification other than it means you love American more than the other guy. 

[BerniePragle]

1 hour ago, Nailbender said:

 

There's a lot of great wrestling to watch. Some involves no technology at all. I just watched the best wrestling event I've ever been to and I've been to quite a few. This one was a highschool JV meet where the kids wrestled hard, my seats were great and the popcorn was outstanding!

 

I do agree with most of what you said about technology though. Here is what hopefully won't be a long story that applies to what I said about government and what Bernie said about tech. 

My business is registered with my state, has been for over a decade. This label is important to some customers and to the state but to me it's meaningless. It is literally just a registration, no proof of insurance, no certifications of any kind. Pay your $50 and you are registered. Up until now, I've always filled out the form and mailed it in with a check. This year I decided to renew online. The process is at least 17 steps according to the instructions page. 17 steps to verify information they already have! One of the instruction steps is to ignore what you see on the screen because it's incorrect. Government at its finest.

Two great stories about the wrestling match and the govt registration fiasco.

You would probably like one of my sayings about government and big business:  Nothing's simple anymore.  If it is simple, we'll figure out a way to make it complicated.  When you combine the two, then you have $800 B defense budget, etc, etc.  Oh, the stories I could tell you...

[jross]

18 hours ago, jross said:

Once the CDC data indicated the difference in human risk statistics, medical experts should have been allowed to discuss the data, risks, and treatment options.  

 

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

11 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Glass houses, bud.  I'd like you to see you spend more than 800,000,000,000 dollars without wasting some! 
 

I'll give it a go.

Starting a gofundme right now - stop by and donate!

[BerniePragle]

23 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Yet it's the one area of our national budget that is deemed untouchable. Often argued defense spending needs to be increased without any justification other than it means you love American more than the other guy. 

I strongly suspect that simply means the defense contractors' lobbyists are better at filling the pockets of the scumbags we (somehow) keep sending to DC than some other lobbyists.  Those others are pretty good too though.

Edited January 5, 2023 by BerniePragle

[Mike Parrish]

We got another one out.
 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/12/politics/taylor-dudley-navy-veteran-released-russia/index.html

[Nailbender]

Good.

[El Luchador]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:43 PM, Mike Parrish said:

My point is that the best existing playbook was discarded by the Trump administration who then screwed EVERYTHING up.

Screwed everything up? Be real sometimes and not just a biased hack. Trump discussed the "pamphlet" he chose to utilize experts. I certainly don't know how you can say Biden had any better results.  You can look at the entire world and compare strategy and results and see the truth. Authoritarian responses were no more effective.