Joe Dubuque way over his head as HC

[feet2back]

Princeton just gets blasted by UPenn and Lehigh...lost 85-8...Great assistant but will never be a Big time HC...losing Ayres will really hurt the Princeton program and its already showing!

Edited February 18 by feet2back

[feet2back]

17 minutes ago, feet2back said:

Princeton

Also lost to Drexel and Blown out by Columbia....Has any Program faded so much in 1 season?

[D3 for LU]

Lose Ayres to Stanford... graduated Monday & Glory... forfeit 125 as the only 125'er is injured.

The Princeton Tigers are Not a having a good day, I guess.

D3

Edited February 18 by D3 for LU

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

30 minutes ago, feet2back said:

Also lost to Drexel and Blown out by Columbia....Has any Program faded so much in 1 season?

It’s sucks Princeton is down as they are always a top wrestling Ivy, but it seems as a whole the Ivy League is elevating itself. I love seeing the Ivies do well bc it’s where the brainiac wrestlers end up and these kids need the outlet to succeed at sport and academics and not choosing a state school instead due to lack of possible success. 

[feet2back]

Columbia and UPenn staffs will run circles around Joe Dubugue and his staff in Ivy...Brown and Harvard are getting better also...2/3 years Princeton will ne in basement in Ivy

7 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

It’s sucks Princeton is down as they are always a top wrestling Ivy, but it seems as a whole the Ivy League is elevating itself. I love seeing the Ivies do well bc it’s where the brainiac wrestlers end up and these kids need the outlet to succeed at sport and academics and not choosing a state school instead due to lack of possible success. 

[Southend]

22 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

It’s sucks Princeton is down as they are always a top wrestling Ivy, but it seems as a whole the Ivy League is elevating itself. I love seeing the Ivies do well bc it’s where the brainiac wrestlers end up and these kids need the outlet to succeed at sport and academics and not choosing a state school instead due to lack of possible success. 

lol.  I graduated from iu. 2 degrees thank you. Don’t hold it against me. Can you rephrase this comment for me? 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

8 minutes ago, Southend said:

lol.  I graduated from iu. 2 degrees thank you. Don’t hold it against me. Can you rephrase this comment for me? 

lucky for you I’m not a Purdue graduate that hates on IU. IU is the cooler do the two schools, Purdue is more dweeby. They also have the edge in wrestling at the moment. Other sports idk and idc about. 
 

Congrats on the degrees, I didn’t know they actually have those out at IU I thought it was all block parties and frat houses down in Bloomington. Your two degrees is probably equivalent to my one from Purdue  

[Southend]

16 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

lucky for you I’m not a Purdue graduate that hates on IU. IU is the cooler do the two schools, Purdue is more dweeby. They also have the edge in wrestling at the moment. Other sports idk and idc about. 
 

Congrats on the degrees, I didn’t know they actually have those out at IU I thought it was all block parties and frat houses down in Bloomington. Your two degrees is probably equivalent to my one from Purdue  

No explanation needed, my older and smarter sister graduated at PU. I spent many weekends there as a high schooler hanging around coeds. And I can tell you Indiana has nothing on Purdue as far as partying is concerned. 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Idk man, how long did it take Ayres to get Princeton to be competitive? I recall a lot of years with plenty of rough beatings. Plus, Princeton just lost 2 hammers. Give Dubuque some more time to try and (re)build something 

[feet2back]

12 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Idk man, how long did it take Ayres to get Princeton to be competitive? I recall a lot of years with plenty of rough beatings. Plus, Princeton just lost 2 hammers. Give Dubuque some more time to try and (re)build something 

Princeton has been a top 25 team for 5/6 years and Dubuque takes over program and cant be competive in his 1st year...Ayres took over the worst program in D1..Dubuqe will be outcoached by other Ivy League programs

[Southend]

19 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Idk man, how long did it take Ayres to get Princeton to be competitive? I recall a lot of years with plenty of rough beatings. Plus, Princeton just lost 2 hammers. Give Dubuque some more time to try and (re)build something 

Agreed 

[jdalu75]

21 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Idk man, how long did it take Ayres to get Princeton to be competitive? 

Here's one measure -- Princeton won its first dual under Ayres in his third season as head coach.

[wrestle87]

24 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Idk man, how long did it take Ayres to get Princeton to be competitive? I recall a lot of years with plenty of rough beatings. Plus, Princeton just lost 2 hammers. Give Dubuque some more time to try and (re)build something 

Yo, this right here.  Princeton was an absolute doormat for a long time.  He built teams around having Monday and Glory, who he was able to get bc both their parents said "Princeton? Really? Yeah choose life my child, not wrestling"

It is two seasons too early to bag on Dubuque when Ayres just bounced less than two months before the start of the season and just handed Dubuque the keys saying "Hey dog...here ya go!"

Dubuque is a 2x NCAA champ who is homegrown Jersey.  Ayres going all the way across the country to go to Stanford WHILE HIS DAUGHTER IS STILL AT PRINCETON very likely was a big dollar signs move.  Those moves are usually great for one person, but they burn everyone else involved in their environments.  I know guys love Ayres, and I hope this wasn't exactly the situation, but...it's Stanford, and they have a pointed track record of operating with duplicity, so...yeah, I'm going to say Dubuque was at least surprised in September.

Give Dubuque a few recruiting classes and a few full off seasons before you throw him under the bus.  

1 hour ago, feet2back said:

Also lost to Drexel and Blown out by Columbia....Has any Program faded so much in 1 season?

Princeton beat the crap out of Columbia.  They won 26-7.  Let's not go making stuff up to throw a new coach in the dirt.  Especially dirt that doesn't exist.  

Edited February 18 by wrestle87

[Southend]

Man , this is a rough crowd!

[MadMardigain]

Being HC often takes you away from some of the daily development tasks you have more time to focus on as an Assistant.  Honestly the top programs talent ceiling really shines through the skills that their assistance are able to transfer to the wrestlers.  As a new HC Joe is likely discovering a lot of elements about that positron which he only speculated about before. Bring at an Ivy League has some added struggles that some of these other programs don’t have.  Not to mention the struggle of a new coach implementing his system and figuring out how to convince the recruits to take a shot early on him. He seems to have some solid assistance at the moment so I’m guessing he just need to figure out how to new utilize their talents and we will should some progress over the next few years.  

Edited February 18 by MadMardigain

[1032004]

8 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Yo, this right here.  Princeton was an absolute doormat for a long time.  He built teams around having Monday and Glory, who he was able to get bc both their parents said "Princeton? Really? Yeah choose life my child, not wrestling"

It is two seasons too early to bag on Dubuque when Ayres just bounced less than two months before the start of the season and just handed Dubuque the keys saying "Hey dog...here ya go!"

Dubuque is a 2x NCAA champ who is homegrown Jersey.  Ayres going all the way across the country to go to Stanford WHILE HIS DAUGHTER IS STILL AT PRINCETON very likely was a big dollar signs move.  Those moves are usually great for one person, but they burn everyone else involved in their environments.  I know guys love Ayres, and I hope this wasn't exactly the situation, but...it's Stanford, and they have a pointed track record of operating with duplicity, so...yeah, I'm going to say Dubuque was at least surprised in September.

Give Dubuque a few recruiting classes and a few full off seasons before you throw him under the bus.  

Princeton beat the crap out of Columbia.  They won 26-7.  Let's not go making stuff up to throw a new coach in the dirt.  Especially dirt that doesn't exist.  

Yeah, looks like their only “bad losses” are to Drexel and Binghamton.  But they beat Rider, Harvard, and Brown.

This seems more like Ayres knew this would be a down year than the results being Dubuque’s fault 

[Rassling]

I'll never forget how I felt when Joe Dubuque beat Troy Nickerson in the NCAA finals back in the day. As a former NYer now in PA we watched Nickerson win all 5 NY state championships - first to ever do it. I recall him being humble and far from cocky while signing autographs for the youth. Coach Troy has NYer Stevo Poulin under his wing and I'm enjoying watching him slowly move up the rankings. 

[Jon_Kozak]

Judging a new coach by his first year doesn't make much sense. Dubuque has the team that coach Ayres built. What would have been different this year if Ayres stayed? 

[scribers]

Ayers meh. Princeton itself is a solid selling point. Anyone that can sniff at getting in there should definitely join that team 

[Corby]

Ayers was smart for leaving when he did. He was aware that they were in another rebuilding phase . We won't know how Dubuque will be for about 3-4 years from now. Anyone judging him on this season doesn't understand how things work or they just  don't like Dubuque. 

Edited February 18 by Corby

[PUWrestler]

As an alumnus who follows the program closely, I see encouraging signs for the future. McGowan (125) is greyshirting. Whalen (who won Midlands) and Mulhauser are taking a year off. Their current 125 pounder (Heethuis) is very good, but dropping a lot of weight. They have three freshmen starting who just need time to develop.

Not only did Ayres leave on short notice, their associate head coach Sean Gray also followed him. Give Dubuque a few years to develop this team.

 

[jagger712]

I just don't know if you can make that assessment after one season. Everyone knew if would be a down year after they lost Glory and Monday. As noted, the change did come quite late in the offseason after the Koll effect. And by the way, Koll not having a great year either so does that mean he will also fail? Princeton has had an up and down year but give Joe some time. They have some young talent to develop and a nice connection with the top team in the state with Delbarton kids constantly coming in. I just don't think you can judge an Ivy coach in his first year when they can't really play by the same rules as the rest of the conferences.

[wrestle87]

1 hour ago, PUWrestler said:

As an alumnus who follows the program closely, I see encouraging signs for the future. McGowan (125) is greyshirting. Whalen (who won Midlands) and Mulhauser are taking a year off. Their current 125 pounder (Heethuis) is very good, but dropping a lot of weight. They have three freshmen starting who just need time to develop.

Not only did Ayres leave on short notice, their associate head coach Sean Gray also followed him. Give Dubuque a few years to develop this team.

 

Dang, I didn't realize Gray left too.

I had these sort of short-notice coaching "adjustments" happen both during High School and College.  It is weak.  I understand when coaches need to do it, people have good opportunities etc, but it does send a terrible message to the wrestlers about every interaction you ever had with them. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

Dang, I didn't realize Gray left too.

I had these sort of short-notice coaching "adjustments" happen both during High School and College.  It is weak.  I understand when coaches need to do it, people have good opportunities etc, but it does send a terrible message to the wrestlers about every interaction you ever had with them. 

I had a coach pack up and leave one day and it really sucked. Sent out a text that day and was never seen again. 
 

Sucks for everyone involved but I don’t think we can blame a coach for finding better opportunities and trying to grow their career and brand.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

4 hours ago, scribers said:

Ayers meh. Princeton itself is a solid selling point. Anyone that can sniff at getting in there should definitely join that team 

100000% Princeton isn’t a hard sell for anyone that can get in.