JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, braves121 said: You do not have great reading comprehension. That states that 1 out of 5 people fatally shot have mental illness. This is not stating 1 out of 5 mentally ill people get shot You don’t even know what you just said. My gosh.
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Usually: in the manner or way that’s most usual. Typically. Ordinarily.
braves121 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 21 minutes ago, mspart said: OK, but that was not the question. How many mentally ill people are handled by police and are not shot. Your assertion was that a person with mental illness usually gets shot by police. Rather than show this irrelevant statistic, prove your assertion. Assertion: when police get involved in mental issues the person suffering from the mental illness usually gets killed by the police. Go! mspart https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-some-encounters-between-police-and-people-with-mental-illness-can-turn-tragic The 21st Century Cures Act, passed by Congress with bipartisan votes in 2016, requires the Department of Justice to collect and publish data on how often federal, state and local officers use force, how many times that force ends up being fatal and how often the deceased had a mental illness. But the law doesn’t require police departments to tell the DOJ how many people their officers killed There is no data for how many mentally ill people do not get shot by police, the law only states that they have to disclose how many deceased had a mental illness, not encountered
mspart Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 So your statement is unsubstantiated. That's all anyone on here was saying. mspart 2
Paul158 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 22 minutes ago, JimmyBT said: So where’s the number for ALL shootings involving mentally Ill people like you were originally talking about??????? Exactly. Like backing up with facts what you actually stated. It would be nice to have a little more information. Does the individual have a weapon? Has the individual already used the weapon and shot someone? Has he shot at the police? Has he already killed someone or is he threatening to kill someone? Does the individual have a history of violently uses a gun? Is there any data that answers these questions. But like I said earlier by the time someone with mental illness is an adult and has a gun ( that he shouldn't have ) and the police have to interact its way to late. It does not end well.
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 15 minutes ago, braves121 said: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-some-encounters-between-police-and-people-with-mental-illness-can-turn-tragic The 21st Century Cures Act, passed by Congress with bipartisan votes in 2016, requires the Department of Justice to collect and publish data on how often federal, state and local officers use force, how many times that force ends up being fatal and how often the deceased had a mental illness. But the law doesn’t require police departments to tell the DOJ how many people their officers killed There is no data for how many mentally ill people do not get shot by police, the law only states that they have to disclose how many deceased had a mental illness, not encountered Seems that would mean usually they don’t get shot. Huh? 1
Paul158 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Just now, JimmyBT said: Seems that would mean usually they don’t get shot. Huh? That is what the data is saying. 2
braves121 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JimmyBT said: Seems that would mean usually they don’t get shot. Huh? I mean not really they do not have to report if they shot a mentally ill person. they do have to report if a person they killed had a mental illness. Do you have to move the goalpost literally every single time? Edited February 13 by braves121
braves121 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Paul158 said: That is what the data is saying. If there is no law for police to keep data of how many people they encounter how are we supposed to get that data? How is that what the data is saying?
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, braves121 said: I mean not really they do not have to report if they shot a mentally ill person. they do have to report if a person they killed had a mental illness. Do you have to move the goalpost literally every single time? I didn’t move any goal post. You did. Cops encounter thousands of calls involving mental illness every year and don’t shoot anyone. You may want to branch out of your small control group answer.
Paul158 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 minute ago, braves121 said: If there is no law for police to keep data of how many people they encounter how are we supposed to get that data? How is that what the data is saying? I'm just messing with you. Did you see my previous post wanting more data about the actual encounter with the police. Whether he has a gun or is he actively shooting or has he already shot someone. Are there hostages involved. Sometimes the individual has mixed alcohol with their medication. It will not end well.
braves121 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) Just now, JimmyBT said: I didn’t move any goal post. You did. Cops encounter thousands of calls involving mental illness every year and don’t shoot anyone. You may want to branch out of your small control group answer. Can you give me the data where cops encounter thousands of calls involving mental illness every year and don't shoot anyone? I want facts not feelings! Edited February 13 by braves121
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, braves121 said: If there is no law for police to keep data of how many people they encounter how are we supposed to get that data? How is that what the data is saying? So you’re saying cops only deal with mental illness situations when there’s a shooting? You can’t believe that. Well….. sorry YOU can
braves121 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 minute ago, JimmyBT said: So you’re saying cops only deal with mental illness situations when there’s a shooting? You can’t believe that. Well….. sorry YOU can You can not ever have a conversation in good faith. You twist and turn words and make up your own ideas of what someone is saying. Where did I say cops only deal with mental illness situation when there is a shooting? You asked for stats on police encountering mentally ill people and I stated that there are no laws saying cops have to disclose how many mentally ill people they encounter. There is a law saying that the police have to disclose how many people that they kill with a mental illness.
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Just now, braves121 said: You can not ever have a conversation in good faith. You twist and turn words and make up your own ideas of what someone is saying. Where did I say cops only deal with mental illness situation when there is a shooting? You asked for stats on police encountering mentally ill people and I stated that there are no laws saying cops have to disclose how many mentally ill people they encounter. There is a law saying that the police have to disclose how many people that they kill with a mental illness. Which means they USUALLY don’t get shot like YOU said they do. Life is hard for you isn’t it?
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, braves121 said: when police get involved in mental issues the person suffering from the mental illness usually gets killed by the police. When Teachers bring up mental health parents scream indoctrination. When parents are supposed to talk about it you then have instances such as Crumbleys mom actively helping her son with planning and commiting a school shooting. You see police and other agencies defy gun control laws. What do we do from here? This was YOUR original comment. Read the first sentence YOU wrote.
braves121 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Just now, JimmyBT said: Which means they USUALLY don’t get shot like YOU said they do. Life is hard for you isn’t it? How can you prove that when there is no data showing how many mentally ill people are encountered by police? Can I have some cold hard facts not feelings? using your own argument here. You got mad at me for providing actual stories and stats saying mentally ill people are more likely to be shot yet you can not provide data or sources saying that mentally ill people usually don't get shot by police
braves121 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Just now, JimmyBT said: This was YOUR original comment. Read the first sentence YOU wrote. yes and I cited sources and used data proving this claim.
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 (edited) 2 minutes ago, braves121 said: How can you prove that when there is no data showing how many mentally ill people are encountered by police? Can I have some cold hard facts not feelings? using your own argument here. You got mad at me for providing actual stories and stats saying mentally ill people are more likely to be shot yet you can not provide data or sources saying that mentally ill people usually don't get shot by police So AGAIN you’re saying cops only deal with mentally ill people when a mentally I’ll person is shot? Cops never talk some down from suicide, or from shooting someone else?? Ever??? Edited February 13 by JimmyBT
Offthemat Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Do you have to be just a little out of your mind to attack an armed policeman? 1
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, braves121 said: yes and I cited sources and used data proving this claim. You proved nothing about your original statement.
JimmyBT Posted February 13 Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Offthemat said: Do you have to be just a little out of your mind to attack an armed policeman? Or stupid 1
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