New Iowa angst thread

[dragit]

4 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Here's hoping that, just as the Brands' changed their recruiting philosophy, they continue to adapt and strive to elevate the program to the next level. Personally, I'd be interested in some new assistants. 

 

This is right on. Nailed it here. But can/will they do so.

[BaldAt23]

Ryan Morningstar and Telford are not good assistants. They are far from technical wizards. That certainly isn't helping them. I can't understand that at all. 

[BIGTENFANBOY]

22 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I doubt anyone besides Gilman considered Metcalf a traitor.   It’s not like he ditched Iowa for ISU, he was coaching USA freestyle and at a high school before going to ISU. I think it’s just Gilman that’s a douche.  Present tense, as evidenced by his recent tweet about Yianni.  Gilman kinda had to say that to Metcalf after he left himself to try to not look like as much of a hypocrite.

How does Bubba Jenkins feel about Penn State?  All teams are going to have some people that didn’t like it there.  And it’s interesting that the two best examples for Iowa didn’t even “leave” while they were in college but rather several years after.

How many season did Bubba Jenkins wrestle under Cael? He was part of the previous regime and his personality and training style didnt align with the one that Cael Sanderson brought to PSU.

That being said, Metcalf, Ramos, and Gilman were all TommBrands recruits and wrestlers. They have all made statements that at the very least and a touch/tone which CAN be interpreted as negative, right or wrong. When Metcalf says "you know how it is over there" it doesnt sound like praise.

How about you give another example that was from a wrestler and was recruited and wrestled for Cael? Closest one I can think of would possibly be Suriano, but hes always been a mysterious guy. Heck after he won his first NCAA title he was walking through the hallways, and Shakur Rasheed walked by and congratulated him, where Suriano says "PSU is all class."

You can interpret the words of Metcalf/Ramos/Gilman however you want. You can justify and argue til the sunrises that if they have negative feelings theyre unjusitifed or they have no reason to, but the point it that doesnt matter. Some people can and will interpret it as negative.

[BIGTENFANBOY]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

There's been some good discussion here. 

And then there's the bunch of low effort bad faith posters, including @BIGTENFANBOY who, contrary to his handle, isn't actually a fan of wrestling, as evidenced by the fact that he only ever visits to bash on Iowa. Decided to crawl out of your little hole a little early this year, eh?

There's also @Le dukewho makes approximately 60.9% of their posts about Iowa (ex lover spurn you for a hawk?). Have you checked HVI? You'd fit right in.

Several other posters have piled on but otherwise there have been some really good observations and ideas shared. I doubt anyone from the Iowa program reads these boards but I know the staff is aware of the overall online chatter. Here's hoping that, just as the Brands' changed their recruiting philosophy, they continue to adapt and strive to elevate the program to the next level. Personally, I'd be interested in some new assistants. 

 

Nothing bad faith about my statements here. You're just salty Mr Peanutbutter. Just pointing out what i see as a trend coming out of that program. As for Brands evolving, I dont see it. I pretty much see a few small baby step attempts (everyone remmeber the whole "SMILE" movement they tried a few years ago) with a swift return to the norm. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, dragit said:

Good analysis and I agree that he's got time to turn it around.

But it's a pretty developed body of work this year so far which raises two concerns.  

First, he don't look good.  Record wise-wise and eye test-wise.  Saved by a friendly call vs Echemendia. Then in the interview after the match says he's got to step it up. And does the opposite. He got absolutely pulverized in Ann Arbor and then back at Carver was totally controlled by Bartlet in a manner which strongly suggests he's a level below.  

Second, this does seem like a pattern with a lot of top Iowa guys of very flat senior years where they regress and don't look good in doing so.  It wouldn't be fair to say this only happens at this school because it's not uncommon nationally with guys who are just beat up from the grind, but this is a guy you would have expected to put it all together and so far is doing the opposite.

Looked great against Hardy and McNeil, those matches were in the middle there... but not as much of an audience.  I would say he had stepped it up from the Etch loss.  Then misses a weekend, and now these last two matches...

[Mr. PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Nothing bad faith about my statements here. You're just salty Mr Peanutbutter. Just pointing out what i see as a trend coming out of that program. As for Brands evolving, I dont see it. I pretty much see a few small baby step attempts (everyone remmeber the whole "SMILE" movement they tried a few years ago) with a swift return to the norm. 

100% bad faith, phony poster. Folks come on here to discuss wrestling. Sometimes things get heated but at the end of the day we all love wrestling. 

You only post to rehash the same tired argument - "IOWA BAD". We get it. You're obsessed with the program. It's your entire persona. Now leave the actual wrestling talk to the people that actually care about this sport. 

For the people that actually read this board for wrestling: Brands hasnt made a 180 change to the program since his early days of running it. But I can assure you with absolute certainty that his philosophy to training and recruiting has changed in that time. There's still work to do. New assistants with new blood and a more contemporary approach to strength straining are things that come to mind. If there was a coach available that could step in and make an immediate positive impact, I would be on board. 

[AnklePicker]

Another major problem for the Brands is their tough guy act. That act works well when you’re the top dogs but it looks foolish when you act tough and then get your teeth kicked in. A little humility would go a long way.  Cael and company come from a place of humility and gratitude.  That was the game changer for their program.  Making that their cornerstone mindset.  Takes away pressure. 

[BIGTENFANBOY]

41 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

100% bad faith, phony poster. Folks come on here to discuss wrestling. Sometimes things get heated but at the end of the day we all love wrestling. 

You only post to rehash the same tired argument - "IOWA BAD". We get it. You're obsessed with the program. It's your entire persona. Now leave the actual wrestling talk to the people that actually care about this sport. 

For the people that actually read this board for wrestling: Brands hasnt made a 180 change to the program since his early days of running it. But I can assure you with absolute certainty that his philosophy to training and recruiting has changed in that time. There's still work to do. New assistants with new blood and a more contemporary approach to strength straining are things that come to mind. If there was a coach available that could step in and make an immediate positive impact, I would be on board. 

No bad faith at all. I been around for years on the previous Matforums before it shut down. You're clearly way too sensitive and blind to some issues Iowa is facing. Yea im critical of Iowa but its mainly because they often strut around like theyre the be all end all and then fade at NCAAs. Its trend. Their guys are always beaten up and burned out come the big dance and tbh its fans like you who can't see what right in front of your face that annoys me more than anything else.

That being said.. there you have it guys! Brands has changed his philosophy! Not because of any change in actions, not by any real measurable metric, but because the peanut butter man says so.

Edited February 13 by BIGTENFANBOY

[Mr. PeanutButter]

2 minutes ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

No bad faith at all. I been around for years on the previous Matforums before it shut down. You're clearly way too sensitive and blind to some issues Iowa is facing. Yea im critical of Iowa but its mainly because they often strut around like theyre the be all end all and then fade at NCAAs. Its trend. Their guys are always beaten up and burned out come the big dance and tbh its fans like you who can't see what right in front of your face that annoys me more than anything else.

That being said.. there you have it guys! Brands has changed his philosophy! Not because of any change in actions, not by any real measurable metric, but because the peanut butter man says so.

You're not getting my point at all. Im not arguing the program is right where it needs to be. I'm not even pro Brands. And I know you've been around since the old times. I remember your posts. The theme is always the same. You're not actually a fan of the sport. You're just a fan of hating Iowa. Reread your reply that I quoted - opposing fan bases and wrestlers annoy you. There's never any mention in any of your posts about the sport except for how it relates to painting Iowa in a bad light. 

Being a fan at its core is tribal. Animosity is expected. You just take it to a whole nother level - it's your entire personality, like I said. 

So keep raging and railing. It's the only thing you ever contribute. The rest of us have actual wrestling to discuss

[The_KC_Godfather]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

100% bad faith, phony poster. Folks come on here to discuss wrestling. Sometimes things get heated but at the end of the day we all love wrestling. 

You only post to rehash the same tired argument - "IOWA BAD". We get it. You're obsessed with the program. It's your entire persona. Now leave the actual wrestling talk to the people that actually care about this sport. 

For the people that actually read this board for wrestling: Brands hasnt made a 180 change to the program since his early days of running it. But I can assure you with absolute certainty that his philosophy to training and recruiting has changed in that time. There's still work to do. New assistants with new blood and a more contemporary approach to strength straining are things that come to mind. If there was a coach available that could step in and make an immediate positive impact, I would be on board. 

Who do you think are some options that could come in and make an impact? Someone mentioned Yianni which I think would be great from a technical perspective. But as I think through who would be a good fit, I almost think it has to be someone who won’t get sucked into the “Iowa against the world” attitude. They have to change the cult like mindset that Metcalf and others have talked about (someone said Zalesky tried to imitate Gable when speaking to his team?). To me, Iowa style is the hard nosed, in your face, shoot 100 times in 7 minutes. It’s not intentionally running into someone at a bar because they left Iowa and grew out of that mindset. Gilman is probably an exception because he’s a little nutty anyway, but seems like the attitude is pushed into the DNA when you come to Iowa City.

I would also fear that the Brands’ wouldn’t be amenable to changing unless some higher ups pushed it on them. I don’t know if John Smith is truly contemplating retirement and decided it was good to bring in Coleman, or if someone above him said “hey we need to change things” and pushed it on him.

[BIGTENFANBOY]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

You're not getting my point at all. Im not arguing the program is right where it needs to be. I'm not even pro Brands. And I know you've been around since the old times. I remember your posts. The theme is always the same. You're not actually a fan of the sport. You're just a fan of hating Iowa. Reread your reply that I quoted - opposing fan bases and wrestlers annoy you. There's never any mention in any of your posts about the sport except for how it relates to painting Iowa in a bad light. 

Being a fan at its core is tribal. Animosity is expected. You just take it to a whole nother level - it's your entire personality, like I said. 

So keep raging and railing. It's the only thing you ever contribute. The rest of us have actual wrestling to discuss

Lol i take it to a whole new level? Wow thats rich. Considering ive dedicated a huge portion of my life around this sport you clearly dont know ehat youre talking about. Yea i said certain types of fans annoy me. Certain types that cannot see whats right in front of them. Fans like you. What are you some hawkeye insider? Are you part of the hawkeye report "inner circle?" Youre statement of "take it from meeee Brands has changed his waysss" Sure buddy, you dont get more pro brands than that. Yes fanbases are tribal in nature, but all the posturing is lame. Seeing interview after interview where Brands starts yelling stuff like "AND THATS NOT PUTTING THEM ON A PEDESTAL" is sorry. None of my posts are made in "bad faith" theyre my opinion which I always support with events and things that actually happened, not just a mere "take it from me" as if youre some sort of authority on the matter. The fact you dont share my opinion is what makes them "bad faith" to you.

You clearly DONT remember my posts on themat. Sure im not a fan of the Brands method. It terrible seeing guys who COULD great endings finish things with such disappointment year after year after year. Its a pattern. You say things have changed, I say where???

[Mr. PeanutButter]

28 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

Who do you think are some options that could come in and make an impact? Someone mentioned Yianni which I think would be great from a technical perspective. But as I think through who would be a good fit, I almost think it has to be someone who won’t get sucked into the “Iowa against the world” attitude. They have to change the cult like mindset that Metcalf and others have talked about (someone said Zalesky tried to imitate Gable when speaking to his team?). To me, Iowa style is the hard nosed, in your face, shoot 100 times in 7 minutes. It’s not intentionally running into someone at a bar because they left Iowa and grew out of that mindset. Gilman is probably an exception because he’s a little nutty anyway, but seems like the attitude is pushed into the DNA when you come to Iowa City.

I would also fear that the Brands’ wouldn’t be amenable to changing unless some higher ups pushed it on them. I don’t know if John Smith is truly contemplating retirement and decided it was good to bring in Coleman, or if someone above him said “hey we need to change things” and pushed it on him.

I'm right there with you on both counts.

I think a fresh perspective is needed long term. Whoever follows Brands shouldn't be cut from the same cloth. A different philosophy including psychology, gameplanning and training, and is needed. Im no insider by any means, but I've had the pleasure of speaking to several wrestlers from the program and I've been told repeatedly that the room is run differently now than it was 10 years ago. Remember McDonough? He looked like the kind of guy that probably should have sat out some matches. More recently, listen to Lee, Marinelli, Kemerer, and even DeSanto (rare interview) they've all spoken about having to take a lighter training load for extended periods of time. Much has been said about Iowa's grinding to dust training approach. That's not the whole story. From my perspective, the bigger deficiency in Iowa's approach is the negligence of certain techniques and training. When was the last time you saw an Iowa wrestler consistently lock up a cradle? Why would they, look at who's in the room. 

Lots of interesting names have been suggested over the years, namely for their star power (Dake, Burroughs, DT, Cox, you get the point), as options to fill positions ranging from assistants to head coaches (of either HWC or the college program). Those suggestions are titillating, but are they realistic? The Brands are less closed off to outside perspectives than before, but I kinda doubt they would let Jason Nolf lead large portions of the practice.  But maybe I'm wrong? There's gotta be a reason that Telford and Morningstar are still around - they fall in line with Brands. 

I know this pretty much won't ever happen, but I do wonder what someone like Pat Pop could do at Iowa. He consistently takes under the radar guys and squeezes a ton of juice out of them. But then again that hasn't really been Iowa's main challenge over the years. It's the failure of taking top shelf recruits and getting them to win championships, year after year, that has been the biggest disappointment, to me. 

Didn't really answer your question. I often wonder who would be a good get for the program. Would Gwiz be interested after these Olympics? Mach? Lol, Vito in about 8 years? 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

44 minutes ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Lol i take it to a whole new level? Wow thats rich. Considering ive dedicated a huge portion of my life around this sport you clearly dont know ehat youre talking about. Yea i said certain types of fans annoy me. Certain types that cannot see whats right in front of them. Fans like you. What are you some hawkeye insider? Are you part of the hawkeye report "inner circle?" Youre statement of "take it from meeee Brands has changed his waysss" Sure buddy, you dont get more pro brands than that. Yes fanbases are tribal in nature, but all the posturing is lame. Seeing interview after interview where Brands starts yelling stuff like "AND THATS NOT PUTTING THEM ON A PEDESTAL" is sorry. None of my posts are made in "bad faith" theyre my opinion which I always support with events and things that actually happened, not just a mere "take it from me" as if youre some sort of authority on the matter. The fact you dont share my opinion is what makes them "bad faith" to you.

You clearly DONT remember my posts on themat. Sure im not a fan of the Brands method. It terrible seeing guys who COULD great endings finish things with such disappointment year after year after year. Its a pattern. You say things have changed, I say where???

My first response to you began by acknowledging that many good points were made regarding necessary changes to the program in this thread. I then contrasted this with your work. I used the term bad faith because I know you don't actually want to see any changes or improvements to the program, or that you actually care about the sport at all - you just get your rocks off by spewing vitriol against a program and its fan base. It's very easy to check your posting history, which is sporadic and, what I'd call opportunistic. All of your recent posts have been filled hate and have focused on Iowa entirely. So I'll repeat my earlier point: other posters here are trying to have a discussion about wrestling. Whereas your only intent appears to be to spread your own misery onto others. 

True story: at the conclusion of the 2021 NCAA finals I went bar hopping with my good friends. Most of us were wrestling fans and there were a couple PSU fans in the group (I spent a good chunk of my 20s living in Hershey - went to a lot of home duals during those years). It was a long night. In between stops I'd check up on the forums. Without fail, yours was the most recent response. Over the course of many hours during that night you frantically typed multi-paragraph rants about how "acktchually, it's not winning NCAAs that's important, it's about the individual champions!!" over and over it was the same, quazi-coherent sewage that wasn't even geared towards celebrating PSU's accomplishment that night but rather was hyper focused on Iowa. It was your first time posting that season. 

I only recall that incident so vividly because at some point one of my friends saw that I was on the site and asked what the scoop was. I showed him your posts. His response: "that guy's a f***ing weirdo". My friend's a Penn State fan. 

You've made a ritual of making these types of appearances. You're only ever present to dicuss Iowa. 

So to recap: I take no issues with people that criticize Iowa. There's a lot to criticize. At least it comes from actual wrestling fans. You on the other hand have nothing of value to contribute. 

As for your other argument: definitely not an insider by any means. I have some relations to the program and I and my family annualy contribute and a lot of us fundraise. Info rarely trickles our way but nothing I've ever heard wasn't already repeated online.

Though I'm an unabashed fan of the program, if there was a slam dunk replacement for the Brands that could raise up the program, I'd be all for it. See my post following your's for more of my thoughts. 

This will be my last time engaging with a low value poster like yourself. Feel obliged to respond however you like. I know you can't help your obsession so you'll be back to snipe at Iowa soon. 

Edited February 13 by Mr. PeanutButter

[BIGTENFANBOY]

58 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

My first response to you began by acknowledging that many good points were made regarding necessary changes to the program in this thread. I then contrasted this with your work. I used the term bad faith because I know you don't actually want to see any changes or improvements to the program, or that you actually care about the sport at all - you just get your rocks off by spewing vitriol against a program and its fan base. It's very easy to check your posting history, which is sporadic and, what I'd call opportunistic. All of your recent posts have been filled hate and have focused on Iowa entirely. So I'll repeat my earlier point: other posters here are trying to have a discussion about wrestling. Whereas your only intent appears to be to spread your own misery onto others. 

True story: at the conclusion of the 2021 NCAA finals I went bar hopping with my good friends. Most of us were wrestling fans and there were a couple PSU fans in the group (I spent a good chunk of my 20s living in Hershey - went to a lot of home duals during those years). It was a long night. In between stops I'd check up on the forums. Without fail, yours was the most recent response. Over the course of many hours during that night you frantically typed multi-paragraph rants about how "acktchually, it's not winning NCAAs that's important, it's about the individual champions!!" over and over it was the same, quazi-coherent sewage that wasn't even geared towards celebrating PSU's accomplishment that night but rather was hyper focused on Iowa. It was your first time posting that season. 

I only recall that incident so vividly because at some point one of my friends saw that I was on the site and asked what the scoop was. I showed him your posts. His response: "that guy's a f***ing weirdo". My friend's a Penn State fan. 

You've made a ritual of making these types of appearances. You're only ever present to dicuss Iowa. 

So to recap: I take no issues with people that criticize Iowa. There's a lot to criticize. At least it comes from actual wrestling fans. You on the other hand have nothing of value to contribute. 

As for your other argument: definitely not an insider by any means. I have some relations to the program and I and my family annualy contribute and a lot of us fundraise. Info rarely trickles our way but nothing I've ever heard wasn't already repeated online.

Though I'm an unabashed fan of the program, if there was a slam dunk replacement for the Brands that could raise up the program, I'd be all for it. See my post following your's for more of my thoughts. 

This will be my last time engaging with a low value poster like yourself. Feel obliged to respond however you like. I know you can't help your obsession so you'll be back to snipe at Iowa soon. 

Because individual championships do matter more. Every top level wrestler's goal is to be an NCAA champion. Wrestling is an INDIVIDUAL sport with a team component, not the other way around. 

Also i dont HATE Iowa, I get annoyed by certain segments of its fan base. I disagree adamantly with the way the culture in the program is run. 

Finally i dont "get my rocks off" at pissing off Iowa fans. I statement opinion. Back it up with factual occurances and stand my ground and dont back down.

 

Edited February 13 by BIGTENFANBOY

[BIGTENFANBOY]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

My first response to you began by acknowledging that many good points were made regarding necessary changes to the program in this thread. I then contrasted this with your work. I used the term bad faith because I know you don't actually want to see any changes or improvements to the program, or that you actually care about the sport at all - you just get your rocks off by spewing vitriol against a program and its fan base. It's very easy to check your posting history, which is sporadic and, what I'd call opportunistic. All of your recent posts have been filled hate and have focused on Iowa entirely. So I'll repeat my earlier point: other posters here are trying to have a discussion about wrestling. Whereas your only intent appears to be to spread your own misery onto others. 

True story: at the conclusion of the 2021 NCAA finals I went bar hopping with my good friends. Most of us were wrestling fans and there were a couple PSU fans in the group (I spent a good chunk of my 20s living in Hershey - went to a lot of home duals during those years). It was a long night. In between stops I'd check up on the forums. Without fail, yours was the most recent response. Over the course of many hours during that night you frantically typed multi-paragraph rants about how "acktchually, it's not winning NCAAs that's important, it's about the individual champions!!" over and over it was the same, quazi-coherent sewage that wasn't even geared towards celebrating PSU's accomplishment that night but rather was hyper focused on Iowa. It was your first time posting that season. 

I only recall that incident so vividly because at some point one of my friends saw that I was on the site and asked what the scoop was. I showed him your posts. His response: "that guy's a f***ing weirdo". My friend's a Penn State fan. 

You've made a ritual of making these types of appearances. You're only ever present to dicuss Iowa. 

So to recap: I take no issues with people that criticize Iowa. There's a lot to criticize. At least it comes from actual wrestling fans. You on the other hand have nothing of value to contribute. 

As for your other argument: definitely not an insider by any means. I have some relations to the program and I and my family annualy contribute and a lot of us fundraise. Info rarely trickles our way but nothing I've ever heard wasn't already repeated online.

Though I'm an unabashed fan of the program, if there was a slam dunk replacement for the Brands that could raise up the program, I'd be all for it. See my post following your's for more of my thoughts. 

This will be my last time engaging with a low value poster like yourself. Feel obliged to respond however you like. I know you can't help your obsession so you'll be back to snipe at Iowa soon. 

Furthermore, you post saying Iowa should clean out of its assistants as if theyre the problem.. then you say their next head coach should be cut of a different cloth, yet you dont think Brands should be replaced? You say "if there was a slam dunk replacement" you would be all for it. If thats the case then you dont want a replacement. You want to simply continue with what youve got. Changing the assistants will have a minor effect on the program.

You say I have nothing of value to contribute yet you said i made good points. You are just full of contradictions. You brushed off my comments on the vibe given off from Metcalf as if its a nothing burger when its actually isnt. Keep your head in the sand. Youre the one that doesnt want the program to change. Youre the one that wants to keep doing the same thing over and over again while expecting results to change.

[macwoodfleet]

Anyone who can listen to normal human beings in the sport talk, and then listen to the Brands brothers sound like they just got out of the nuthouse whenever someone puts a mic in front of them, and think that's okay, will NEVER understand why Iowa keeps falling behind PSU. The most professional organization in possibly all of American sports vs a bunch of chuckle***duck**s 

[1032004]

10 hours ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

How many season did Bubba Jenkins wrestle under Cael? He was part of the previous regime and his personality and training style didnt align with the one that Cael Sanderson brought to PSU.

That being said, Metcalf, Ramos, and Gilman were all TommBrands recruits and wrestlers. They have all made statements that at the very least and a touch/tone which CAN be interpreted as negative, right or wrong. When Metcalf says "you know how it is over there" it doesnt sound like praise.

How about you give another example that was from a wrestler and was recruited and wrestled for Cael? Closest one I can think of would possibly be Suriano, but hes always been a mysterious guy. Heck after he won his first NCAA title he was walking through the hallways, and Shakur Rasheed walked by and congratulated him, where Suriano says "PSU is all class."

You can interpret the words of Metcalf/Ramos/Gilman however you want. You can justify and argue til the sunrises that if they have negative feelings theyre unjusitifed or they have no reason to, but the point it that doesnt matter. Some people can and will interpret it as negative.

Again, 2 of the 3 guys you list had those negative feelings purely because of the competition within their individual training situations, both of which were several years after college.  I will say that PSU is better at handling those types of situations as guys know there are no guarantees at PSU/NLWC.

But I’m still going to agree to disagree on Metcalf.  Like you said, he was a Brands guy, he didn’t start as an Iowa guy.  He followed Brands from VT to Iowa, giving up a year of eligibility to do so.  Went 1-1-2 in his 3 years competing, then wrestled for HWC for several years and left on good terms.  He trained under Brands for what, 10 years?  I don’t think he has negative feelings about his time there, even if he felt there was an “us against the world” culture.  And heck, when he was hired at ISU, Dresser (an Iowa guy himself of course), hired 3 Iowa guys all at once.  If the culture was so bad why would he do that?  You mentioned St John previously, has he made any comments “that can be interpreted as negative”?

Overall, I’ve heard athletes say only positive things about the Brands brothers as coaches.  I don’t think there is anyone currently available that would do a better job than them.  What do you suggest Iowa does?  Back to the OP of this thread, it seems one suggestion is “new blood” for assistant coaches.  I will say I haven’t heard athletes makes many comments at all about Morningstar/Telford, so sure that could be an option.  But as I mentioned they’ve certainly had their share of successful upperweights.  Even Glazier this year looks like an example of an upperweight having improved in the room.

I’m guessing they’re already planning to, but they need to get Spencer Lee on the staff, although of course that wouldn’t necessarily help any perceived upperweight deficiency.   He’s still an “Iowa guy,” but isn’t the prototypical grinder.  I also wouldn’t totally disagree that the Brands brothers are kinda the same person and having both of them could be a little repetitive, so if Terry wants to head up his own program I’d certainly encourage that.

 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 I will say I haven’t heard athletes makes many comments at all about Morningstar/Telford, so sure that could be an option.  But as I mentioned they’ve certainly had their share of successful upperweights.  Even Glazier this year looks like an example of an upperweight having improved in the room.

In my opinion Zach Glazier is the biggest surprise of the entire season. He goes 9-7 against D1 during his first four years as a Hawkeye, yet he now looks like a Finalist. The best wrestler he beat in those first four years was #51 Wyatt Voelker of Northern Iowa. The upper weights haven't been the problem what with Cassioppi, Kemerer, Warnerov, Brands, and Assad (even hampered by injuries). 

Before y'all think I've gone soft on the Hawks, let me just say that I still plan to do a video of Tom Brands' strange faces during interviews set to the "Theme from the Benny Hill Show." 

 

[The_KC_Godfather]

10 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

I'm right there with you on both counts.

I think a fresh perspective is needed long term. Whoever follows Brands shouldn't be cut from the same cloth. A different philosophy including psychology, gameplanning and training, and is needed. Im no insider by any means, but I've had the pleasure of speaking to several wrestlers from the program and I've been told repeatedly that the room is run differently now than it was 10 years ago. Remember McDonough? He looked like the kind of guy that probably should have sat out some matches. More recently, listen to Lee, Marinelli, Kemerer, and even DeSanto (rare interview) they've all spoken about having to take a lighter training load for extended periods of time. Much has been said about Iowa's grinding to dust training approach. That's not the whole story. From my perspective, the bigger deficiency in Iowa's approach is the negligence of certain techniques and training. When was the last time you saw an Iowa wrestler consistently lock up a cradle? Why would they, look at who's in the room. 

Lots of interesting names have been suggested over the years, namely for their star power (Dake, Burroughs, DT, Cox, you get the point), as options to fill positions ranging from assistants to head coaches (of either HWC or the college program). Those suggestions are titillating, but are they realistic? The Brands are less closed off to outside perspectives than before, but I kinda doubt they would let Jason Nolf lead large portions of the practice.  But maybe I'm wrong? There's gotta be a reason that Telford and Morningstar are still around - they fall in line with Brands. 

I know this pretty much won't ever happen, but I do wonder what someone like Pat Pop could do at Iowa. He consistently takes under the radar guys and squeezes a ton of juice out of them. But then again that hasn't really been Iowa's main challenge over the years. It's the failure of taking top shelf recruits and getting them to win championships, year after year, that has been the biggest disappointment, to me. 

Didn't really answer your question. I often wonder who would be a good get for the program. Would Gwiz be interested after these Olympics? Mach? Lol, Vito in about 8 years? 

Agree with all of your thoughts.  I was of the thought process a while back that there should be a replacement for the Brands', but I do think that Tom brings a lot of value as the top guy (recruiting, relationships, management of scholarships, boosters, etc.).  And he does have a top 5 finish every season in the last 15.  I think the calls for his head are just because they (and the Iowa faithful) expect to win a title every year, but he's still one of the top coaches in the country.

I don't know how much pull or influence Terry has, but he reminds me of a Sammie Henson. As much as I love and respect Sammie, he's a grinder and not a head coach.  A great #2 (look at what he did at Mizzou and other places), but the head job is a LOT more than just teaching technique and hyping guys up.

On possible guys coming in, my thought process was the same as yours...I looked at guys who might be getting close to retiring from the senior level, or may realize they won't make a team behind the likes of Dake or DT.  Guys that I saw/thought of in those categories were Zane Richards, Joey McKenna, Chance Marsteller (seems he's turned things around, but not sure he has the chops to be a #2), Burroughs (I've heard he won't leave Nebraska), Mark Hall (would he leave PSU and/or would Iowa have him?), Ringer, Kollin Moore, Gwiz.  What would be REALLY crazy is if Gable Steveson doesn't pan out in WWE and gets a big NIL deal from Iowa, but I doubt he'd go anywhere but Minny.  To really change culture, I think you'd almost have to have someone mature like Burroughs.

Fun topic, but Iowa (aside from Tom and D. Gable) may be happy with current results, filling seats, etc.  The higher ups may not think there's any reason to change, so it's just a "if you want to be a part of Iowa wrestling, expect to be beat up year around for 4 years".

[pumaunleashed]

17 hours ago, BaldAt23 said:

Ryan Morningstar and Telford are not good assistants. They are far from technical wizards. That certainly isn't helping them. I can't understand that at all. 

Couldn't agree more.  You should never waste an assistant position with a former heavyweight either.  I also think Terry is a distraction during matches.  Give him the RTC job, clean house and hire outside of Iowa.

[dragit]

Although Terry most certainly can be described as a distraction, which is being diplomatic, his chops as a lightweight wrestling coach are stellar. From Jesse Whitmer to Henry Cejudo to McDonoughRamosClark and a healthy Lee, he has fabulous results. He's special on the mat.

You know who would have been perfect for a Terry equivalent -- not wired to be a head coach but a fabulous teacher wrestling coach -- for their upper weights, which despite some of the comments here, strikes me as their clear weakness?  Kevin Jackson.  That hire by Michigan may be the balance of power in the battle for second in the 2020s.  

[The_KC_Godfather]

1 hour ago, pumaunleashed said:

Couldn't agree more.  You should never waste an assistant position with a former heavyweight either.  I also think Terry is a distraction during matches.  Give him the RTC job, clean house and hire outside of Iowa.

I don't know that I agree with this.  If you had the likes of Gwiz, Gable, Snyder...would you not fill an assistant position with them? I know they are exceptions to the rule because of their success, but generally saying a former HWT. shouldn't be an assistance isn't completely accurate.  I think it depends more on their focus.  The perfect scenario is a head coach that manages the big picture (media, recruiting, boosters, AD, etc.) and then has technicians that run the day-to-day. I agree that a HWT. isn't the best case for leading that day-to-day because they are limited on "small guy" technique, but they certainly can be helpful to your upper weights.  Depending on the size of the staff, an Assoc. Head Coach that runs day to day, and depending on their strength (ie. lower weights or middle weights), you have an assistant that balances that with the opposite (lower or middle weights).  A hwt. coach as your last would be ideal.

If I were putting together the perfect staff for Tom as the head coach, it would be Burroughs as the Assoc. Head Coach (middle weights), Sammie Henson or Terry Brands as an assistant (light weights and motivation) and Gwiz. as an assistant (heavy's).  Then have Terry and Burroughs run HWC (Jordan for recruiting, Terry for training).

I personally would love to see Mizzou bring back Sammie as a lightweight coach, with Maple as the Assoc. Head at middleweight and Dom Bradley as the HWT assistant.  But I don't think Sammie is leaving Bull Trained without a big chunk of money thrown at him.