Transferring to Iowa - Mistake?

[1032004]

11 hours ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

Before I get blown up, I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’m a Mizzou fan sitting here watching a great dual between two top teams. Legit question and discussion point….

Looking at Eierman, and now seeing Teske, Woods, Franek, Caliendo…is transferring to Iowa improving these guys? To be fair, bringing this up as Iowa is wrestling the best team in the country, but…thoughts? Not sure who is a part of the HWC, which could be a factor to transfer there, but doesn’t seem like it’s putting these guys over the top on the college level. Thinking of Eierman’s comments that he felt Iowa could push him to the top of the podium, and assume Woods felt the same way. Unfortunately didn’t happen for Jayden and not looking great for Woods now.

Did PSU put Dean “over the top”?  He was already a finalist before going there, and then finished 7th the next year.  The year he won of course he also benefitted from a series of questionable calls and being in a wide open weight (that was also missing the “reigning, undisputed, defending champion 665 lb deadlift baby”).

And if we’re comparing to PSU, Hildebrandt was a 4th place finisher that went 1-2 at PSU.   Cory Keener went 1-2 in 2 NCAA tournaments at CMU, then went 1-2 at PSU.

Looking back, have there been any other transfers since Bubba Jenkins that have won an NCAA title, other than Max Dean and Nick Suriano (x2)?

Winning an NCAA title is hard.

 

[Husker_Du]

10 hours ago, JimmyBT said:

That’s a nice opinion that you can never prove. If Kem was at Penn st he wouldn’t have started over Starocci soooooooooo

why not? 

[JimmyBT]

4 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

why not? 

That you can’t prove it or because Starocci is better?  

Edited February 10 by JimmyBT

[Husker_Du]

9 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

 

And no one thinks Nick Lee did not jump several levels between 2018 and 2021.

you just made their point

[Gus]

4 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

you just made their point

Not really. The OP is asking if guys get better at Iowa. The other guy is arguing PSU against Iowa. If the question is PSU against Iowa then PSU is the obvious answer. They recruit, develop and win at a higher rate than any other team and it’s not really comparable. Iowa vs the rest of the field, Iowa looks pretty good. They have had the most non-PSU success of any team since Tom took the reins. They also have had many transfer make big jumps coming to Iowa. Namely Lugo and DeSanto. 

[Husker_Du]

16 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

That you can’t prove it or because Starocci is better?  

why wouldn't Kemerer have started ahead of Starocci?

he was regarded by most as a better prospect (I had them both #9 in their graduating class)

and Kemerer won the first time they wrestled. 

assuming Carter as superior is revisionist and precisely evidence to the post that PSU develops guys better. 

[Husker_Du]

3 minutes ago, Gus said:

Not really. The OP is asking if guys get better at Iowa. The other guy is arguing PSU against Iowa. If the question is PSU against Iowa then PSU is the obvious answer. 

touche

3 minutes ago, Gus said:

Namely Lugo and DeSanto. 

Lugo did not jump considerably. he ended up being #1 in a very weak weight, but two years prior had beaten Sorenson who was #2 the entire time. 

[Gus]

1 minute ago, Husker_Du said:

touche

Lugo did not jump considerably. he ended up being #1 in a very weak weight, but two years prior had beaten Sorenson who was #2 the entire time. 

Lugo went from being a guy ranked in the teens to a guy that was beating Sasso and favored to win a title. One win over Sorensen showed the promise that he had that was not being maximized in his training environment at the time. He became super consistent and a hammer at Iowa. His senior level results continue to show that he is a really tough competitor. 

[VakAttack]

8 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

touche

Lugo did not jump considerably. he ended up being #1 in a very weak weight, but two years prior had beaten Sorenson who was #2 the entire time. 

What?  Lugo having one upset win doesn't change who he was that year.  He had 9 losses, mostly to non-luminaries. He went from that to #1 ranking m, 1 loss, and beating guys like Sasso and Austin O'Connor.  To say he didn't greatly improve at Iowa is a bananas take. 

[Husker_Du]

by no metric did Lugo 'jump levels'

his placings were

2016 Edinboro - Blood Round

2017 Edinboro - 1-2

2018 Iowa - RS

2019 Iowa - 8th - losses to Jarrett Degen and Mitch Finesilver for christ's sake

2020 Iowa - as a 5th year senior he split matches with FR Sammy Sasso. congrats.

there was no massive level jumping and his SR level 'success' isn't great but any stretch. 

in his last appearance he got beat by a TR Freshman in college (Kaleb Larkin) while scoring a whopping 2 points

[Husker_Du]

2016 - Blood Round

a full 2 seasons at iowa - 8th

3rd and final year at iowa - lowest bonus rate of entire career.

massive jump 

[1032004]

27 minutes ago, Gus said:

Not really. The OP is asking if guys get better at Iowa. The other guy is arguing PSU against Iowa. If the question is PSU against Iowa then PSU is the obvious answer. They recruit, develop and win at a higher rate than any other team and it’s not really comparable.

If we’re talking specific to transfer improvement though, all PSU has in its favor is Dean winning a title in a wide open weight and then finishing 7th the next year.    How Nagao and Truax do at NCAA’s this year will give us some more data of course.
 

[VakAttack]

Just now, Husker_Du said:

2016 - Blood Round

a full 2 seasons at iowa - 8th

massive jump 

Now do the next year.  You're just arbitrarily dismissing facts you don't like. The next year, he went 2-1 against the guys who would be the finalists the following year. 

[Husker_Du]

i'm not dismissing them.

2-1, great.

he also beat an NCAA finalist while at Edinboro two years before that. 

[JimmyBT]

10 hours ago, JimmyBT said:

You’re trying to turn your lame argument into Penn st has a better coaching staff than Iowa.  NOBODY is saying they don’t. .  Go back to the original post 

I’m pretty sure I said this at least once.  

[JimmyBT]

39 minutes ago, Gus said:

Not really. The OP is asking if guys get better at Iowa. The other guy is arguing PSU against Iowa. If the question is PSU against Iowa then PSU is the obvious answer. They recruit, develop and win at a higher rate than any other team and it’s not really comparable. Iowa vs the rest of the field, Iowa looks pretty good. They have had the most non-PSU success of any team since Tom took the reins. They also have had many transfer make big jumps coming to Iowa. Namely Lugo and DeSanto. 

This  

[JimmyBT]

36 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

why wouldn't Kemerer have started ahead of Starocci?

he was regarded by most as a better prospect (I had them both #9 in their graduating class)

and Kemerer won the first time they wrestled. 

assuming Carter as superior is revisionist and precisely evidence to the post that PSU develops guys better. 

I’m pretty sure I said PSU is on its own level more than once.  

[Husker_Du]

to answer the original question, no, it's not a mistake. Iowa has a great staff and it's a great room.

i just don't think Lugo, who peaked at 8th, was the juggernaut riser that people use as the shining example of 'level jumping'

and don't give me 'he had 2020 canceled' which if manifested, would almost certainly help my cause in the argument. 

[JimmyBT]

23 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

What?  Lugo having one upset win doesn't change who he was that year.  He had 9 losses, mostly to non-luminaries. He went from that to #1 ranking m, 1 loss, and beating guys like Sasso and Austin O'Connor.  To say he didn't greatly improve at Iowa is a bananas take. 

Finally.  Something you and I agree on

[JimmyBT]

2 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

to answer the original question, no, it's not a mistake. Iowa has a great staff and it's a great room.

i just don't think Lugo, who peaked at 8th, was the juggernaut riser that people use as the shining example of 'level jumping'

If he’s not at Iowa does he become an AA? 

[VakAttack]

18 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

i'm not dismissing them.

2-1, great.

he also beat an NCAA finalist while at Edinboro two years before that. 

He had 9 losses that year.  He lost to guys like Matthew Zovistoski, Sam Speno, and Laike Gardiner.

[Husker_Du]

color me shocked that a 

17 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

If he’s not at Iowa does he become an AA? 

as a TR FR at Edinboro he was 1 match away. literally lost in blood round.

so, yes. 

[Husker_Du]

15 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He had 9 losses that year.  He lost to guys like Matthew Zovistoski, Sam Speno, and Laike Gardiner.

you mean to tell me a JR had incremental improvements two years later when

at Iowa, he had 10 losses, won exactly 1 more bout at NCAA's

and lost to 1x AA mitch finesilver, 1x AA Jarrett Degen, and 0x AA Russell Roehlfing. 

yeah. massive level jumping. 

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, Husker_Du said:

and two years later, at Iowa, he had 10 losses, won exactly 1 more bout at NCAA's

and lost to 1x AA mitch finesilver, 1x AA Jarrett Degen, and 0x AA Russell Roehlfing. 

And then what happened.  You keep ignoring that.

[Husker_Du]

i didn't ignore anything. he split with Sasso. he beat AOC.

those two, at that point in time, were no better than the Brandon Sorenson he beat as a true SOPH at Edinboro.

true or false: Lugo beat as good an opponent while at Edinboro than he ever did at Iowa?