The Government can’t give someone something without first taking it from someone else

[jross]

27 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I do not disagree about best and brightest. 

You're taking a bias tone when you insist on talking about it in terms of legal vs illegal. Why won't you just talk about an immigrant? 

I have a feeling I know why but I want to see your answer first. Please prove me wrong? ( I will not answer first btw so don't ask)

I will not trust your judgement as to what 'we' 'want' with regards to immigrants. Considering your hesitation to see them as anything but legal or illegal.  

Immigrants are people.  People deserve respect, even criminals.

While acknowledging the vast majority have no malicious intent, non-citizen criminals, which by default includes all who cross into the country illegally, should go home.

As our current poor citizens say... go home!

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

Agreed.

Theres another one that just lingers behind the scenes with his emojis.  He just gives  hearts to the libtards and laughs at all others.  

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, jross said:

Immigrants are people.  People deserve respect, even criminals.

While acknowledging the vast majority have no malicious intent, non-citizen criminals, which by default includes all who cross into the country illegally, should go home.

As our current poor citizens say... go home!

Even the sanctuary cities are crying “no mas” 

[Paul158]

2 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Theres another one that just lingers behind the scenes with his emojis.  He just gives  hearts to the libtards and laughs at all others.  

I'm aware of such an emojis poster . I was wondering if we could get him to go on the Dr. Phil show. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Immigration policy, much like the tax code, is extremely complex, complicated, and has developed as much more of a tool for political prowess than the actual cause and effect for which it was (at least supposed to be) intended.  Another way of saying that may be that there have been a substantial number of people who made substantial contributions to making this the greatest nation in the world, who arrived here in a manner that today would be described as illegal. So I have a hard time making that the one and only factor on whether or not someone deserves an opportunity to be here.  An illegal immigrant is an illegal immigrant because someone wrote something down on a piece of paper. Not because coming to these shores is some kind of invasion on someone else’s personal freedoms.  

I believe in follow the law and follow the rules.  But I also believe when humanity is involved, ‘blanket policy’ is pretty tough.  

Edited January 11 by WrestlingRasta

[jross]

19 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

I'm aware of such an emojis poster . I was wondering if we could get him to go on the Dr. Phil show. 

Mr. Emoji is in the special member group of size 1.  That group must not have post privileges.

https://intermatwrestle.com/search/?&type=core_members&joinedDate=any&group[15]=1

[JimmyBT]

8 minutes ago, jross said:

Mr. Emoji is in the special member group of size 1.  That group must not have post privileges.

https://intermatwrestle.com/search/?&type=core_members&joinedDate=any&group[15]=1

When I end up in that group I’m pretty sure you won’t have to worry about me sticking around just for the emojis

[mspart]

16 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

An illegal immigrant is an illegal immigrant because someone wrote something down on a piece of paper. Not because coming to these shores is some kind of invasion on someone else’s personal freedoms.  

I believe in follow the law and follow the rules.  But I also believe when humanity is involved, ‘blanket policy’ is pretty tough.  

Yes, anything that is illegal is because it is written somewhere on a piece of paper or similar.   But as with the NY kids being kicked out of their school, their (the illegals) coming to these shores does affect someone else's personal freedoms.   That example is a macro example of this.   But by coming, they must be supported.   If they get a job, they are taking a job from some other citizen or legal immigrant which affects them.   Yes, they do affect the populace in both employment and government money (our tax money).   And that tax money was not allocated to take care of them.   It is being diverted from what it was intended to do to take care of them.   So whoever it was intended for is not getting the value that was appropriated.  It is not as complicated as you want to make it sound. 

mspart

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, JimmyBT said:

https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers-2023

Could sure help a lot of “Non Rich” people with $151 Billion 

[jross]

Here's the thing that Dave Ramsey gets right.

1. Get an emergency fund.
2. Get out of debt.
3. Put aside money for children's college.
4. Pay off the house.
5. Build wealth.
6. Then use the accumulated wealth to give back.

The US is on step 1.

Right now, it has no business taking in illegal immigrants.

Have you ever heard of putting on your own oxygen mask first before assisting others?

[JimmyBT]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

Here's the thing that Dave Ramsey gets right.

1. Get an emergency fund.
2. Get out of debt.
3. Put aside money for children's college.
4. Pay off the house.
5. Build wealth.
6. Then use the accumulated wealth to give back.

The US is on step 1.

Right now, it has no business taking in illegal immigrants.

Have you ever heard of putting on your own oxygen mask first before assisting others?

7. Don’t penalize people for getting to step 6. Learn from them. 

[WrestlingRasta]

1 minute ago, mspart said:

Yes, anything that is illegal is because it is written somewhere on a piece of paper or similar.   But as with the NY kids being kicked out of their school, their (the illegals) coming to these shores does affect someone else's personal freedoms.   That example is a macro example of this.   But by coming, they must be supported.   If they get a job, they are taking a job from some other citizen or legal immigrant which affects them.   Yes, they do affect the populace in both employment and government money (our tax money).   And that tax money was not allocated to take care of them.   It is being diverted from what it was intended to do to take care of them.   So whoever it was intended for is not getting the value that was appropriated.  It is not as complicated as you want to make it sound. 

mspart

I would argue that what you are talking about is an effect from bad policy, not an effect from a person coming to this country wanting to make a better life for themselves, as pretty much every one of our founding fathers, or at least their parents, did.  
 

You saying by an immigrant coming they must be supported and if they work for a living they are taking a job from someone is just completely asinine and completely against the ideals this country was founded upon, at its cery core. If policy says 20% of a workforce has to be Hispanic, then that is an effect of bad policy. 
 

Yes anything illegal is written on paper, but if you can’t see the illegality difference between murder, and wanting to make a living in the United States, which is obviously the very clear point I was making, then I can’t help you there. But since we completely disagree that someone should not be allowed to come here and gain employment because I’m entitled because I was by chance born here, if you think that means I am more entitled to natural born freedoms than others not by chance born here, as a fundamental principle which is the theme of your post……well then I think you need to go through and read the constitution.  
 

To say the immigration policies are not complicated just shows your complete ignorance of them. 

[WrestlingRasta]

12 minutes ago, jross said:

Here's the thing that Dave Ramsey gets right.

1. Get an emergency fund.
2. Get out of debt.
3. Put aside money for children's college.
4. Pay off the house.
5. Build wealth.
6. Then use the accumulated wealth to give back.

The US is on step 1.

Right now, it has no business taking in illegal immigrants.

Have you ever heard of putting on your own oxygen mask first before assisting others?

That’s according to someone’s version of what is ‘right’   Building wealth has never been on some people’s (mine included) priority list. So we’re wrong?

[JimmyBT]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Immigration policy, much like the tax code, is extremely complex, complicated, and has developed as much more of a tool for political prowess than the actual cause and effect for which it was (at least supposed to be) intended.  Another way of saying that may be that there have been a substantial number of people who made substantial contributions to making this the greatest nation in the world, who arrived here in a manner that today would be described as illegal. So I have a hard time making that the one and only factor on whether or not someone deserves an opportunity to be here.  An illegal immigrant is an illegal immigrant because someone wrote something down on a piece of paper. Not because coming to these shores is some kind of invasion on someone else’s personal freedoms.  

I believe in follow the law and follow the rules.  But I also believe when humanity is involved, ‘blanket policy’ is pretty tough.  

You believe in follow the law and follow the rules unless it doesn’t fit your narrative. Got it. 

[JimmyBT]

31 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

That’s according to someone’s version of what is ‘right’   Building wealth has never been on some people’s (mine included) priority list. So we’re wrong?

If you’re expecting someone else to support you with their wealth yes. 

[Offthemat]

30 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

That’s according to someone’s version of what is ‘right’   Building wealth has never been on some people’s (mine included) priority list. So we’re wrong?

You do steps 1-4 as responsibility for yourself and to your family.  Steps 5 and 6 are taken at your leisure. 

[WrestlingRasta]

3 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

You do steps 1-4 as responsibility for yourself and to your family.  Steps 5 and 6 are taken at your leisure. 

I can get with that. 

[Paul158]

58 minutes ago, jross said:

Here's the thing that Dave Ramsey gets right.

1. Get an emergency fund.
2. Get out of debt.
3. Put aside money for children's college.
4. Pay off the house.
5. Build wealth.
6. Then use the accumulated wealth to give back.

The US is on step 1.

Right now, it has no business taking in illegal immigrants.

Have you ever heard of putting on your own oxygen mask first before assisting others?

I completed step 1 ,13 years ago .Step 2. 12 years ago. Step 3 , Kid's (5) were already through school college and all debt paid. Step 4 , 5years ago. step 5 . I call it prepare to retire. I could have done better had I started earlier. But ok. My step 6 . was to retire.  I did 2 years ago. My step 7 giving back . I've been doing that for the last 25 years. I actually had started my goals about 4 years before I had heard about Dave Ramsey. 

Edited January 11 by Paul158
missed a word.

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

I completed step 1 ,13 years ago .Step 2. 12 years ago. Step 3 , Kid's (5) were already through school college and all debt paid. Step 4 , 5years ago. step 5 . could have done better had I started earlier. But ok. My step 6 . was to retire  2 years ago. My step 7 giving back . I've been doing that for the las 25 years. I actually had started my goals about 4 years before I had heard about Dave Ramsey. 

Congrats!!!!!  Enjoy you’ve earned it !!! 

[Offthemat]

5 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I can get with that. 

Good, let’s work on your immigration stance.  Being as half of our college STEM graduates don’t find employment in their respective fields, how many immigrants do we need to fill STEM jobs?  These would be legal, H-1B immigrants.  

[Paul158]

7 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Congrats!!!!!  Enjoy you’ve earned it !!! 

Thanks. Now I have time to spend with my 14 grandchildren and do other things.

[Paul158]

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Good, let’s work on your immigration stance.  Being as half of our college STEM graduates don’t find employment in their respective fields, how many immigrants do we need to fill STEM jobs?  These would be legal, H-1B immigrants.  

That would be ZERO. Those are good paying jobs that Americans can fill without any problem.

[Offthemat]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

That would be ZERO. Those are good paying jobs that Americans can fill without any problem.

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner! 

[Offthemat]

7 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Thanks. Now I have time to spend with my 14 grandchildren and do other things.

You still have to mow the lawn?

[Paul158]

10 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner! 

Thank you. Thank you. I would just like thank all my fellow posters who have enlightened me to the practical truth.

Edited January 11 by Paul158
missed a word