Phone calls in Michigan

[WrestlingRasta]

10 minutes ago, mspart said:

From both sides of this. 

One side says there is something to look at here and the other says, no there isn't. 

mspart

Not exactly, let me take a stab. 
 

One ‘side’ of this says there is something to look at here. 
 

The other side says it has been looked at, over, and over, and over and over and over and over again.

(As evidenced, in small part, by the post linked giving the analysis after looking at it very thoroughly, paid by the person who wanted a different result )

But again, if it’s not the answer I wanted…

 

 

 

 

 

[jross]

45 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I'm sorry but if you can't keep the conversation straight and don't have the common courtesy to quote the posts you are responding to this request will go unfulfilled. 

You can respond to my direct response(s) and answer my follow up questions or not. Or take your ball and go home. 

I would be happy to answer your questions after you answer those posed to you.  Asking a question to a question is not an answer...

---------------------------------------------------------------- 

Have you read this?

Who are these people?  What reason are these people lying?

Let’s pick up the conversation from there.

---------------------------------------------------------------- 

[jross]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

From both sides of this. 

One side says there is something to look at here and the other says, no there isn't. 

mspart

In the Georgia case, the judge Amero dismissed the case stating the petitioners 'failed to allege a particularized injury.'  No single voter is specifically disadvantaged if a vote is counted improperly, even if the error might have a mathematical impact on the final tally and thus on the proportional effect of every vote.

This directly supports what mspart is saying!

Let the case go to court.  If the witness are lying about their observations, then punish them for perjury.  If they are not lying, then allow the ballots to be audited.  If the ballots are missing or destroyed... well then... I guess "if there was fraud we'd have found it by now" /S.

Edited January 2 by jross

[mspart]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Not exactly, let me take a stab. 

One ‘side’ of this says there is something to look at here. 

The other side says it has been looked at, over, and over, and over and over and over and over again.

(As evidenced, in small part, by the post linked giving the analysis after looking at it very thoroughly, paid by the person who wanted a different result )

But again, if it’s not the answer I wanted…

Semantics.   One side says there is something to look at here and the other says, no there isn't, because it has been looked over again and again and again.   Hence there is no reason to look at it.   You are trying to suggest that there is a difference here.   There is not.   Just because it has been looked at, does not mean that side wants it looked at again.  They don't.  Which if you take what they are saying at face value, they should welcome the opportunity to discredit the allegations.   So why don't they want it looked into again?   Thank you for making my point for me. 

mspart

[ThreePointTakedown]

29 minutes ago, jross said:

I would be happy to answer your questions after you answer those posed to you.  Asking a question to a question is not an answer...

---------------------------------------------------------------- 

Have you read this?

Who are these people?  What reason are these people lying?

Let’s pick up the conversation from there.

---------------------------------------------------------------- 

No. Have no need to. Doesn't offer any new information that hasn't been litigated, extensively, and dismissed.

You tell me. Should I assume they are or do you? Just so we're clear, these questions seek to clarify nothing of significance other then to stroke your ego. If you want to make a point by these questions it would be easier and less toolish to just make it. I have no idea why someone would do anything and not knowing anything about them it serves no purpose to guess. 

I'll make my point and you can answer the question after. 

"Heard" as I take it you mean 'taken to trial'. If that is the case, no. This is another way people want to move the goal posts and feign being a victim. "Its not fair that they weren't able to get a hearing in front of a judge." That's not how the justice system works. A judge or set of judges decides if you have enough to move forward prior to a jury or bench trial. In many cases, if not all, they failed to reach the lowest bar to bring a suit. Plenty of affidavits did not hold up. Many 'witnesses' turned out to be full of it. Many of the judges were appointed by 45. So that begs the question, where does your conspiracy theory end? When are you going to get to the end of this yellow brick road? Are the judges in on it. Which judges appointed by which president should rule for which cases? What do you get out of perpetuating something so obviously false? 

This is the satisfying and sad part of conspiracy theories and cults. We think we have info that other sheeple don't. So we can pretend to be superior. Makes us feel good. Get that dopamine hit. But when it turns out we were had, that crash is pretty rough. So we concoct webs to make it so we are never wrong so we never crash. Its at this point, of desperation, where people are most vulnerable to be taken advantage of. The first taste is always free. 

Don't chase that dragon! 

[ThreePointTakedown]

23 minutes ago, jross said:

In the Georgia case, the judge Amero dismissed the case stating the petitioners 'failed to allege a particularized injury.'  No single voter is specifically disadvantaged if a vote is counted improperly, even if the error might have a mathematical impact on the final tally and thus on the proportional effect of every vote.

This directly supports what mspart is saying!

Let the case go to court.  If the witness are lying about their observations, then punish them for perjury.  If they are not lying, then allow the ballots to be audited.  If the ballots are missing or destroyed... well then... I guess "if there was fraud we'd have found it by now" /S.

Do you even know what you're saying?  The judge should waste their and the state's time and resources to allow attorneys to smear an election process on the record and maybe, just maybe, they could prosecute the witnesses because they made up the whole thing? Never mind the attorneys that bring these cases knowing the dubious nature of the affidavits that they file as evidence.  Do you actually read what you type and comprehend it before submitting? 

If you care, at all, that we are a country of laws and justice then this type of stuff should infuriate you. That they would use such slimy tactics and logic to circumvent an election they lost and to convince you to have their back and give them money for it. Do you know how damaging it is to second guess an election the way 'Schmuck a l'orange' has? I understand being concerned for legit reasons, but as we've covered, NONE OF THESE ARE LEGIT!

A much simpler explanation is that a rich man that has never been held to account for anything(ie, getting the grades to get into an ivy league school, screwing his family out of daddy's inheritance, Miss America Creeper, the dozens of contractors he stole from over the years, access hollywood tape, inciting violence at rallys) finds himself brought up on 91 charges and, like anyone, desperately wants to stay out of prison. He's been a grifter and a bigot his whole life. He's not long for this world and doesn't want to die in jail. Why not make a few, less than ethical, lawyers rich while spending the kids' inheritance to stay out of jail?

PS. if you don't want to click on the link, it does to Rollingstone a timeline of 45's creepy moments when he owned Miss America pageant. Ya, he's a creep too.   

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

24 minutes ago, mspart said:

Semantics.   One side says there is something to look at here and the other says, no there isn't, because it has been looked over again and again and again.   Hence there is no reason to look at it.   You are trying to suggest that there is a difference here.   There is not.   Just because it has been looked at, does not mean that side wants it looked at again.  They don't.  Which if you take what they are saying at face value, they should welcome the opportunity to discredit the allegations.   So why don't they want it looked into again?   Thank you for making my point for me. 

mspart

This is moving the goal posts again. You want one side to give ground and never offer any. Each case was dismissed. 'But if we just allow 10 more days to count the votes?' or 'Look again, at this case that a judge(that we should trust with these issues, which, coincidentally, you don't anymore when its your issue) has already determine is so lacking in credibility they won't allow it in their courtroom.'  

Keep insisting. Not gonna happen. Feign victimhood in us not giving you what you want. Sorry not sorry. 

[jross]

28 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

No.

[jross]

J. Christian Adams, Public Interest Legal Foundation

Mail ballots are the worst way to run the election.

1. Disenfranchises voters.  Mail goes to the wrong address 5% of the time.  Also, ballots are thrown out.
2. Destroys transparency.
3. Ballots can be and are voted by other people.  See United States v. Ike Brown, 494 F. Supp. 2d 440.
   1. Judge to Suzy Wood... why on earth would you allow this? "Your honor, the person coming to my house always knows the best person to vote for."
4. Ballots are going to bad addresses where people are inappropriately registered to vote (vacant lots, mines, pot shops, casinos, liquor stores, etc)
5. Creates storage problems and paranoia
6. You cannot cure them.  Any mistake on the ballot or envelope cannot be fixed, and these ballots get rejected.  
7. Voters do not know when their vote is not counted.
8. Most important!  Election officials are not in charge of the process.  There is no central authority watching the system take place.  System of chaos.

 

 

Edited January 2 by jross

[mspart]

33 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

This is moving the goal posts again. You want one side to give ground and never offer any. Each case was dismissed. 'But if we just allow 10 more days to count the votes?' or 'Look again, at this case that a judge(that we should trust with these issues, which, coincidentally, you don't anymore when its your issue) has already determine is so lacking in credibility they won't allow it in their courtroom.'  

Keep insisting. Not gonna happen. Feign victimhood in us not giving you what you want. Sorry not sorry. 

You are making the case that I was correct by saying, "One side says there is something to look at here and the other says, no there isn't."    Yet you are arguing you are not.   Very interesting. 

mspart

[Plasmodium]

Has this case been dismissed again?

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

Semantics.   One side says there is something to look at here and the other says, no there isn't, because it has been looked over again and again and again.   Hence there is no reason to look at it.   You are trying to suggest that there is a difference here.   There is not.   Just because it has been looked at, does not mean that side wants it looked at again.  They don't.  Which if you take what they are saying at face value, they should welcome the opportunity to discredit the allegations.   So why don't they want it looked into again?   Thank you for making my point for me. 

mspart

And thank you for making me chuckle. 
Happy New Year!

[mspart]

Yeah its a chuckle alright, depending on how you look at it.

Happy New Year to you too WR.   Best wishes to you and your family.    

mspart

[jross]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:59 PM, jross said:

Have you read this?

Who are these people?  What reason are these people lying?

Let’s pick up the conversation from there.

Yes, I have read it.

I believe these people are telling the truth in what they observed, stated, and signed under penalty of perjury. 

 

------------------

Note: Fulton County recently terminated poll workers Bridget Thorne and Suzi Voyles

Garland Favorito, IT Pro, Cofounder of VoterGA | linkedin | facebook | X 

• The retired information technology professional is co-founder of VoterGA, a nonpartisan election integrity nonprofit with thousands of social media followers. Politically, he is independent.  (more info)
• Observed Biden votes increased by 20K, Trump decreased by 1K
• Suspicion of harvested ballots, vote swapping malware in the tabulator, ballot definition mismatch.

 

Robin Hall, Fulton County recount observer 
Judy Abe, Fulton County audit monitor | linkedin | facebook 

• Observed boxes of absentee or mail-in boxes being counted.  
• Robin says many boxes were 100% for Biden, Judy says many boxes were 98% for Biden
• Ballots appeared pre-printed and perfectly filled out. 
• Wrote down suspicious batch headers and box numbers.

 

Susan Voyles, Poll Manager at Precinct SS02 A & B (Sandy Springs) | linkedin | facebook | X

• Many ballots had already been handled, with written marks, and worn edges; they showed obvious use.  Marked derived location.
• One batch was pristine.  Different textured paper.  No markings to indicate where they came from.
• In 20 years of experience, this was a notable batch.  98% were marked for Biden and 2% for Trump.
• After leaving the first hand count shift on Saturdays, was informed counting would continue through Monday.
• However Sunday morning several auditors were told their help was not needed and process was not followed appropriately.
• As a poll manager of over 20 years, confident at least one box reviewed was fraudulent.

Barbara Harman, election official auditor

• The majority of ballots count reviewed were in pristine unhandled condition and appeared identically stamped for Biden

Dr. Sonia Rolle | linkedin | facebook | X
Dr. Gordon Rolle, auditors | facebook

• Auditors were not following the two-person confirmation process and procedures
• Fulton County employees were given 3000 ballots at a time, whereas auditors would be given 100 ballots at a time
• I was hired for 5 days and only worked 1.5 days
• Republican monitors were not allowed in the area where ballots were uploaded but Democrats were

Bridgette Thorne, voting technician for Dominion Voting Systems | linkedin | facebook | X

• test ballots were printed on the same paper as actual ballots, making them indistinguishable from actual ballots
• stacks of test ballots were left unsecured all over the facility
• test ballots were printed out a second time due to lost batches of ballots

David Cross, recount witness

• The transport bags were not secured with security zip tabs required to maintain proof of chain of custody.
• Provided photos and bag ids
• News... https://www.ntd.com/security-concerns-during-georgia-recount_532930.html

Edited January 2 by jross

[mspart]

Wow, those are interesting allegations.   Is it possible for any of them to be proven true at this time?

Quite a few people giving their observations of what went on. 

Raffensperger was not happy with those folks being fired.

https://sos.ga.gov/news/secretary-raffensperger-condemns-political-firing-calls-rehiring-fulton-county-whistle-blowers

mspart

[jross]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Yes, I have read it.

I believe these people are telling the truth in what they observed, stated, and signed under penalty of perjury. 

Sane person says "These people believe they were telling the truth in what they observed."

Why was the case dismissed?

• Because the judge determined no individual voter was harmed even if the observations were true.

What became of this case?

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Has this case been dismissed again?

On December 20, 2022, Petitioners in the counterfeit ballot case won a confirmation of standing from the Georgia Supreme Court which forced the Court of Appeals to remand their case back to Superior Court where Petitioners could open discovery and proceed with the inspection of 2020 Fulton County mail-in ballots.  

Judge Amero recused himself and gave the case to Judge McBurney.

A motion to recuse McBurney for bias was submitted on May 16th, 2023.  (90 days to address was missed)

On October 11th, Judge McBurney ordered the recusal motions be heard by another superior court judge.

Two defense attorneys for Georgia recused themself from the case in November.

Judge Leftridge denies the recusal motion against Judge McBurney on December 7th.

Waiting on judge McBurney at this point.

If there is nothing to hide, all involved should be willing to show the ballots

[mspart]

Yes, very interesting.   Everyone has to recuse?   Nothing shady going on here.

mspart

[ThreePointTakedown]

15 hours ago, jross said:

J. Christian Adams, Public Interest Legal Foundation

Mail ballots are the worst way to run the election.

1. Disenfranchises voters.  Mail goes to the wrong address 5% of the time.  Also, ballots are thrown out.
2. Destroys transparency.
3. Ballots can be and are voted by other people.  See United States v. Ike Brown, 494 F. Supp. 2d 440.
   1. Judge to Suzy Wood... why on earth would you allow this? "Your honor, the person coming to my house always knows the best person to vote for."
4. Ballots are going to bad addresses where people are inappropriately registered to vote (vacant lots, mines, pot shops, casinos, liquor stores, etc)
5. Creates storage problems and paranoia
6. You cannot cure them.  Any mistake on the ballot or envelope cannot be fixed, and these ballots get rejected.  
7. Voters do not know when their vote is not counted.
8. Most important!  Election officials are not in charge of the process.  There is no central authority watching the system take place.  System of chaos.

 

 

Your argument boils down to, 'its not perfect, so we can't even try.' 

Sounds about right. That case was from 2005. There have been improvements to the mail in process.

[ThreePointTakedown]

14 hours ago, jross said:

Yes, I have read it.

I believe these people are telling the truth in what they observed, stated, and signed under penalty of perjury. 

 

------------------

Note: Fulton County recently terminated poll workers Bridget Thorne and Suzi Voyles

Garland Favorito, IT Pro, Cofounder of VoterGA | linkedin | facebook | X 

• The retired information technology professional is co-founder of VoterGA, a nonpartisan election integrity nonprofit with thousands of social media followers. Politically, he is independent.  (more info)
• Observed Biden votes increased by 20K, Trump decreased by 1K
• Suspicion of harvested ballots, vote swapping malware in the tabulator, ballot definition mismatch.

 

Robin Hall, Fulton County recount observer 
Judy Abe, Fulton County audit monitor | linkedin | facebook 

• Observed boxes of absentee or mail-in boxes being counted.  
• Robin says many boxes were 100% for Biden, Judy says many boxes were 98% for Biden
• Ballots appeared pre-printed and perfectly filled out. 
• Wrote down suspicious batch headers and box numbers.

 

Susan Voyles, Poll Manager at Precinct SS02 A & B (Sandy Springs) | linkedin | facebook | X

• Many ballots had already been handled, with written marks, and worn edges; they showed obvious use.  Marked derived location.
• One batch was pristine.  Different textured paper.  No markings to indicate where they came from.
• In 20 years of experience, this was a notable batch.  98% were marked for Biden and 2% for Trump.
• After leaving the first hand count shift on Saturdays, was informed counting would continue through Monday.
• However Sunday morning several auditors were told their help was not needed and process was not followed appropriately.
• As a poll manager of over 20 years, confident at least one box reviewed was fraudulent.

Barbara Harman, election official auditor

• The majority of ballots count reviewed were in pristine unhandled condition and appeared identically stamped for Biden

Dr. Sonia Rolle | linkedin | facebook | X
Dr. Gordon Rolle, auditors | facebook

• Auditors were not following the two-person confirmation process and procedures
• Fulton County employees were given 3000 ballots at a time, whereas auditors would be given 100 ballots at a time
• I was hired for 5 days and only worked 1.5 days
• Republican monitors were not allowed in the area where ballots were uploaded but Democrats were

Bridgette Thorne, voting technician for Dominion Voting Systems | linkedin | facebook | X

• test ballots were printed on the same paper as actual ballots, making them indistinguishable from actual ballots
• stacks of test ballots were left unsecured all over the facility
• test ballots were printed out a second time due to lost batches of ballots

David Cross, recount witness

• The transport bags were not secured with security zip tabs required to maintain proof of chain of custody.
• Provided photos and bag ids
• News... https://www.ntd.com/security-concerns-during-georgia-recount_532930.html

To use your logic against you. Do people sign affidavits and swear to things under penalty of perjury, all the time? Yes. 

1st: GF could've been mistaken. Someone could sign an affidavit say they honestly saw something and didn't and still not be prosecuted for perjury. 

2nd: Again people can be mistaken or nudged into believing just about anything. That's how cults work! 

3rd: how can they be certain of the math? Probably can't so their judgement is suspect. An opinion is not evidence. 

4th: 'appeared identical' how can someone know something like that to a level that would rise to credible evidence or a lawyer(who uses words for a living) think a judge will allow such shoddy work? 

5th: can anyone else attest to this? if not, its just opinion. Swearing to that on the stand gives it no credibility without confirmation.

6th: not sure what point they are trying to make other then ballots that shouldn't be counted and didn't saying they were, existed. 

7th: if the only source you could find or trust is NTD, you lose. I'm sorry you are at a place where your paranoia is so much that THIS is where you feel is a trusted source of information. Its a cult masquerading as a news source. 

 

To sum up: people can believe they are telling the truth. Memory is mailable and easily influenced when the truth may cause you trauma(ie any traumatic experience, ever we tend to find it fuzzy so as to not relive it). You have sited no independent or unbiased source of similar facts. So no, you don't get to enter this pablum into the court record. 

People are denied retrials of death penalty cases with MUCH better evidence than this. So it makes me sick that people are still whining about how they didn't get a fair chance. They did. With as much money and resources as the RNC has/had for this effort they could not find ANYTHING of substance to stand on to move these cases forward. On top of that plenty of people have been sued for defamation BECAUSE there was nothing that could be proven. The victim mentality of the religious right is a powerful defense for their ideas not being true, but they were and continue to be wrong on this subject. It won't change. It never will. You really should just move on. Let the people that need to go to jail, just like in the Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, and 45 administration, go to jail. Lick your wounds and come back with actual policies to help the country. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

12 hours ago, jross said:

Sane person says "These people believe they were telling the truth in what they observed."

Why was the case dismissed?

• Because the judge determined no individual voter was harmed even if the observations were true.

What became of this case?

On December 20, 2022, Petitioners in the counterfeit ballot case won a confirmation of standing from the Georgia Supreme Court which forced the Court of Appeals to remand their case back to Superior Court where Petitioners could open discovery and proceed with the inspection of 2020 Fulton County mail-in ballots.  

Judge Amero recused himself and gave the case to Judge McBurney.

A motion to recuse McBurney for bias was submitted on May 16th, 2023.  (90 days to address was missed)

On October 11th, Judge McBurney ordered the recusal motions be heard by another superior court judge.

Two defense attorneys for Georgia recused themself from the case in November.

Judge Leftridge denies the recusal motion against Judge McBurney on December 7th.

Waiting on judge McBurney at this point.

If there is nothing to hide, all involved should be willing to show the ballots

You're moving the goal posts again and I don't think you realize you're doing it. 

You need to prove that seeing the ballots has a likely hood of producing what you think will be produced. You haven't. You can't. You won't. There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud that would effect the outcome in a meaningful way. That people are uneducated and make mistakes on a process they partake once every two years is a possible or probable explanation. What you're suggesting, isn't. 

If the ballots get opened up(which I doubt they will) and nothing is found. My prophecy is that you have too much invested in this conspiracy to let it go and will  explain it away, some how, so you can continue believing. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

15 hours ago, mspart said:

You are making the case that I was correct by saying, "One side says there is something to look at here and the other says, no there isn't."    Yet you are arguing you are not.   Very interesting. 

mspart

Nuh uh, I'm right and you're wrong. 

[jross]

13 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Your argument boils down to, 'its not perfect, so we can't even try.' 

Sounds about right. That case was from 2005. There have been improvements to the mail in process.

Thank you for the commentary.  It is Mr. Adams' argument.  

If you haven't already, watch Mr. Adams from start to finish (~16 minutes).  The video link starts at the time when Mr. Adams begins speaking. 

Why is Mr. Adams speaking to Georgia? (to educate Georgia about problems across the country) 

What does Mr. Adams say can be done to improve the process?  (skip to about 29:30)

The age of that example has no bearing on the larger context of the education communicated.

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 hours ago, jross said:

That after answering your questions you went ahead and didn't answer mine. I'd say I'm shocked but also not surprised. 

Also, you went and edited a comment to make yourself feel better. 

Who are you trying to impress? 

Have better evidence/arguments and you'd, not impress people because you're petty, but might gain back some respect. 

[jross]

36 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

To use your logic against you. Do people sign affidavits and swear to things under penalty of perjury, all the time? Yes....1st...7th...blather about unrelated death penalty... more blather

This is a serious matter.

The transparency and integrity of elections are crucial, and allegations of fraud need to be investigated to maintain public trust in the electoral process.

You are dismissing this out of hand.

These people wrote down batch numbers, took photos of unsecured bags, and so on... 

The lead on this is an independent who has advocated for Democrats in the past...

Edited January 3 by jross

[jross]

17 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

No. Have no need to. Doesn't offer any new information that hasn't been litigated, extensively, and dismissed.

You tell me. Should I assume they are or do you? Just so we're clear, these questions seek to clarify nothing of significance other then to stroke your ego. If you want to make a point by these questions it would be easier and less toolish to just make it. I have no idea why someone would do anything and not knowing anything about them it serves no purpose to guess. 

Previous history says my writings and citations will be dismissed out of hand... so I requested you to do your own research rather than take my word for it.  Without openness to contrarian information, conversation is limited...

 

My intention in suggesting you (and others) engage with the Georgia case material was to bring new insights to conversation and broaden understanding of the topic.  

I wrote this question based on closed statements

• ThreePointTakeDown
  • And remember, there were no legitimate reports of rigging. No evidence of widespread rigging.
• Plasmodium
  • ...to pander to these lies and childishness
• Neutral
  • Anyone stating the 2020 election was rigged and that Donald Trump won is a farking idiot.

 

Have you read the materials where Democrats *admitted the election was rigged in big tech tools and with election law changes in Biden's favor before the election. 

*This information is not well-discussed but it is well-informed.

• Big Tech
• Pre election law changes

If you trust what Democrats shared... then perhaps the eventual outcome of the Georgia case will further inform.

Plasmodium is showing openness.

• Better to pick up discussion after the case winds it's way through the courts...