Poll: Do you like three point takedowns?

[Jim L]

3 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

I’d be in favor of them taking that one rule from jiu jitsu, that it is referees discretion where out of bounds is and continuation beyond the mat is always the assumption. 

Nobody plays the line in jiu jitsu bc it is moving and entirely up to the ref.

Another rule in JJ is that you reset in bounds in the same position you were in when you went out of bounds, so if you were in a crappy position crawling out of bounds does not help. It took me years to get rid of the instinct of looking for the out of bounds line and starting to work towards when I was in a position I didn't like.

The other JJ solution that I used to see was a ref freezing the athletes in position and then dragging them both to the center of the mat.

[mad_rascal]

I like the way it influences a 1 takedown match. In the old rules the wrestler without a takedown could win in regulation with 2 escapes and a full period ride out. Now, it would force OT, which I think is perfect. Hadn't thought about bonus points, but that is an interesting point brought up earlier. Still waiting to judge on the 2 point reversal.

[neutral]

The 3 pt TD artificially inflates the value of a TD and deflates the value of escapes and reversals.  I don't like it, but no one cares whether I like it or not.  It will affect the tempo and outcomes of matches as rule changes always do.  It is up to the wrestlers and coaches to work around it.  From a spectator standpoint I will watch fewer college matches.  Again, no one cares whether I watch it or not that is just the nature of sport.

[1032004]

32 minutes ago, neutral said:

The 3 pt TD artificially inflates the value of a TD and deflates the value of escapes and reversals. 

Artificially, lol

[neutral]

There once was a time when the first TD was worth 2 and each subsequent was only worth one.  The intent was to stop the TD and release game.  Now the incentive for cut and release jumped. 

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, neutral said:

There once was a time when the first TD was worth 2 and each subsequent was only worth one.  The intent was to stop the TD and release game.  Now the incentive for cut and release jumped. 

So more neutral wrestling, you should be happy. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

18 hours ago, Jim L said:

Another rule in JJ is that you reset in bounds in the same position you were in when you went out of bounds, so if you were in a crappy position crawling out of bounds does not help. It took me years to get rid of the instinct of looking for the out of bounds line and starting to work towards when I was in a position I didn't like.

The other JJ solution that I used to see was a ref freezing the athletes in position and then dragging them both to the center of the mat.

That used to be a rule in college wrestling.  It didn't survive.

[neutral]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

So more neutral wrestling, you should be happy. 

Nope, I am not

[1032004]

I actually saw a suggestion on HR which wasn’t horrible and would help with the alleged defensiveness - TD is worth 3 if you initiate the move and 2 if you don’t.

Makes sense in theory but does add more complication and ref subjectivity

[ionel]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

I actually saw a suggestion on HR which wasn’t horrible and would help with the alleged defensiveness - TD is worth 3 if you initiate the move and 2 if you don’t.

Makes sense in theory but does add more complication and ref subjectivity

How would we determine this?  Stop the match for review and decision by a jury of peers, each wrestler gets 2 minutes to state their case on why they should deemed to have initiated the move?  

[1032004]

57 minutes ago, ionel said:

How would we determine this?  Stop the match for review and decision by a jury of peers, each wrestler gets 2 minutes to state their case on why they should deemed to have initiated the move?  

Just have some Cornell lawyers matside

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Just have some Cornell lawyers matside

Maybe a new opportunity for Vak.  

[gimpeltf]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

How would we determine this?  Stop the match for review and decision by a jury of peers, each wrestler gets 2 minutes to state their case on why they should deemed to have initiated the move?  

 

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Just have some Cornell lawyers matside

Or do this-

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

 

Or do this-

well ... there is that.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

9 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

 

Or do this-

Yes, please. More this.

[MPhillips]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I actually saw a suggestion on HR which wasn’t horrible and would help with the alleged defensiveness - TD is worth 3 if you initiate the move and 2 if you don’t.

Which part isn't, "horrible?"

[1032004]

8 hours ago, MPhillips said:

Which part isn't, "horrible?"

Because if it could actually be executed I think it solves the alleged problem of guys being too defensive.

But yeah, it probably can’t be.  Interesting to see so much pushback despite “who initiated it” being part of the freestyle rule set and the common claim (albeit probably not from the people that replied here) that “FS is better than folk,”  …

[Not the Real Scribe]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:17 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

- I think a 3 point reversal would further disincentive top wrestling.  We don't need less top wrestling. 

 

Very, very good point.  Totally agree.  A 3-point reversal would disincentivize aggressive top wrestling.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

The number of people who think a takedown is worth 3 in high school wrestling  is terrifying.