Reminder - mat side weigh ins are the way to go

[PencilNeck]

11 hours ago, nick said:

Indiana this year you can do up to six matches in one day (limit of 10 in a two day span however) - that would be a ton of weighins, no idea how a coach could manage that effectively while dealing with actual coaching and people management

weighing in involves stepping up onto a scale and holding still for five seconds. The 30-60 minutes of jogging around in a sweat suit is completely optional, and actually not recommended if you can avoid it.

[nick]

52 minutes ago, PencilNeck said:

weighing in involves stepping up onto a scale and holding still for five seconds. The 30-60 minutes of jogging around in a sweat suit is completely optional, and actually not recommended if you can avoid it.

Yes, weight cutting is not recommended, got it

It's more so making sure they are on weight as the day goes on... I have 50+ kids on my JV team, it's hard enough to make sure they are all on weight once much less multiple times

Edited October 19, 2023 by nick

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

56 minutes ago, nick said:

Yes, weight cutting is not recommended, got it

It's more so making sure they are on weight as the day goes on... I have 50+ kids on my JV team, it's hard enough to make sure they are all on weight once much less multiple times

lol I can see some coaches losing their minds over this!

[BobDole]

1 hour ago, nick said:

Yes, weight cutting is not recommended, got it

It's more so making sure they are on weight as the day goes on... I have 50+ kids on my JV team, it's hard enough to make sure they are all on weight once much less multiple times

Well now you have to hunt little Johnny down scarfing down food and then have him hop on the scale to make weight for the fourth time in one day. Then when he doesn't make it, you have to go explain to his mom why he can't wrestle even though he did three times prior.

Making kids weigh in multiple times in one day is an extremely bad idea.

[Jim L]

Everyone in the anti-matside weigh-ins group seems to ignore the possibility of having one weigh-in per tournament.

If the matches scone quickly that will achieve essentially same effect as multiple weigh-ins with the added benefit of shortening the day for individual wrestlers.

 

 

[JVStateChamp]

25 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Everyone in the anti-matside weigh-ins group seems to ignore the possibility of having one weigh-in per tournament.

If the matches scone quickly that will achieve essentially same effect as multiple weigh-ins with the added benefit of shortening the day for individual wrestlers.

 

 

The belief is that if you do one weigh in per tournament the most elite high school(not as much college) wrestlers will still cut the same amount of weight due to the fact they will be wrestling a lesser opponent in the first round of a big tournament. But yes this could be a compromise for both sides.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

48 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Everyone in the anti-matside weigh-ins group seems to ignore the possibility of having one weigh-in per tournament.

If the matches scone quickly that will achieve essentially same effect as multiple weigh-ins with the added benefit of shortening the day for individual wrestlers.

 

 

One weigh-in wouldn't bother me too too much.  However it seems that you are one of the few matside guys that doesn't think there should be a weigh-in every round.  This includes some of the Flo Bros who think a kid should be weighing in 2-6x per day!

[Jim L]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

One weigh-in wouldn't bother me too too much.  However it seems that you are one of the few matside guys that doesn't think there should be a weigh-in every round.  This includes some of the Flo Bros who think a kid should be weighing in 2-6x per day!

I don't listen to the Flo Bros, so I was unaware that they were advocating this.

[ThreePointTakedown]

20 hours ago, Formally140 said:

Programs will drop. Everyone is making very big assumptions 

I'll take vague statements for $600, Alex?

[CHROMEBIRD]

One weigh-in per day is enough.

Maybe matside weigh-ins should be seen as an opportunity. Make the wrestlers face-off like they do at boxing or MMA weigh-ins. Home guy (at a dual) comes out to his walk-out music, faces his opponent matside, then they each step on the scale. Show the fans what each guy weighs-in at. If a wrestler misses weight he can step off the scale and has one more try with a two minute timer or the coaches can sub-in another guy. Create tension. There's nothing wrong with adding drama to wrestling. A lot of fans would love that stuff. People also bet on anything and there could be action around the weigh-in weights.

[ThreePointTakedown]

Should change the title of this thread to 'Perfect Is The Enemy of Good'. 

Cutting weight is bane of this sport. Its a tragedy that we still allow it. 

No one is winning or losing a scholarship at U8 Tulsa Nationals. But I guarantee, someone is running to make weight. Think about that? That should be a crime. 

[Dark Energy]

13 hours ago, JVStateChamp said:

This will induce more forfeits at all levels. For college coaches, finding a 20-year-old wrestler who naturally walks around at 122-123 will be very challenging. If the NCAA decides to go towards this change, weight class changes will be needed. 

Also, where do you see the biggest negative impact on the weigh-in process right now in Division 1 wrestling? 

There will be more forfeits early as the lowest IQ folks and the diehard weight cutters slowly adapt. Agreed.  But they will adapt.  I have excellent faith.  

You are proving my point by saying there are few super light weight guys in college.  Adjust the weight classes.  Not a big deal.

The biggest negative impact?  The unhealthy weight cutting and how miserable it makes wrestlers at many age levels.  It sucks and is a very ugly aspect of the sport.

RE tournaments - perhaps first match is mat side weigh ins.  Then when get to semi finals another with small allowance.  

For those worried about young folks pre high school - let tourney director decide on process - not a big deal, keep low stress.  Do best to discourage unseemly weight cutting.

JV has you stressed, fine, stay loose.  Just like match lengths differ and often coaches are just lining up similar size guys to compete.  Again, no big deal.  

But lock it in for Varsity.

Issues being mentioned can easily be handled.

 

[gimpeltf]

And who coordinates who weighs in for pigtails? Does the wrestler with a bye weigh in with the earlier pigtail bout? Does everyone weigh in first round even with a bye? What mat do they go to? Do wrestlers with byes wait until their round?

[Dark Energy]

Register at weight, show up and confirm wrestling and go through skin check.  Draw up brackets at that point.

Another option is weighins like today and draw up brackets.  Prefer former but might need this option early on.  Step on scale again when going to match.  

I’m thinking you need to weigh in for your first match.  So those with bye’s need to step on scale for first match.  Open to ideas here.

 

[Dark Energy]

A challenge to all the folks that prefer to try to ‘challenge’ this idea.  Think about being very motivated to make this work .. say you get $1M if so.  Very important to consider challenges … so you are doing well.  But also very important to figure out the best ways to overcome.  
 

As you mention a challenge - also mention your very best thoughts on how the challenge could be overcome.  Curious to hear your problem solving skills as well.  

[nhs67]

18 hours ago, Jim L said:

Everyone in the anti-matside weigh-ins group seems to ignore the possibility of having one weigh-in per tournament.

If the matches scone quickly that will achieve essentially same effect as multiple weigh-ins with the added benefit of shortening the day for individual wrestlers.

 

 

When is the one weigh in?  Is it dealer's choice?  Coaches choice via vote, like a seeding meeting?  After everyone's first match?  Before their last match?

[nhs67]

40 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Register at weight, show up and confirm wrestling and go through skin check.  Draw up brackets at that point.

Another option is weighins like today and draw up brackets.  Prefer former but might need this option early on.  Step on scale again when going to match.  

I’m thinking you need to weigh in for your first match.  So those with bye’s need to step on scale for first match.  Open to ideas here.

 

I think this could work, but weighing in for the second match.  It wouldn't be fair to let a kid without a bye not weigh in in his second match which at large tournaments could be some two hours before...(which his first match could be a 10 second pinfell in HS...) and have the other guy have to weigh in matside.  If it is double elimination, have them weigh in 2nd round Championship and first round consolations...

[Jim L]

28 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

When is the one weigh in?  Is it dealer's choice?  Coaches choice via vote, like a seeding meeting?  After everyone's first match?  Before their last match?

Right before your first match. You go through a bullpen that leads to the mats, you step on a scale and have skin and nails check and then go wrestle. You don't make weight you forfeit, this should never happen, as there is a scale to check your weight before you step on the official scale.  You essentially stay matside until you bracket is finished.

This is not a hypothetical.  This is how the large BJJ tournaments work pretty much without any issues. Once you get used to it and get over the way wrestling tournaments work, it makes so much sense and t seems bizarre how stuck people are in the mindset that it cant work.

There is still some weight cutting, but not like wrestling.  I used to love it when I could tell my opponent was cutting weight, I felt that this was a huge advantage for me.

And cutting weight is the worst part of wrestling, not only for the wrestlers but also for the parents and coaches.

[Dark Energy]

53 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I think this could work, but weighing in for the second match.  It wouldn't be fair to let a kid without a bye not weigh in in his second match which at large tournaments could be some two hours before...(which his first match could be a 10 second pinfell in HS...) and have the other guy have to weigh in matside.  If it is double elimination, have them weigh in 2nd round Championship and first round consolations...

Not sure it is much of an advantage.  Both guys had to weigh in for their first match right then.  Today the guy with bye has a much bigger advantage … they have way way more time to rehydrate and recover before their first match.  
 

I believe this is a minor concern over all.  A bye is inherently unfair.

[Dark Energy]

@Jim L - well said.

[nhs67]

15 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Not sure it is much of an advantage.  Both guys had to weigh in for their first match right then.  Today the guy with bye has a much bigger advantage … they have way way more time to rehydrate and recover before their first match.  
 

I believe this is a minor concern over all.  A bye is inherently unfair.

So the guy who earned the higher seed to get the bye shouldn't get the benefit of a bye now?  Won't happen.

37 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Right before your first match. You go through a bullpen that leads to the mats, you step on a scale and have skin and nails check and then go wrestle. You don't make weight you forfeit, this should never happen, as there is a scale to check your weight before you step on the official scale.  You essentially stay matside until you bracket is finished.

This is not a hypothetical.  This is how the large BJJ tournaments work pretty much without any issues. Once you get used to it and get over the way wrestling tournaments work, it makes so much sense and t seems bizarre how stuck people are in the mindset that it cant work.

There is still some weight cutting, but not like wrestling.  I used to love it when I could tell my opponent was cutting weight, I felt that this was a huge advantage for me.

And cutting weight is the worst part of wrestling, not only for the wrestlers but also for the parents and coaches.

These two sports are grappling sports.  I see the similarity there.  From there you get pretty far apart, though.  PED use is rampant to a very deep level in BJJ/ADCC tournaments.  Especially the higher up and more serious you go.  You're going to have to come up with a better example than one that compares a clean sport to an unclean one, because those guys use all sorts of shit to get on weight beforehand.

[nhs67]

17 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Not sure it is much of an advantage.  Both guys had to weigh in for their first match right then.  Today the guy with bye has a much bigger advantage … they have way way more time to rehydrate and recover before their first match.  
 

I believe this is a minor concern over all.  A bye is inherently unfair.

I want to touch base on this more.

Higher seeds earn byes by performing better at tournaments beforehand.  They earn it, and now you want to make it a disadvantage for them?

[nhs67]

I can be bought with the one-off per tournament if it is done before the 2nd match (in double eliminations).  Taking away a perceived and earned advantage is a no-go for me.  You can't penalize kids for doing better nor can you expect them to be able to handle it better because they performed better previously.  It isn't how it should work.

[Dark Energy]

If this is the best argument against, all good.

[nhs67]

35 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

If this is the best argument against, all good.

This kind of devolved from matside weigh-in for each match to one weigh-in for the entire tournament, though?  Does this include two-day tournies?