TWO PA STATE TROOPERS SHOT

[BerniePragle]

Fortunately, the attacker didn't have a hammer or a rock instead of a gun.  That could have been much worse.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/18/us/pennsylvania-state-police-trooper-killed-juniata-county/index.html

[WrestlingRasta]

So you decided to use the death of a police officer to hop on the opportunity for a snide remark in a chat room??

[mspart]

Fortunately, the attacker will not be doing that ever again. 

mspart

[BerniePragle]

21 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

So you decided to use the death of a police officer to hop on the opportunity for a snide remark in a chat room??

That would be one way to look at it.

Another way would be that my nephew is a PA State Trooper and I worry about him because there are way too many a$$holes with guns.  He's already been shot twice, not in Philly by gangbangers but in NC PA, one by the typical mountain man during a wellness check, one by the typical domestic dispute that also resulted in the death of the perp's wife.  Fortunately, both had guns handy when they "needed" them.  I said what I said in response to the idiotic "If someone wants to kill, he'll figure out a way to do it.  He'll use a rock, hammer, etc."  I doubt this moron would have done what he did with a rock.

Your call to look at it the way you want to.  My call to look at it the way I choose.

Edited June 19, 2023 by BerniePragle

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

That would be one way to look at it.

Another way would be that my nephew is a PA State Trooper and I worry about him because there are way too many a$$holes with guns.  He's already been shot twice, not in Philly by gangbangers but in NC PA, one by the typical mountain man during a wellness check, one by the typical domestic dispute that also resulted in the death of the perp's wife.  Fortunately, both had guns handy when they "needed" them.  I said what I said in response to the idiotic "If someone wants to kill, he'll figure out a way to do it.  He'll use a rock, hammer, etc."  I doubt this moron would have done what he did with a rock.

Your call to look at it the way you want to.  My call to look at it the way I choose.

It's not a matter of how one wants to look at it, it's a matter of what actually happened.  And what actually happened is you used the death of a police officer to hop on an opportunity to make a snide remark in a chat room.  There was no comment on this thread about a rock for you to respond to, in fact.....you started the thread with said comment.  You can justify it the way you want to, my call to look at it for what it is.

If that was your dead nephew in the article and someone used it to make a snide remark on a chat room, you'd be pissed as hell.  Which....only makes your choice worse.   But....it is your choice, do with it as you will.  Have a good day.

[BerniePragle]

15 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

It's not a matter of how one wants to look at it, it's a matter of what actually happened.  And what actually happened is you used the death of a police officer to hop on an opportunity to make a snide remark in a chat room.  There was no comment on this thread about a rock for you to respond to, in fact.....you started the thread with said comment.  You can justify it the way you want to, my call to look at it for what it is.

If that was your dead nephew in the article and someone used it to make a snide remark on a chat room, you'd be pissed as hell.  Which....only makes your choice worse.   But....it is your choice, do with it as you will.  Have a good day.

Even you can't be stupid enough to think I'd be the least bit concerned with what someone would view as a "snide remark in a chat room" if my nephew were shot in the line of duty.

I would be "pissed as hell" at the moron with the gun that shot my nephew and at the gun and ammo manufacturers who empowered him in return for company profits.  Oh yeah, and the paid-off politicians who perpetuate the cycle.

You have a nice day too, Chief.

[LJB]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/three-charged-murder-colorado-rock-throwing-death-rcna82798

 

[Bigbrog]

9 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

Even you can't be stupid enough to think I'd be the least bit concerned with what someone would view as a "snide remark in a chat room" if my nephew were shot in the line of duty.

I would be "pissed as hell" at the moron with the gun that shot my nephew and at the gun and ammo manufacturers who empowered him in return for company profits.  Oh yeah, and the paid-off politicians who perpetuate the cycle.

You have a nice day too, Chief.

So you are using the death of police officers and your nephew who got shot to push some stupid political agenda...and what's worse is how you twist it in your head to make it okay to do so.  

You just can't make this stuff up....

[BerniePragle]

6 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

So you are using the death of police officers and your nephew who got shot to push some stupid political agenda...and what's worse is how you twist it in your head to make it okay to do so.  

You just can't make this stuff up....

If by "stupid political agenda" you mean getting guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people, sure, sign me up for that one.

"You just can't make this stuff up."   I've never heard that before.  Is that something you came up with all by yourself? I only wish I were that creative.  Alas, I'm limited to only regurgitating things other people come up with.  To wit:

“Lack of originality, everywhere, all over the world, from time immemorial, has always been considered the foremost quality and the recommendation of the active, efficient and practical man.”
― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Idiot

[Bigbrog]

12 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

If by "stupid political agenda" you mean getting guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people, sure, sign me up for that one.

"You just can't make this stuff up."   I've never heard that before.  Is that something you came up with all by yourself? I only wish I were that creative.  Alas, I'm limited to only regurgitating things other people come up with.  To wit:

“Lack of originality, everywhere, all over the world, from time immemorial, has always been considered the foremost quality and the recommendation of the active, efficient and practical man.”
― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Idiot

Thanks for making my point...again.

You just can't make this stuff up....

[GreatWhiteNorth]

15 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Thanks for making my point...again.

You just can't make this stuff up....

Sounds like you and Bernie are at odds.

You being more "guns-for-everyone", and he being more "no-guns-for-crazies."

Hmm.. seems like there is middle ground here. Which might be a sensible approach if we're looking to improve.

 

 

[Bigbrog]

7 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Sounds like you and Bernie are at odds.

You being more "guns-for-everyone", and he being more "no-guns-for-crazies."

Hmm.. seems like there is middle ground here. Which might be a sensible approach if we're looking to improve.

 

 

I agree with most of what you said except the part that I'm more guns for everyone.  There is a sensible approach to guns in our country and am all for our idiots in congress working together.  But what I can't stand is when people use tragedy to push a political narrative.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

16 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

I agree with most of what you said except the part that I'm more guns for everyone.  There is a sensible approach to guns in our country and am all for our idiots in congress working together.  But what I can't stand is when people use tragedy to push a political narrative.

That is true - tragedy is the fuel that runs so many narratives. The same practice is used by all parties, all the time, without remorse.

Unfortunately, that is the current, horrible political landscape. Why? Because it works.

Even around here, see posts about "think of the children" as a way for posters to push their politics. Same crap - not about children, just more politics.

Next question would seem to be "why does it work?" ... because so many of us tend to be honest and compassionate. The snakes take advantage of that all day long.

[BerniePragle]

2 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

That is true - tragedy is the fuel that runs so many narratives. The same practice is used by all parties, all the time, without remorse.

Unfortunately, that is the current, horrible political landscape. Why? Because it works.

Even around here, see posts about "think of the children" as a way for posters to push their politics. Same crap - not about children, just more politics.

Next question would seem to be "why does it work?" ... because so many of us tend to be honest and compassionate. The snakes take advantage of that all day long.

I posted this to try to show the idiocy of the old "He could have used a rock or a hammer" argument so loved by some.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It should be obvious that this guy very most likely would not have killed a PA State Trooper and critically injured another without a gun.  The gun empowered someone who obviously (to me anyway) shouldn't have had one, to take a life.  In that sense, it did what it was intended to do.  Again, pretty obvious.  

Amazing to me that so many people, and one organization which is the most politically connected in the country, have such a hard time admitting that there exists at least one person in the US who shouldn't be in possesion of a gun.  I'm even more amazed how people such as myself are constantly accused of "having an agenda", while the companies making money through the sales of guns and ammo must not have an agenda.  Now, to use a turn on a well worn phrase... I couldn't make that up.

Anyway, fear not sheep.  If the murders of 26 people in an elementary school, and countless other tragedies, couldn't reign in the NRA, one PA State Trooper certainly isn't.  Carry on...

[LJB]

3 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

I posted this to try to show the idiocy of the old "He could have used a rock or a hammer" argument so loved by some.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It should be obvious that this guy very most likely would not have killed a PA State Trooper and critically injured another without a gun.  The gun empowered someone who obviously (to me anyway) shouldn't have had one, to take a life.  In that sense, it did what it was intended to do.  Again, pretty obvious.  

Amazing to me that so many people, and one organization which is the most politically connected in the country, have such a hard time admitting that there exists at least one person in the US who shouldn't be in possesion of a gun.  I'm even more amazed how people such as myself are constantly accused of "having an agenda", while the companies making money through the sales of guns and ammo must not have an agenda.  Now, to use a turn on a well worn phrase... I couldn't make that up.

Anyway, fear not sheep.  If the murders of 26 people in an elementary school, and countless other tragedies, couldn't reign in the NRA, one PA State Trooper certainly isn't.  Carry on...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/three-charged-murder-colorado-rock-throwing-death-rcna82798

[Bigbrog]

6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

That is true - tragedy is the fuel that runs so many narratives. The same practice is used by all parties, all the time, without remorse.

Unfortunately, that is the current, horrible political landscape. Why? Because it works.

Even around here, see posts about "think of the children" as a way for posters to push their politics. Same crap - not about children, just more politics.

Next question would seem to be "why does it work?" ... because so many of us tend to be honest and compassionate. The snakes take advantage of that all day long.

Again...don't disagree.  But any sensible person who truly is open minded about root causes of problems, wouldn't use pure emotion when formulating their opinion, or possible solution to a problem.  If Bernie Boy could formulate a logical argument using both emotion AND some data/logic/common sense, then I'd be open to listening and debating in a respectful manner.  Even his follow up response right yours is nothing but emotion, narrative, name calling, and generalization of a huge swath of people he has never met nor probably ever listened to except for what he hears on MSM.  He is blaming everyone under the sun who have NOTHING to do with killing of honorable police officers, kids, etc.  And he somehow thinks shutting down gun manufactures or suing them will somehow stop bad people from doing bad things.  And the worse part of it is he comes back with the emotional trope "You must not care that kids are shot!!"  And in my opinion, it's people like him that hurt the ability for people to work together to make things better.  People do, and should, have different opinions...and if they are able to work together you more than likely achieve a better outcome then a group of like-minded people doing it themselves.  

[Bigbrog]

Stupid thing wouldn't let me edit...forgot to add...I know there are closed minded people on the "other side" too.

[Plasmodium]

5 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

I posted this to try to show the idiocy of the old "He could have used a rock or a hammer" argument so loved by some.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It should be obvious that this guy very most likely would not have killed a PA State Trooper and critically injured another without a gun.  The gun empowered someone who obviously (to me anyway) shouldn't have had one, to take a life.  In that sense, it did what it was intended to do.  Again, pretty obvious.  

Amazing to me that so many people, and one organization which is the most politically connected in the country, have such a hard time admitting that there exists at least one person in the US who shouldn't be in possesion of a gun.  I'm even more amazed how people such as myself are constantly accused of "having an agenda", while the companies making money through the sales of guns and ammo must not have an agenda.  Now, to use a turn on a well worn phrase... I couldn't make that up.

Anyway, fear not sheep.  If the murders of 26 people in an elementary school, and countless other tragedies, couldn't reign in the NRA, one PA State Trooper certainly isn't.  Carry on...

Spot on. 

Too many tragedies to name.  They keep building, each less emotionally impactful than the last.  They are becoming normalized.  All the blood of hundreds of children and more than 1 mass shooting a day for decades can't overcome the unique culture that enables it.

[Bigbrog]

27 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Spot on. 

Too many tragedies to name.  They keep building, each less emotionally impactful than the last.  They are becoming normalized.  All the blood of hundreds of children and more than 1 mass shooting a day for decades can't overcome the unique culture that enables it.

So everyone knows this, but what are the solutions?  Other than the ole tired "Get Rid Of Guns" rhetoric.   

Readily available and cheap mental health programs for children and adults.  Makes it more "Ok" in our society and normal to talk about (but not force pills down people's throats).  Start getting our society to refocus the role of parents and on parenting skills.  Bring back some of the accountability norms for people and their actions...including how they behave on the internet.  Tell people to turn off their tv.  Demand our politicians work together!  Severe punishments for crimes that occur while in possession of guns.  I could go on but these are my some of my simple mind solutions. 

But I will say...my No. 1 thing that will help reduce tragic events like mass murder is PARENTING!!!  We need to change our culture around parenting and what their role is.  And we can start by holding parents accountable for the action of their kids!

[LJB]

3 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

So everyone knows this, but what are the solutions?  Other than the ole tired "Get Rid Of Guns" rhetoric.   

Readily available and cheap mental health programs for children and adults.  Makes it more "Ok" in our society and normal to talk about (but not force pills down people's throats).  Start getting our society to refocus the role of parents and on parenting skills.  Bring back some of the accountability norms for people and their actions...including how they behave on the internet.  Tell people to turn off their tv.  Demand our politicians work together!  Severe punishments for crimes that occur while in possession of guns.  I could go on but these are my some of my simple mind solutions. 

But I will say...my No. 1 thing that will help reduce tragic events like mass murder is PARENTING!!!  We need to change our culture around parenting and what their role is.  And we can start by holding parents accountable for the action of their kids!

those are not good enough talking points to get clicks on a headline...

[Bigbrog]

6 minutes ago, LJB said:

those are not good enough talking points to get clicks on a headline...

  

[WrestlingRasta]

44 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

So everyone knows this, but what are the solutions?  Other than the ole tired "Get Rid Of Guns" rhetoric.   

Readily available and cheap mental health programs for children and adults.  Makes it more "Ok" in our society and normal to talk about (but not force pills down people's throats).  Start getting our society to refocus the role of parents and on parenting skills.  Bring back some of the accountability norms for people and their actions...including how they behave on the internet.  Tell people to turn off their tv.  Demand our politicians work together!  Severe punishments for crimes that occur while in possession of guns.  I could go on but these are my some of my simple mind solutions. 

But I will say...my No. 1 thing that will help reduce tragic events like mass murder is PARENTING!!!  We need to change our culture around parenting and what their role is.  And we can start by holding parents accountable for the action of their kids!

Whole hearted agreement.  To add a branch under parenting.......developing coping skills.   We don't want kids to have to cope with problems and feel uncomfortable anymore, we want to fix it for them and make sure they always feel nice and cozy all of the time.   Then they get out in the real world....

 

Honestly, I don't think any of us on this board have the correct answers to this problem.   That would take being heavily involved and invested in the work (research, etc) to carve out the best solutions.  The biggest problem as you've pointed to, it's never going to happen until we sit down and talk.  As long as both sides main priority is silencing and/or defending the other side's ideas on the issue it will continue to get more divisive.

Two facts that can be and are mutually true:    A gun sitting on a table with no one around it isn't going to shoot anyone.  Likewise, a crazed unfit individual who doesn't have access to a gun isn't going to shoot anyone. 

[Bigbrog]

8 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Whole hearted agreement.  To add a branch under parenting.......developing coping skills.   We don't want kids to have to cope with problems and feel uncomfortable anymore, we want to fix it for them and make sure they always feel nice and cozy all of the time.   Then they get out in the real world....

 

Honestly, I don't think any of us on this board have the correct answers to this problem.   That would take being heavily involved and invested in the work (research, etc) to carve out the best solutions.  The biggest problem as you've pointed to, it's never going to happen until we sit down and talk.  As long as both sides main priority is silencing and/or defending the other side's ideas on the issue it will continue to get more divisive.

Two facts that can be and are mutually true:    A gun sitting on a table with no one around it isn't going to shoot anyone.  Likewise, a crazed unfit individual who doesn't have access to a gun isn't going to shoot anyone. 

[LJB]

9 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Whole hearted agreement.  To add a branch under parenting.......developing coping skills.   We don't want kids to have to cope with problems and feel uncomfortable anymore, we want to fix it for them and make sure they always feel nice and cozy all of the time.   Then they get out in the real world....

 

Honestly, I don't think any of us on this board have the correct answers to this problem.   That would take being heavily involved and invested in the work (research, etc) to carve out the best solutions.  The biggest problem as you've pointed to, it's never going to happen until we sit down and talk.  As long as both sides main priority is silencing and/or defending the other side's ideas on the issue it will continue to get more divisive.

Two facts that can be and are mutually true:    A gun sitting on a table with no one around it isn't going to shoot anyone.  Likewise, a crazed unfit individual who doesn't have access to a gun isn't going to shoot anyone. 

that same crazy unfit individual will find a way...

they always do...

i have posted a link of kids causing a woman to die by throwing rocks at her windshield...

it has been conveniently ignored...

we do not have a gun problem...

we have a mental health problem for all the reasons (and more) you listed...

gun deaths pale in number every year in this country to deaths associated with obesity and sloth...

but...

that issue does not generate enough money as compared to the food industry's lobbyists, so, those deaths do not matter...

[WrestlingRasta]

11 minutes ago, LJB said:

that same crazy unfit individual will find a way...

they always do...

i have posted a link of kids causing a woman to die by throwing rocks at her windshield...

it has been conveniently ignored...

we do not have a gun problem...

we have a mental health problem for all the reasons (and more) you listed...

gun deaths pale in number every year in this country to deaths associated with obesity and sloth...

but...

that issue does not generate enough money as compared to the food industry's lobbyists, so, those deaths do not matter...

Can’t disagree with the majority of this. Particularly the last part. Except the part about we don’t have gun problem. We can have both a gun and a mental health problem, and we do. 
 

But as it pertains to guns/lethal weapons. Agree we cannot completely eliminate the desire for humans to kill other humans, and the means to find a way to do it.   BUT, that kids have the ability to kill a person by stoning, does not mean the ability for an unfit person to easily obtain a weapon that will allow them to walk into a building and fire off a hundred rounds every couple minutes is not a problem. 
 

In fact is amplifies my point. How long diid it take for the whole scenario with the kids and rocks to end in death, vs how long did it take the Nashville shooter to kill, however many it killed? 
 

(I ask that not knowing much about the case you are referring to)