mspart Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 Yeah, I don't like the shot clock. Not too many are concerned about that and let it run out anyways without doing anything. I like this idea better. mspart
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 i do always love these rule "ideas" and "proposals" and "suggestions" that always pop up after an event by someone whose fav athlete did not get the result they wanted... i often wonder if anyone actually thinks they are making a difference on these threads...
Formally140 Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 58 minutes ago, LJB said: i do always love these rule "ideas" and "proposals" and "suggestions" that always pop up after an event by someone whose fav athlete did not get the result they wanted... i often wonder if anyone actually thinks they are making a difference on these threads... To be fair. Dropping to your knees in the zone is clear negative wrestling and I’m actually surprised it isn’t the rule
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Formally140 said: To be fair. Dropping to your knees in the zone is clear negative wrestling and I’m actually surprised it isn’t the rule it is something that is talked about in OEPs and clear violations should be a caution... again... at the highest levels of wrestling it is called with much more consistency than we see domestically... BTW... negative wrestling was redefined by UWW a month ago... negative wrestling is now defined as any action intended to injure...
Formally140 Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 38 minutes ago, LJB said: it is something that is talked about in OEPs and clear violations should be a caution... again... at the highest levels of wrestling it is called with much more consistency than we see domestically... BTW... negative wrestling was redefined by UWW a month ago... negative wrestling is now defined as any action intended to injure... Is that in addition or a redefinition?
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Formally140 said: Is that in addition or a redefinition? redefinition
Formally140 Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, LJB said: redefinition So please help out an ignorant hs coach.. how does this affect the way it’s called?
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Formally140 said: So please help out an ignorant hs coach.. how does this affect the way it’s called? negative wrestling will only be called if there is an intent to injure... everything else is now just passivity
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 as an example... just grabbing the fingers will be an attention, but, grabbing the fingers and bending them in a way that could cause injury would be negative wrestling...
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 keep in mind, this was explained to me in about a 3 minute conversation during a tourney, so, keep that in mind... but... it was explained to a coach at U20 trials in the same way...
Formally140 Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, LJB said: as an example... just grabbing the fingers will be an attention, but, grabbing the fingers and bending them in a way that could cause injury would be negative wrestling... I’m discussing this with a buddy who knows freestyle. That seems like it’ll make it a lot more vague and questionable..
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Formally140 said: I’m discussing this with a buddy who knows freestyle. That seems like it’ll make it a lot more vague and questionable.. it actually makes it less vague in my mind... previously, negative wrestling was coined as "preventing" wrestling (blocking off... grabbing fingers... fleeing the hold/mat) and passivity was coined as "not attempting to score"... always confusion regarding some of that... now negative wrestling will be an only an attempt to injure and becomes direct caution and points...
Formally140 Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, LJB said: it actually makes it less vague in my mind... previously, negative wrestling was coined as "preventing" wrestling (blocking off... grabbing fingers... fleeing the hold/mat) and passivity was coined as "not attempting to score"... always confusion regarding some of that... now negative wrestling will be an only an attempt to injure and becomes direct caution and points... Gotcha.
1032004 Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, SlaptheMat said: An absolute horrific example of this issue took place at Final X in regards to comparing the calls of the Yianni/Lee and Richards/Gilman matches. Not only were the grounded situations called in a consistent manner, but they actually penalized a wrestler who was grounded and did not penalize a wrestler who should have been. Richards who was getting backed out of bounds by Gilman literally just dropps to both knees intentionally to avoid push out point. What do they call ? Just call grounded. So no point awarded to Gilman, and they start back center mat. What should they have called ? Should have been a caution 1 against Richards and he should have then started down in parterre position center mat. Nick Lee is pushing Yianni back and Yianni attacks the same way he has a million times before where he fakes a shot right and tries to duck left. Nick Lee ultimately blocks the duck sending Yianni to his knees. Even then , Yianni attempts another shot from his knees to the right and Lee pushes Yianni out of bounds while Yianni is grounded . What do they call ? They caution -1 Yianni and have him start parterre center mat. This not only gives Lee a point but then he got 2 more points from that parterre with a trap arm followed by Yianni getting 1 point reversal. This decided the match as the final was 7-6. Lee should have not gotten the 1 point for caution 1 and should not have been in the position to get the 2 point exposure. Yianni would in turn not get the 1 point reversal. that’s a 2 point swing Yianni’s way in a 1 point loss. Now who is to say that the rest of the match doesn’t end differently if Lee is down instead of up in score. Bottom line, we will never know cause the officials screwed it up. This should have been called grounded as him being on his knees was a result of Lee’s defense against Yianni’s offensive action. It would be one thing if they both did what Richards did (going to his knees intentionally to be grounded ) and they called it two different ways in each match. It is another thing altogether when they call both scenarios wrong opposite of each other. Based on my limited understanding of freestyle, this seems like a fair interpretation. Semi-related question (for anyone), what is the difference between just a “caution” (I’m pretty sure that’s a thing?) and a “caution+1”?
Scouts Honor Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 21 hours ago, mspart said: Yeah, I don't like the shot clock. Not too many are concerned about that and let it run out anyways without doing anything. I like this idea better. mspart i agree, the shot clock has caused even more stalling in the what i have been told is the non stalling wrestling style. the guy not on the clock runs, with no penalty and the other guys knows it so he just follows him around for 30 sec in most cases
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Based on my limited understanding of freestyle, this seems like a fair interpretation. Semi-related question (for anyone), what is the difference between just a “caution” (I’m pretty sure that’s a thing?) and a “caution+1”? there are no just cautions anymore... there are caution and 1 or caution and 2...
1032004 Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 34 minutes ago, LJB said: there are no just cautions anymore... there are caution and 1 or caution and 2... Thanks. So what’s the difference between those?
LJB Posted June 17, 2023 Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Thanks. So what’s the difference between those? https://cdn.uww.org/s3fs-public/2023-01/wrestling_rules.pdf?VersionId=TrwxqsLcMO9mvMEGrLD1PT8AP6.9f9xC it will take some personal initiative, but, will do you some good...
DJT Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 7 hours ago, LJB said: https://cdn.uww.org/s3fs-public/2023-01/wrestling_rules.pdf?VersionId=TrwxqsLcMO9mvMEGrLD1PT8AP6.9f9xC it will take some personal initiative, but, will do you some good... Article 38, if you can’t read the screen shot.
Dylan Greenstein Northfield Mt. Herman, Massachusetts Class of 2025 Committed to Harvard Projected Weight: 285
Isabella Marie Gonzales Clovis East, California Class of 2025 Committed to Iowa (Women) Projected Weight: 117, 124
Maeve Witte Freehold Township, New Jersey Class of 2025 Committed to Lock Haven (Women) Projected Weight: 117
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