UWW rankings

[mspart]

What happened here?  https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2022/November/11/USA-athletes-in-UWW-Year-End-MFS-rankings

Gilman, Burroughs, and Snyder at #1.   That's good, although Gilman didn't win this year.

But Dake is #2 and won, and Taylor is #3 and won.   What is that all about?

74kg
1. Tajmuraz SALKAZANOV (SVK) - $5000
2. Kyle DAKE (USA) - $3000
3. Soner DEMIRTAS (TUR) - $2000

 

86kg
1. Boris MAKOEV (SVK) - $5000
2. Azamat DAULETBEKOV (KAZ) - $3000
3. David TAYLOR (USA) - $2000
 

mspart

[BigRedFan]

11 minutes ago, mspart said:

What happened here?  https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2022/November/11/USA-athletes-in-UWW-Year-End-MFS-rankings

Gilman, Burroughs, and Snyder at #1.   That's good, although Gilman didn't win this year.

But Dake is #2 and won, and Taylor is #3 and won.   What is that all about?

74kg
1. Tajmuraz SALKAZANOV (SVK) - $5000
2. Kyle DAKE (USA) - $3000
3. Soner DEMIRTAS (TUR) - $2000

 

86kg
1. Boris MAKOEV (SVK) - $5000
2. Azamat DAULETBEKOV (KAZ) - $3000
3. David TAYLOR (USA) - $2000
 

mspart

Did you read the article?

Quote

Wrestlers who competed at the World Championships, continental championships, Ranking Series events and select regional games have got the benefit of being active throughout the year.

 

[bnwtwg]

Taylor decided a healthy ACL was more important than 5 grand. Not sure about Dake though because those red lens blue blockers are really getting up there in price due to inflation.

[mspart]

No I didn't read that.  Doesn't hold water for me though.   Unless these tourneys have happened after the WC just recently held, they were for the previous year.   I am not aware of any of these tourneys  happening after the WC of 2022.   If so, I can maybe see it.  But the World Champion should be ranked #1 I would think right after the WCs are held.

I'm not concerned about it.   My feeling is the champ will win, whoever it is.  This just gives KD and DT more incentive I would think. 

mspart

[Husker_Du]

no one is saying/claiming DT/KD is or isn't the best.

it's a program to reward participation in major events.

this has been their system for 2 or 3 years now. and i like it.

[Mike Parrish]

2 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

no one is saying/claiming DT/KD is or isn't the best.

it's a program to reward participation in major events.

this has been their system for 2 or 3 years now. and i like it.

It's a pain to find the actual rules on UWW's site.

https://cdn.uww.org/s3fs-public/2022-02/uww_ranking_rule_book.pdf?VersionId=gWyYUPkiTFNwpBoPZDtZNmn_5UbdEOse

I have mixed feelings about these rules.

[mspart]

I know about the ranking tourneys.   And I think doing that makes sense too.   But I thought that all started over after the WCs.   If that is not the case it would be good to know.   It makes no sense to have KD win the WCs and then be ranked #2 because someone else went to more ranking tourneys the previous year.  How does that make sense?   If there have been ranking series tourneys after WCs, I am not aware.  

mspart

[mspart]

Thanks Mike.   I'll look at that.   Have there been ranking series tourneys since the WCs?  Anyone?  This would be good info. 

mspart

[Mike Parrish]

Just now, mspart said:

I know about the ranking tourneys.   And I think doing that makes sense too.   But I thought that all started over after the WCs.   If that is not the case it would be good to know.   It makes no sense to have KD win the WCs and then be ranked #2 because someone else went to more ranking tourneys the previous year.  How does that make sense?   If there have been ranking series tourneys after WCs, I am not aware.  

mspart

Quote

The 1st of January, United World Wrestling will remove all the points EXCEPT the points of the World
Championships and /or the Olympic Games. In this way, the new ranking will start with the ranking of the last
World Championships and /or the last Olympic Games.

 

[Mike Parrish]

Just now, mspart said:

Thanks Mike.   I'll look at that.   Have there been ranking series tourneys since the WCs?  Anyone?  This would be good info. 

mspart

No. The WCs end the competition year.

[mspart]

Right!   That's all I'm saying.   That ends it, it makes no sense to keep counting those ranking series points after the WCs or Olys.  

mspart

 

[Husker_Du]

you're still confused. there's no ranking series tournaments after worlds. 

[Mike Parrish]

10 minutes ago, mspart said:

Right!   That's all I'm saying.   That ends it, it makes no sense to keep counting those ranking series points after the WCs or Olys.  

mspart

 

If you win WCs, there's very little incentive for you to go to the ranking tournaments the next year.

You start with 45000+ points carried forward, you are guaranteed to be the 1 seed all year at ANY tournaments you enter, and if you win the Continental Championships, you're going to be guaranteed to be the 1 seed at WCs.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mike Parrish

[mspart]

Right.   That's what I'm saying.   So then why do rankings from before the WCs still have affect after the WCs?   If Jan 1 is going to be the day, then the WCs need to be held the last week of Dec. 

mspart

[Mike Parrish]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

Right.   That's what I'm saying.   So then why do rankings from before the WCs still have affect after the WCs?   If Jan 1 is going to be the day, then the WCs need to be held the last week of Dec. 

mspart

I think it's for paying out the top cumulative point getters.

And they still want to have the World Cups.
 

[mspart]

3 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

you're still confused. there's no ranking series tournaments after worlds. 

I don't think I am.   If there are no ranking series tourneys after worlds, then how is it that the WCs do not reset the whole ranking?  They should.   That is what I am saying. 

Here, to illustrate.   In Jan - WCs, there are a series of ranking tourneys to set the seeds for the WCs.   You go and win and you will be seeded.   However these rankings are only used to seed the WCs and Olys.   So after the big dance, the rankings and seedings should disappear as they have been clarified by the big dance.  It seems pretty logical to me.

mspart

[Husker_Du]

just check the uww calendar. you're confused. 

[Mike Parrish]

19 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

just check the uww calendar. you're confused. 

https://uww.org/article/belgrade-host-2023-world-championships

[Mike Parrish]

36 minutes ago, mspart said:

I don't think I am.   If there are no ranking series tourneys after worlds, then how is it that the WCs do not reset the whole ranking?  They should.   That is what I am saying. 

Here, to illustrate.   In Jan - WCs, there are a series of ranking tourneys to set the seeds for the WCs.   You go and win and you will be seeded.   However these rankings are only used to seed the WCs and Olys.   So after the big dance, the rankings and seedings should disappear as they have been clarified by the big dance.  It seems pretty logical to me.

mspart

Because they payout awards based on total points for the year.
https://uww.org/article/end-year-freestyle-rankings

 

After Jan 1, the points are reset, except for WC/Oly points, so the points leaders are the World Champions for the next year.

[mspart]

I'll admit to being confused because this makes no logical sense.   If they want to payout, do it before the WCs and reset right after.   That would make more sense to me than what they have.  If you guys are happy with the logic that says someone is ranked higher than the Current World Champion right after the World Championships, I guess it makes sense to you.   This makes no sense to me. 

It should read, "After the World Championships or Olympics are competed, the points are reset, except for WC/Oly points, so the points leaders are the World Champions for the next year.

This would be logical.

mspart

[mspart]

Case in point. 

86kg
1. Boris MAKOEV (SVK) - $5000
2. Azamat DAULETBEKOV (KAZ) - $3000
3. David TAYLOR (USA) - $2000

In the WCs, Makoev lost to Yazdani 10-0.   Dauletbekov lost to Taylor 12-0.   Then Taylor beat Yazdani 7-1. 

So having the year end points be what it is above makes literally no logical sense.   But it is UWW so I can complain all I want and it won't change.   I just find this really bizarre logic.  I understand what y'all have been saying, it just is not an logical situation after the World Champions are established. 

What I do find interesting is how 2 guys, Yaz and Taylor, can be heads and tails above the rest in such a stratospheric sense is just amazing.   And it has been that way for years.   There are other examples but this is one. 

mspart

[Husker_Du]

for fucks sake

they tally all the points from the 4 ranking tourneys and worlds.

then they come up with the rankings/standings you are complaining about now.

then they remove all points except for those earned at worlds.

then they start over.

this isn't fucking hard.

(that's what she said)

[mspart]

55 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

for fucks sake  -  this language is uncalled for.  

they tally all the points from the 4 ranking tourneys and worlds.   Yes, I understand that system.

then they come up with the rankings/standings you are complaining about now.  Yes, to seed for the WCs, I understand that system.

then they remove all points except for those earned at worlds.   No, this is not what they did.   They kept those for current rankings.  That is what this discussion is all about. 

then they start over.  Not after WCs they don't, if I am understanding y'all correctly.  That doesn't happen until Jan 1.  Which is idiotic.

this isn't fucking hard.   Apparently you are now confused, and again, the language is uncalled for. 

(that's what she said)  No comment

Please see above for comments.

I assume this is Willie, so Willie, I don't appreciate your language.  Tone is fine.   I can see you are upset and frustrated by this whole thing insomuch that you have confused yourself.   Let me put it in a bullet format so you and Mike can see what I am saying.

- Jan 1 new year begins with a new set of ranking series of UWW tourneys.   All results from WC

-  A ranking tourney just took place and highest placers get the most points.

- Another ranking tourney just took place and highest placers get the most points.   IF they are the same as the previous winners, then these new points are added to what they earned in the previous tourney. 

- Another ranking tourney just took place and highest placers get the most points.   IF they are the same as the previous winners, then these new points are added to what they earned in the previous tourney. 

- Another ranking tourney just took place and highest placers get the most points.   IF they are the same as the previous winners, then these new points are added to what they earned in the previous tourney. 

- Seeds are set for the World Championships.

-  World Championships are held and highest seeds lost and lower seeds won.   But that doesn't change the seeding which continues to 31 Dec. 

-  Jan 1 it all starts over with world champions #1 seed until ranking series makes the adjustments. 

 

It is the second sentence in the next to last bullet that makes no sense to me.  That is the point it should all start over.  Not on Jan 1. 

Hopefully my point is clear and logical.  For 86KG, DT is the champion but is in third place in ranking series points.  They don't say that, they just say the rankings are out and these guys are where they are. 

mspart

[Mike Parrish]

I think we're in violent agreement here.

Since we're doing lists...

1. I don't know why you think I don't understand. I do.
2. You missed out Continental Championships
3. The point is that BETWEEN WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS AND JANUARY 1, UWW wants to give out cash awards to the top 3 point winners in all 3 disciplines. This is for going to lots of ranking tournaments, etc, WHICH THEY WANT TO ENCOURAGE.
4. If UWW didn't want to give these top 3 points awards and cash, they could just fold it into the World Championships. This is clearly intentional on UWW's part.

You can disagree with the structure, the motivations of UWW, the unfairness of it all (stamps tiny foot), but you can't credibly maintain that we (at least I) don't understand what you're talking about.

P.S. Looooooove the profile picture..

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mike Parrish

[mspart]

Thanks, I worked hard on that pic.   I had to get the lighting just right and contort my face just so and it came out pretty good!!   Ha.

So I saw what was said to be Rankings and they didn't make any sense to me, this close after the WCs.   If they want to encourage participation in the ranking series, then call it that, instead of the year end rankings.  That's what doesn't make sense to me.  

I don't agree with how UWW does this.   I think it is fine to award the top seeds after the ranking series are finished for the year.   That is goodness.  Just don't call them the topped ranked wrestlers after the WCs have just finished.   Call it something different.  

Mike, I appreciate your patience on this.   You brought light that I didn't have.   It doesn't make it better but I sort of understand it now.  I thank you for that. 

I'll bet your foot is not so tiny!

mspart