Any day now we should reach the critical mass of gun ownership by "law-abiding citizens" where we become safe

[BerniePragle]

20 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

This whole thread is completely asinine and so disingenuous it hurts my head.  Between the name calling and the "post your proof"..."no you post your proof"...and my favorite..."that isn't true because they don't list their source".  All of these types of statements are indicative of people not wanting to have an open and honest conversation.  Was just talking about this with my son and parents yesterday...people seriously don't want to have open and honest conversations about guns and mass murder.  We all are fed the opinions about guns and murders by completely and 100% biased information...and no one wants to open their minds to look at things from a different point of view.  First off EVERYON agrees sensless killing is terrible and needs to stop.  But one side isn't ready to have a conversation that the big bad gun isn't the root cause of the problem nor is the big bad AR15 an assault weapon nor a weapon of war (I'd take my dad's semiautomatic .284 rifle over an AR15...can have the same capacity with a much larger bullet and stopping power)...thos on the other side also need to open their minds to discussions about gun laws...not bans, but sensible gun laws.  But EVERYONE needs to have the discussion around mental health and self-accountability/responsibility and being held responsible (aka., parenting!), which to me is what is completely eroding in this society.  

So, name calling and the back and forth of I know you are but what am I solves nothing, so if anyone wants to have an open conversation and is ready to learn others point of view, I'd love to have that conversation.  And here is a start, if someone post something that you don't believe, or agree with, go look up the information yourself, saying the ownness is on the person who posted it to back it up is the first sign you are not at a point to have an open and honest discussion.

Do we have much bigger problems in our society than murder and robbery by guns?  Of course.  The school shootings, mall shootings, etc are merely the "canary in the coal mine" for much bigger problems we have in our country.  I agree that the vast majority of this is due to lax or even non-existent parenting.  Much of that is caused by the parents themselves having had little to no positive role model(s).   That will only worsen.

Another big problem we have in this country is the unbridled pursuit of profit by companies with no regard to the effect their product has on our society.  There are countless examples of this.  With regard to the subject at hand, two pop to mind.  The entertainment industry, feeding our children violent movies and video games is one.  Also without a doubt, the gun and ammo manufacturers is another.  ANYONE who doesn't believe the NRA is spinning numbers to absolve these companies is very naive.

Another problem we have is lack of education in critical thinking.  Very few people anymore have any basic thought process that could help them to figure out who's BSing them regardless of "sources".  (Hint:  99% of the time, follow the money.)  This is only exacerbated by the speed with which mis-information is spread by social media.  I'm 99.999+% sure the YT video linked here over and over as "proof" of something fits perfectly into that.
I'm 70 years old and have a lot of perspective.  Make no mistake...This "I present something as fact and then it's up to you to disprove it or it IS fact" thought process is a product of the internet and can only lead us down the proverbial rabbit hole.  We all need to do better than that.

I have advanced a couple of suggestions on trying to help with the gun murders and robberies but ultimately after the mandatory name calling by both sides they are always met with the Second Ammendment Stonewall and my forehead slap.

The solution to the REAL problems in our country are beyond my pay grade.

[headshuck]

Imagine if Hollywood was as interested in reducing gun violence as increasing diversity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oluwatayoadewole/2020/09/09/academy-awards-change-rules-to-increase-diversity/?sh=47f3ee5d30f3

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, headshuck said:

Talk to Hollywood and game makers about that culture.

Or the politicians.  They wear AR lapels and send Christmas cards asking for blessings of ammo from Jesus.

[headshuck]

What do you think Hollywood would say if the Academy Awards said no films with gun violence is eligible for a nomination for best picture?

Films that are promoted as must-watch for generations.

Or what would the masses say if Scarface was taken off shelves, streaming services, and illegal to own?

[Plasmodium]

How many this years nominees have gun violence in them?  Shocked to see Top Gun is nominated.

We should pick from the foreign films, most of them lack gun violence. 

[Bigbrog]

I am sorry, but blaming the gun or Hollywood and/or corporations/NRA won't fix the problem...IMHO.   While I don't agree 100% with everything @BerniePragle said, he brought up a good point that I think is one of the major causes and that is critical thinking...teaching kids logic and problem solving and thinking for themselves is what we need to bring back.  And where does all that start??  Yep...that's right, at home!!  But also in school and college.  If a kid sees a violent film or plays a violent video game, there has to be strong parenting to discuss with the child what it is and what it isn't that they are watching/playing.  Or schools need to get back to teaching the basics and critical thinking so kids can navigate through things in life.  And just as important, they need discipline and taught that they will be held accountable for their actions.  And let's all not forget the issue with mental health...we need to continue to make it okay to discuss these things.  To be a parent that can identify this in their kids and have the resources to help them through it...and not just shoving pills down their throats.

And once again, as far as the name calling and focusing in on sources and where the information came from, those things I can guarantee will NEVER do anything to stop innocent people from being killed.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Bigbrog

[Plasmodium]

9 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

I am sorry, but blaming the gun or Hollywood and/or corporations/NRA won't fix the problem...IMHO.   While I don't agree 100% with everything @BerniePragle said, he brought up a good point that I think is one of the major causes and that is critical thinking...teaching kids logic and problem solving and thinking for themselves is what we need to bring back.  And where does all that start??  Yep...that's right, at home!!  But also in school and college.  If a kid sees a violent film or plays a violent video game, there has to be strong parenting to discuss with the child what it is and what it isn't that they are watching/playing.  Or schools need to get back to teaching the basics and critical thinking so kids can navigate through things in life.  And just as important, they need discipline and taught that they will be held accountable for their actions.  And let's all not forget the issue with mental health...we need to continue to make it okay to discuss these things.  To be a parent that can identify this in their kids and have the resources to help them through it...and not just shoving pills down their throats.

And once again, as far as the name calling and focusing in on sources and where the information came from, those things I can guarantee will NEVER do anything to stop innocent people from being killed.

Equivalence.

[Mike Parrish]

I have yet to see a peer reviewed study that shows strong correlation between video games and real world violence. 
 

The GOP trots this weirdness out every few years. 
 

Anyone remember the hullabaloo in the 70s around Dungeons and Dragons? “It makes them Satan worshipping baby eaters!”

 

It’s lazy thinking that isn’t backed by evidence. 

[headshuck]

There’s a real world Grand Theft Auto playing out in every city of America.

[Mike Parrish]

Just now, headshuck said:

There’s a real world Grand Theft Auto playing out in every city of America.

Lol, no

[Mike Parrish]

Since there seems to be a strong desire from some for anecdotal stories. 
 

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/14-year-girl-shot-head-neighbor-after-playing/story?id=99165059

[Plasmodium]

31 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said:

Since there seems to be a strong desire from some for anecdotal stories. 
 

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/14-year-girl-shot-head-neighbor-after-playing/story?id=99165059

That is so sad.  Hope she makes a full recovery.

[Plasmodium]

51 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said:

I have yet to see a peer reviewed study that shows strong correlation between video games and real world violence. 
 

The GOP trots this weirdness out every few years. 
 

Anyone remember the hullabaloo in the 70s around Dungeons and Dragons? “It makes them Satan worshipping baby eaters!”

 

It’s lazy thinking that isn’t backed by evidence. 

No, but my mom 86'd out the Ouija board!

[Bigbrog]

21 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

I have yet to see a peer reviewed study that shows strong correlation between video games and real world violence. 
 

The GOP trots this weirdness out every few years. 
 

Anyone remember the hullabaloo in the 70s around Dungeons and Dragons? “It makes them Satan worshipping baby eaters!”

 

It’s lazy thinking that isn’t backed by evidence. 

WOW...finally agree with you on something Mikey...except for the second sentence unless you add "Dems" to it.  That isn't a just a GOP talking point...I hear it a lot from both sides.

[Mike Parrish]

More dumb ideas from senator bag-o-hair. 
 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marsha-blackburn-kayleigh-mcenaney-armed-grandparents_n_645b603fe4b094269bb0d9bd

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, Mike Parrish said:

More dumb ideas from senator bag-o-hair. 
 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marsha-blackburn-kayleigh-mcenaney-armed-grandparents_n_645b603fe4b094269bb0d9bd

As the thread title says, just a few more guns to critical mass!!

[El Luchador]

On 5/10/2023 at 7:23 AM, Mike Parrish said:

More dumb ideas from senator bag-o-hair. 
 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marsha-blackburn-kayleigh-mcenaney-armed-grandparents_n_645b603fe4b094269bb0d9bd

You know they do this in Israel? 

[Mike Parrish]

2 hours ago, El Luchador said:

You know they do this in Israel? 

I don’t care. 
 

[El Luchador]

9 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

I don’t care. 
 

Oh so you just wanted to share your opinion, but not discuss it. 

[Plasmodium]

Israel is a war zone. Who are the belligerents in TN?

[El Luchador]

2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Israel is a war zone. Who are the belligerents in TN?

What difference does it make?  We've already dismissed thier solution because it doesn't fit our narrative. Why would we follow the example the world's foremost experts on security and anti terrorism when we can smugly dismiss it as stupid based on our own bias? 

[Plasmodium]

Just now, El Luchador said:

What difference does it make?  We've already dismissed thier solution because it doesn't fit our narrative. Why would we follow the example the world's foremost experts on security and anti terrorism when we can smugly dismiss it as stupid based on our own bias? 

Because our country and security situation is nothing at all like theirs.  Thoughts and prayers it never morphs into that.   Australia is a better model.  Let's do that instead.

[El Luchador]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Because our country and security situation is nothing at all like theirs.  Thoughts and prayers it never morphs into that.   Australia is a better model.  Let's do that instead.

So you do admit you want to take guns away. Switzerland has a lower murder rate, I propose their model. 

[Mike Parrish]

40 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

So you do admit you want to take guns away. Switzerland has a lower murder rate, I propose their model. 

So does Japan. 

[Plasmodium]

35 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

So you do admit you want to take guns away. Switzerland has a lower murder rate, I propose their model. 

It is legal to own guns in Australia.  Mandatory military conscription in Switzerland is an integral part of gun ownership there.  Is that what you want?  Are you a veteran?