Gable Vs Saduleav

[poorwrestler]

This is a point that we disagree on. I think Zare and Geno could both hand Steveson a loss. Gable looked great at the US Open, but he is not knows for being consistent, and he will be facing a long list of good opponents. He could win it all, but I wouldn't put it in such strong terms as you have done here. I mean he beat Geno with two clutch takedowns in a handful of seconds, a match that could have gone either way. He has also been away from wrestling for a year, though you couldn't tell that from the US Open. There's no doubt that the World Championships are a large step up from the US Open. 

In what way is he not known for being consistent? Has he even taken a loss since his true freshman year at NCAA’s against Cassar? I guess I could see the argument that he’s looked a little gassed on his way to tech’ing some guys in folkstyle.

He’s been away from wrestling competitions for a year, but he never stopped training or practicing. He’s been ready.


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[Threadkilla]

2 minutes ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

This is a point that we disagree on. I think Zare and Geno could both hand Steveson a loss. Gable looked great at the US Open, but he is not knows for being consistent, and he will be facing a long list of good opponents. He could win it all, but I wouldn't put it in such strong terms as you have done here. I mean he beat Geno with two clutch takedowns in a handful of seconds, a match that could have gone either way. He has also been away from wrestling for a year, though you couldn't tell that from the US Open. There's no doubt that the World Championships are a large step up from the US Open. 

I don't think he loses to Zare and I think he if he gets on the gas like he did in the last 15 seconds against Geno he's going to be tough to beat.    Agkul is the reigning World Champ and reversed losses to Zare and Geno.   I wouldn't count him out either.

[1032004]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:43 PM, Pa in Taiwan said:

125kg = 275 pounds

97kg = 213 pounds

Gable is a full 125 kg. Sadulaev is by far the most accomplished and successful active wrestler. He could not compete with another great wrestler so much heavier. Please review the YouTube videos of Snyder going in the room with Akgul from Turkey. Snyder is a great wrestler. He was ragdolled.

Let's see if Gable Steveson can get by Zare. Let's see if he can beat Geno again. 

These fantasy matches will never happen, and they shouldn't. 

 

Is Steveson really a “full 125kg”?  I thought he was ~250?  And I’d bet Sadulaev is cutting from 230ish, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was only like 15 lbs difference in their walk around weight.

[lu1979]

17 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Is Steveson really a “full 125kg”?  I thought he was ~250?  And I’d bet Sadulaev is cutting from 230ish, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was only like 15 lbs difference in their walk around weight.

I doubt Sadulaev walks around much more than 220 unless he has gotten really fat.  I expect when he is training hard and in great shape his natuural weight is 97 kg without cutting.  Gable is probably mid 250s so I would guess there is a 40 lb. difference.  Sadulaev is the best I have seen but that amount of weight against a great wrestler is a lot.  I think Gable would be to much for him.

[nhs67]

Do none of you follow the Tank on Twitter or Instagram?  He is THICCC (three C's there, guys) and he doesn't look fat.

If he was 97 KG wrestling 97 KG before then he is probably a good 8-10 KG over that right now.

Steveson weighed in at just over 118 KG (~260lbs) in his OTT finals against Gwiazdowski two years ago.  He looks a little more lean than he did then, but bigger arms, shoulders, and legs.  If I had to guess I would say in the 255lbs range still.

[TylerDurden]

It's kinda wild that a guy like Parris is very likely to never make an Olympic or World team in his prime because Gable is a terrible matchup for him. 

I think he's the second-best 125 the US has, would be in contention for medals at both the Olympics and Worlds and he's not close to Gable, so we may never know. 

I'm not sure years of FS-only training will do any good either. I guess we'll see how long Parris wants to lose to Gable or how long Gable wants to compete in FS.

 

[lu1979]

On 5/13/2023 at 7:11 PM, Pa in Taiwan said:

Zare is among an elite few at heavyweight on the senior men's circuit. He is only 22 years old, so I expect him to win a lot of gold medals in the future. A match with Steveson would be excellent. It would pit two of the greatest young heavyweights against each other. Zare seems to have a gas tank. It's time to forget the Junior World's fluke against Paris and focus on the Zare of today. I mean there aren't many casting doubt towards Gable Steveson's abilities due to his 2019 loss to Cassar. 

 

 

I agree with you that Zare is a great young heavyweight and could rack up a lot of World level medals if he gets the chance. However I think there is good chance he gets overtaken by an even younger Iranian prodigy Vala Masoumi (19 I think) - Not only is he huge and athletic but he is already competitive with some of the best in the world.  He had the Mongolian WSM beat hands down in the Asian semis before allowing an inside trip with a few seconds left that cost him the match. I think this kid overtakes Zare by 2024.  We will see.

You are also right that it isn't reasonable to consider Mason on par with Zare considering everything Zare has accomplished on the senior level since the 2019 loss. They are both different wrestlers today and Mason will have to prove himself on the mat.  Hopefully he will be attending many open tournaments and get a shot at him. 

I am very much looking forward to seeing what Gable can do against the field - I think he may dominate more completely than he did at the Olympics.

 

[olddirty]

On 5/13/2023 at 8:50 PM, poorwrestler said:

In what way is he not known for being consistent? Has he even taken a loss since his true freshman year at NCAA’s against Cassar? I guess I could see the argument that he’s looked a little gassed on his way to tech’ing some guys in folkstyle.

He’s been away from wrestling competitions for a year, but he never stopped training or practicing. He’s been ready.


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This made me chuckle

[bnwtwg]

19 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

I think he's the second-best 125 the US has, would be in contention for medals at both the Olympics and Worlds and he's not close to Gable, so we may never know. 

Gwiz is 3-1 against Parris including handily going 2-0 at 2021 WTT. Unless you mean even though he isn't the second-best and only that Parris would produce the second-best results on the international scene which I guess I could see your overarching point? But not really since Gwiz is still a world bronze match level of gatekeeper (i.e. you will have to beat him in repechage or 3rd place match) and Parris has yet to get past him.

[nhs67]

5 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Gwiz is 3-1 against Parris including handily going 2-0 at 2021 WTT. Unless you mean even though he isn't the second-best and only that Parris would produce the second-best results on the international scene which I guess I could see your overarching point? But not really since Gwiz is still a world bronze match level of gatekeeper (i.e. you will have to beat him in repechage or 3rd place match) and Parris has yet to get past him.

Parris was injured, severely here.  He then didn't get the needed surgery and it effected his next entire wrestling season.  This last season what we saw from him was a healthy Parris.  I expect him, providing he doesn't let the lace man get paid, to control that match with Gwiaz.

[bnwtwg]

4 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Parris was injured, severely here.  He then didn't get the needed surgery and it effected his next entire wrestling season.  This last season what we saw from him was a healthy Parris.  I expect him, providing he doesn't let the lace man get paid, to control that match with Gwiaz.

We find out this weekend. Gwiz is still the prohibitive favorite although Father Time remains undefeated. Hopefully Parris doesn't suffer another herniated disc and withdraws because I'm sure that will go over well.

+1 for the Kawhi reference

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Gwiz is 3-1 against Parris including handily going 2-0 at 2021 WTT. Unless you mean even though he isn't the second-best and only that Parris would produce the second-best results on the international scene which I guess I could see your overarching point? But not really since Gwiz is still a world bronze match level of gatekeeper (i.e. you will have to beat him in repechage or 3rd place match) and Parris has yet to get past him.

No. I mean I think Parris is the second-best 125 the US currently has. I understand what their H2H looks like and what the results were two and three years ago, but there is some context in those matches that informs my opinion. 

I will never denigrate a world medal and Gwiz has a couple of bronzes, but that isn't swaying my thoughts on this. 

I'm also not saying Gwiz isn't a damn good wrestler. He is. I just think he's the third-best 125kg guy in the US.

The good news is we likely get to see where they stand this weekend. If they meet, I expect a good match from two of the top three 125kg in the US. 

 

 

[bnwtwg]

19 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

No. I mean I think Parris is the second-best 125 the US currently has. I understand what their H2H looks like and what the results were two and three years ago, but there is some context in those matches that informs my opinion. 

I will never denigrate a world medal and Gwiz has a couple of bronzes, but that isn't swaying my thoughts on this. 

I'm also not saying Gwiz isn't a damn good wrestler. He is. I just think he's the third-best 125kg guy in the US.

The good news is we likely get to see where they stand this weekend. If they meet, I expect a good match from two of the top three 125kg in the US. 

I'm with you (was my latter point). You feel that Parris is like pre 2022 Yianni [2021 worlds doesn't count don't @ me] - better for international comp but unable to break through domestically. Until Gwiz loses to Parris we will have to agree to disagree, but I'm definitely nodding my head silently.

[headshuck]

Taylor was the always the better wrestler between he and Dake despite the 0-11 head2head.

[bnwtwg]

8 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Taylor was the always the better wrestler between he and Dake despite the 0-11 head2head.

The conversation is about how styles make matchups. Parris (offensive) and Gwiz (defensive) have very different styles with typically very different results on the international scene.

 

And besides, everyone knows Taylor was never better than 3rd best domestically at any given weight until others vacated (JB>Dake>Taylor, Cox>Dake>Taylor, Cyler>Bubba>Taylor)

[nhs67]

12 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

The conversation is about how styles make matchups. Parris (offensive) and Gwiz (defensive) have very different styles with typically very different results on the international scene.

 

And besides, everyone knows Taylor was never better than 3rd best domestically at any given weight until others vacated (JB>Dake>Taylor, Cox>Dake>Taylor, Cyler>Bubba>Taylor)

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[bnwtwg]

Here's a fun one to ponder and the same I wondered in April 2021 at OTT. Why doesn't Cox bump up to 125 to give it a run? Does he do it this year after the presumed Snyder losses? How do live goes between he and Parris look in the room?

[nhs67]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

Here's a fun one to ponder and the same I wondered in April 2021 at OTT. Why doesn't Cox bump up to 125 to give it a run? Does he do it this year after the presumed Snyder losses? How do live goes between he and Parris look in the room?

I ASKED THE SAME THING SO MANY TIMES IN THAT 125 PAGE THREAD!

[nhs67]

Seriously, I don't care if you're 93.1 KG, Cox.  If Macchiavello can go up and contend with Bradley in a 1-0 or 1-1 loss... whatever it was... then you bet your ass that Cox can go up and contend there, too.

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Seriously, I don't care if you're 93.1 KG, Cox.  If Macchiavello can go up and contend with Bradley in a 1-0 or 1-1 loss... whatever it was... then you bet your ass that Cox can go up and contend there, too.

I stand corrected...

It was 2-1.

https://www.flowrestling.org/collections/tag/125-kg/video?playing=6834264

[bnwtwg]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Seriously, I don't care if you're 93.1 KG, Cox.  If Macchiavello can go up and contend with Bradley in a 1-0 or 1-1 loss... whatever it was... then you bet your ass that Cox can go up and contend there, too.

Everyone has a 1-0 or 1-1 sumo match with Bradley though

[nhs67]

Just now, bnwtwg said:

Everyone has a 1-0 or 1-1 sumo match with Bradley though

That wasn't true at the RTC cup.

Bradley over Dhesi 5-2
Bradley over Wood 6-0
Bradley over Macchiavello 2-1

[bnwtwg]

3 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

That wasn't true at the RTC cup.

Bradley over Dhesi 5-2
Bradley over Wood 6-0
Bradley over Macchiavello 2-1

The Bradley match I revere the most: Wyatt Hendrickson v Dom Bradley 2023 US Open. Bradley scored his usual 1 pushout.

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/10272040-2023-us-open-wrestling-championships/videos?playing=10922894&limit=60

 

I do wonder if Gwiz would big brother the crap out of Hendrickson or if it would be close? He will need to upset Parris this weekend to find out (nearly teched him at the Open before giving up 68 straight points).