High school weights

[Formally140]

The NFHS is changing the weight classes above 138 next year. And some states are going with 12/13 weights for their seasons. 
 

Interested in peoples thoughts on

1. 12-13 weight classes instead of 14

 

2. the new weights for the 2023-2024 season

out of 14. 

106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285. 

3. should forfeits be worth more than 6 team points(I like the point scored/earned Bryant and Schalles have suggested. But I don’t see them happening)

 

interested in y’all’s thoughts 

[Fudge Tunnel]

Many states are instituting those weights this year, including here in CO.  

[BobDole]

The weight classes aren't the issue, it's coaches that aren't recruiting and RETAINING athletes.

[Formally140]

25 minutes ago, Fudge Tunnel said:

Many states are instituting those weights this year, including here in CO.  

Whoops  

[Formally140]

39 minutes ago, BobDole said:

The weight classes aren't the issue, it's coaches that aren't recruiting and RETAINING athletes.

I don’t disagree 

[BobDole]

I guess I'll also add my thoughts on the weight classes.

I'm and old fogie and really they don't matter as long as we have a wide range of weights. Anyone that complains about the weight classes is doing so based on their immediate experiences and most likely how their team is shaping up today and the future. There are years coaching where I wanted the old 103 start weight and years I wish the start weight was 110. There are years where I would have loved having 6 weights 170 on up and years where I wish there were 2! In my area we might have trouble filling 182lbs, but in others they may have trouble filling 106lbs. 

The bottom line is the weight classes won't do much to affect the forfeit issue that is there. Reducing the number of weights just gives coaches an artificial bump in saying their reduced forfeits and they'll keep doing the same things with recruiting and retention. The NFHS and NWCA need to focus more on educating coaches and working on retention of athletes more than the weight classes. If we do a better job of retaining athletes we will see a reduction in forfeits more than changing the weights will ever do.

[Formally140]

21 minutes ago, BobDole said:

I guess I'll also add my thoughts on the weight classes.

I'm and old fogie and really they don't matter as long as we have a wide range of weights. Anyone that complains about the weight classes is doing so based on their immediate experiences and most likely how their team is shaping up today and the future. There are years coaching where I wanted the old 103 start weight and years I wish the start weight was 110. There are years where I would have loved having 6 weights 170 on up and years where I wish there were 2! In my area we might have trouble filling 182lbs, but in others they may have trouble filling 106lbs. 

The bottom line is the weight classes won't do much to affect the forfeit issue that is there. Reducing the number of weights just gives coaches an artificial bump in saying their reduced forfeits and they'll keep doing the same things with recruiting and retention. The NFHS and NWCA need to focus more on educating coaches and working on retention of athletes more than the weight classes. If we do a better job of retaining athletes we will see a reduction in forfeits more than changing the weights will ever do.

I agree about 12/13 weight classes masking the problem. And I feel that 110 vs 100 in my soul already this season lol. 
 

[BobDole]

39 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

I agree about 12/13 weight classes masking the problem. And I feel that 110 vs 100 in my soul already this season lol. 
 

The thing is the forfeits are at each end of the spectrum, either the small or big guys. If you want to drastically reduce forfeits you would need to make the starting weight 110-120lbs. That's something not very many people would agree to.

[Formally140]

10 minutes ago, BobDole said:

The thing is the forfeits are at each end of the spectrum, either the small or big guys. If you want to drastically reduce forfeits you would need to make the starting weight 110-120lbs. That's something not very many people would agree to.

I agree. I think people really don’t want to address the fact a lot of coaches think building an effective program means making them run till they puke. I think the numbers issue would be still a thing but nowhere near as bad if coaches stopped trying to be what they “think” Gable was.

 

 

[nick]

My issue is the jump between 175 and 190, thats a huge gap (granted only two pounds more compared from 182 to 195) but I'm off the mindset of more upper weight classes to get more athletes out. For my high school, we end up with a ton of football players all between 200 and 285 and only two weight classes for them. 

We wrestle in both Indiana and Kentucky during the season, so it's gonna be fun flipping between the two different weight class systems this year. Last year it wasn't too bad, but it sucks for the 182lber since now its either cut to 175 or gain to 190 but be ready the next weekend for 182.

[Husker_Du]

the option to go with one of three weight categories is a trainwreck.

you're going to have states with those three and a few states with their own version. 

then, what does USAW do? Then what does, say S32 do. Then you have international / UWW weights.

it creates a ton of issues the most important of which is a universal product and the least of which is a pain in the ass for rankings. 

[Formally140]

6 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

the option to go with one of three weight categories is a trainwreck.

you're going to have states with those three and a few states with their own version. 

then, what does USAW do? Then what does, say S32 do. Then you have international / UWW weights.

it creates a ton of issues the most important of which is a universal product and the least of which is a pain in the ass for rankings. 

I’m very sure Mr. Dole hit it on the head. The decision to let states “choose” their number of weights was to mask forfeits. 
 

ironically, lol I think the relaxation on petty rules like hair and beards long term do more than going with 12/13 weights.

 

The only good argument I see for 13 weights is dual meets. To help with tie breakers but that’s a band aid 

[Formally140]

I apologize for pointing out a difficultly that could arise if the rule is implemented. I think things like this would arise irregardless of which sport it is
 

Never mind that everyone says they’re okay with or against something.. until it’s their kid, or their situation. 
 

Since people are being deliberately obtuse or making false equivalencies. I’ll let it rest.

 

Besides, I think that the possibility that the NCAA is blown up, and it all becomes club and/or freestyle is a distinct possibility anyway.

 

[Mike Parrish]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:28 AM, BobDole said:

The NFHS and NWCA need to focus more on educating coaches and working on retention of athletes more than the weight classes. If we do a better job of retaining athletes we will see a reduction in forfeits more than changing the weights will ever do.

Wrestling's greatest failure is poor retention rates.
It affects every aspect of our sport from dual forfeits to the inability to build long term support within a community.

 

[Formally140]

^oops. Meant for other thread my apologies 

[BobDole]

On 11/14/2022 at 7:36 AM, Formally140 said:

ironically, lol I think the relaxation on petty rules like hair and beards long term do more than going with 12/13 weights.

 

And the uniform options help also, especially for the fringe kids.

You are correct though the NFHS makes more rules that don't affect actually wrestling than wrestling rules. Most of their changes equate to the referee doing more crap pre-match than during the match.

[Formally140]

Just now, BobDole said:

And the uniform options help also, especially for the fringe kids.

You are correct though the NFHS makes more rules that don't affect actually wrestling than wrestling rules. Most of their changes equate to the referee doing more crap pre-match than during the match.

The head of the committee is actively trying to change that thankfully 

[SetonHallPirate]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:28 PM, BobDole said:

I guess I'll also add my thoughts on the weight classes.

I'm and old fogie and really they don't matter as long as we have a wide range of weights. Anyone that complains about the weight classes is doing so based on their immediate experiences and most likely how their team is shaping up today and the future. There are years coaching where I wanted the old 103 start weight and years I wish the start weight was 110. There are years where I would have loved having 6 weights 170 on up and years where I wish there were 2! In my area we might have trouble filling 182lbs, but in others they may have trouble filling 106lbs. 

The bottom line is the weight classes won't do much to affect the forfeit issue that is there. Reducing the number of weights just gives coaches an artificial bump in saying their reduced forfeits and they'll keep doing the same things with recruiting and retention. The NFHS and NWCA need to focus more on educating coaches and working on retention of athletes more than the weight classes. If we do a better job of retaining athletes we will see a reduction in forfeits more than changing the weights will ever do.

The NWCA really tries their best, but at the same time, you can lead a horse to water, but...unless you're going to make every single high school coach in the country sit in on a lecture from Mike Moyer about how damaging the forfeit is to wrestling, you aren't going to change very much.

[BobDole]

56 minutes ago, SetonHallPirate said:

The NWCA really tries their best, but at the same time, you can lead a horse to water, but...unless you're going to make every single high school coach in the country sit in on a lecture from Mike Moyer about how damaging the forfeit is to wrestling, you aren't going to change very much.

I'm not sure that would help much!

[Formally140]

9 hours ago, SetonHallPirate said:

The NWCA really tries their best, but at the same time, you can lead a horse to water, but...unless you're going to make every single high school coach in the country sit in on a lecture from Mike Moyer about how damaging the forfeit is to wrestling, you aren't going to change very much.

I think one thing that would help is having some of the more rough and tumble coaches at some of the seminars.

It can get kind of frustrating for coaches I know when they want help or advice with dealing with certain things.. but most of the clinic coaches have no idea how to deal with the situations some coaches deal with. Guys will get frustrated 

[SetonHallPirate]

8 hours ago, BobDole said:

I'm not sure that would help much!

I wholeheartedly disagree...I'm fairly certain that it wouldn't help one iota.

[Mike P]

Sorry to resurrect this year old thread, but I’m wondering if feelings have changed about the new weight classes (good for the sport? Bad? No effect?)

I’m pretty new to wrestling, so I don’t understand some of what has been discussed here previously. It sounds like the general consensus is that the weights were changed to decrease the number of forfeits (or mask them? Not sure what that means)

All I know is that my son went from wrestling comfortably at 220 last year and having a lot of success as a freshman to this year facing opponents 50, 60 or even 70 pounds heavier. I can’t wrap my brain around the rationale for having that heavyweight class so big. Why not split it in half?

Thanks for putting up with my lack of experience, and apologies if I’m asking questions with obvious answers.

[nick]

I'm not a fan of the lack of a weight class between 215 and 285 - there should be something like 245 so we can keep football players that fall in the in-between range... The jump from 175 to 190 still feels a little strange

However at least this year Indiana has adopted the new weight classes, last year they did not but Kentucky did so was a major headache with meets every week in each state.

 

[gimpeltf]

4 hours ago, nick said:

I'm not a fan of the lack of a weight class between 215 and 285 - there should be something like 245 so we can keep football players that fall in the in-between range... The jump from 175 to 190 still feels a little strange

However at least this year Indiana has adopted the new weight classes, last year they did not but Kentucky did so was a major headache with meets every week in each state.

They said that in the 90s when they added 215/220. Didn't help and made 2 weaker weight classes.