Seriously, Michigan?

[Plasmodium]

5 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Exactly.  An idiot who shoots 1000 times for 60 kills is the guy want to have my gun fight with. 

You take assault rifles to concerts?

[Plasmodium]

9 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Ok so they illegally band guns for 10 years.  BTW there was never a time you couldn't get 1. Same with the mag bans that have been shot down. 

 

Nothing was illegal.  Had it stayed in place, schmucks like the shooters in Vegas, Sandy Hook and Uvalde wouldn't have had them.

[El Luchador]

6 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

You take assault rifles to concerts?

The point should be clear. The bump stock all you leftys hate are actually detrimental to aim accurate gun fire, and I don't need an assault rifle to defend against 1, but it would be preferable. 

[El Luchador]

4 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Nothing was illegal.  Had it stayed in place, schmucks like the shooters in Vegas, Sandy Hook and Uvalde wouldn't have had them.

I disagree and recent rulings and majority opinions agree with me. 

[El Luchador]

6 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Nothing was illegal.  Had it stayed in place, schmucks like the shooters in Vegas, Sandy Hook and Uvalde wouldn't have had them.

Also making them illegal would be about as effective as the war on drugs. Guns are not a 1 time use. No guns is in greater use than the AR patern rifle. They ain't going anywhere even if outlawed. 

[Plasmodium]

Just now, El Luchador said:

Also making them illegal would be about as effective as the war on drugs. Guns are not a 1 time use. No guns is in greater use than the AR patern rifle. They ain't going anywhere even if outlawed. 

In 20 years? 50 years?  Beg to differ.

[El Luchador]

5 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

In 20 years? 50 years?  Beg to differ.

I have guns from the 1800, they don't turn to dust and even a minimally skilled machinist could make a modern 1. Not to mention the fact that they will always be made somewhere and would be easily to smuggle than drugs. There is no law that has eliminated anything. 

[El Luchador]

 

[scourge165]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:45 PM, Mike Parrish said:

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Isn't it strange how EVERYONE has a personal anecdote for just about every topic that always coincides with their own viewpoints?

I HAVEN'T been the victim of a violent crime this year...and neither has anyone I know. PROOF!

 

(Also curious how two events in two parts of the Country would provide "evidence" the Police would not "do anything" about the notorious gas theieves following this family from California to the Ozarks, but I AM curious how they were supposed to? Put out an amber alert for the missing gas?

They say if you don't find gasoline in the first 48 hours...sadly, it's probably been trafficked and resold and is hundreds of miles away. What's left of it anyone. 

[scourge165]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:53 AM, Plasmodium said:

I assume you have a weapon or weapon class that militaries can have and civilians cannot.  At a minimum, nuclear weapons.  My weapon class is different than yours, I think.

When did emotions stop driving societies?   Why should it?  Freedom is emotion.  Free will is just pursuit of emotions  People don't want to live in fear.  Living life in a cage, with three armed guards, one way in, one way out.  It is awful.  One of the worst things about this epidemic is that we are becoming anesthetized and the shootings are normalized.  Columbine shocked the entire planet.  Leaders and people from around the world sent thoughts, prayers and condolences.  For weeks.   Now, we are not even surprised much less shocked.  The rest of the world laughs and points out the one thing that distinguishes us.

 

When they kiiled 20 kids and absolutely nothing changed...that's when I knew this was a lost issue.

 

I figured...MAYBE after Vegas I was wrong, but...same end result effectively. Special interests going to bat for "bump stocks," using proxies to do it. 

It's almost funny.

 

What's also funny is how "crime is up," because a guy had a story about someone laying under his truck to steal gas, but you point to these mass shootings(there have been a string of about 6 big ones in a ~3-4 day period) and that's statistically irrelevant if you add up ALL the days kids go to school and then you add all the schools...

Jesus Christ...people think it's normal and healthy to have kids doing active shooter drills. Like that in and of itself won't have an impact on kids. 

Reading through this thread is just depressing and it explains how Joe Biden and the Ds have won the Oval and then basically won in the Mid Terms. 

 

Lying means NOTHING anymore. If it did...George Santos would NOT be a member of Congress(nor would Trump be worshiped with a literal Gold Statue people rub at Cpac, but that's another issue). MTG, Boebert, Jordan...

 

So if lying to get elected to congress means nothing, why are people gonna care about lying or giving..."alternative facts," on message boards?

[scourge165]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:32 PM, Bigbrog said:

So question...do you think we should just get rid of the 2nd amendment, and it no longer holds water in today's society because the government has way more advanced weapons then we do?  This isn't a trick question.  And at the same time, one of your reason is because someone who wants to do bad things to innocent people won't have access to a LEGAL gun so there won't be any more school shootings, or shootings of innocent people period?

I think you and I, and probably 99% of the people in the US would agree, someone who wants to do bad things to innocent people should be stopped from doing so.  Am I safe to assume your solution to it is to ban guns?  My supposed solution is WAY more complicated than that...but can comfortably say we should NOT ban guns.  Rabbit hole warning....whether people want to believe it or not, our free society was built around it's private citizens being able to arm and defend themselves both on a personal level and against governmental tyranny.  My point is you can't pick and choose what works and what doesn't work (constitution) when it ALL worked together in order to make us the best country and most free country in the world.  

I see you didn't address the emotional thing when making decisions and opinions??  And by the way...you are lying to yourself to even begin to assume you know how I feel when there is a school shooting or what I will feel if there is another one.  That is an absolutely silly and ridiculous comment to make.  I am desensitized to NO killing of an innocent person!

Bottom line...you don't like guns, then don't own one...period.  It is my right and will always be my right to own one...period.  And it is your right to make your decisions and opinions based purely on emotion and it is my right to use both emotion, logic, FACTS and DATA to make mine.

You can though. You LITERALLY can and we were literally given the power to do EXACTLY that. 

Scotus voted 5-4...so if the GOP hadn't kinda stolen SCOTUS, it could have easily gone the other way and LITERALLY interpreted the 2nd. "In order to maintain a WELL REGULATED MILITIA,"....

But  yes, you ABSOLUTELY can pick and choose. See how black people are no longer slaves and no longer 3/5th of a human being? That's because we pick and choose. See how we all get to vote for President instead of 68 people like in the first couple elections? That's because we get to pick and choose. 

 

We've got to pick and choose. That was kinda the ENTIRE point of the Constitution. 

 

Oh, and we're not the "most free" Country. Those pesky "socialist" Countries in Scandinavia are the most free...plus Canada, England, among others. We're the 23rd most free;

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index/2022

 

If you didn't have private prisons and Judges who get kickbacks for sending kids to prison, we may be higher, but I think having the most people in prison in the world lowers our rankings in the "most free country" category. 

[scourge165]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:46 PM, El Luchador said:

As all leftists think, you guys are the only ones with intellect.  That's why you say smart things like speech is violence and think censorship is necessary. Dismissing an argument based on it having been said.  Okay you're the smart one. What a great way to never have to address inconvenient facts.

Ahh...I knew this conversation would involve discussions of strawman....I just assumed they'd be strawman gun purchases.

Instead they're strawman arguments.

"You conservatives say Jan 6th was just a "glorified tour," therefore, I'm going to assign that absurd argument to YOU personally and use that as a way to undermine your argument!

[scourge165]

On 1/31/2023 at 8:38 AM, Nailbender said:

You don't have any idea what rifles are made for. To you, that's what they are for.

    A car going 90 is not for transportation, it's a death machine that is endangering my life on the highway. People deal with that every day. It deals out more death than rifles by a significant margin but you don't care. Why not?

 

I have to get some work done. Have a good day.

This is a point they make on the right...and I think they're actually solving all the issues. 

 

1-All Cars have to be registered and insured and you must take a class to be able to use it.

Apply this with Guns. Ideally, you would have a National registry. Each gun that's manufactured has a ballistics test done. Then when there's a murder, you find the owner.

2-This would be part of 1, but you need to ban private sales, gun show loopholes. About 5 minutes away from where I live, a man beat the hell out of his wife...she was leaving him. He spent the weekend in jail. The Police confiscated his guns. He went online, purchased a gun, then drove to his ex-wifes place of work and shot her and 6 other people.

Now...maybe he steals a gun, or he goes in there stabbing(not nearly as effective for the "if people really want to kill people, they'll find a way crowd")

But this man went to jail on a Friday, was bailed out on a Monday Morning at ~8AM, went home...and by Noon, he'd purchased the gun and killed 7 while injuring several others. 

MAYBE banning that private sale would have made it a bit more difficult. 

 

3-You don't solve the problem overnight, but these are two good places to start. 

Oh, and on the right, you don't fund groups to appeal the bump-stock ban that even Trump and Republicans thought was appropriate. I just read luchador argue that guns are not for killing people. A AR-15 with an extended mag and a bump stock is 100% for killing people. It's purely a weapon of mass murder, nothing more. There is literally no reason for any citizen to have it. 

[scourge165]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:25 AM, Plasmodium said:

 

Yeah, Jimmy thought "sexual assault" by the team Doc was a made up term as well...

In fact, he also said the 10 year old girl who was raped and forced to leave the state in order to get an abortion was a hoax.

What the hell happened to this guy? I knew him. I was a kid and he knew my Father/Uncle, but...he was a kinda, rationale, reasonable guy. Now it's just performative nonsense. 

I guess a Presidential Run when they get done with Trump finally is in order?

[scourge165]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:28 PM, Bigbrog said:

If YOU can't clearly articulate your stance on something, how is it you feel you have a good argument??  You have shown that YOU are unable to describe, show a picture of, explain in plain English, what it is YOU consider an "assault weapon/weapon of war", and how it differs from what YOU think are the "common" rifles used for deer hunting.  We will continue to wait....

In the mean time, I think we all can rest on common ground that we all would want nothing more than these senseless shootings to stop.  I can also guarantee, that if I thought for 1 second that banning any sort of gun would stop these from happening I would support it and vote for it.  There is ZERO evidence, logic, data, and/or facts that support banning any gun will stop the shootings from happening.

Australia-

DEFINITELY not "ZERO evidence, logic, data and/or facts that support banning any gun will stop the shootings from happening."

Of course as bump stocks are still legal in this country...meaning, you CAN effectively get the same gun the US Military uses is pretty telling. They're not gonna do anything. 

It took a mass shooting in which nearly 500 people were shot and ~60 were killed before we even tried to ban them...but of course you had the Gun Lobby funding an appeal claiming that was unconstitutional...and they were successful. 

 

But here's your evidence that...it absolutely does work.

And yet, I don't think anyone's suggesting going THIS far. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-can-australias-reaction-to-a-mass-shooting-teach-us-about-guns-and-gun-control/

-Registration, just like drivers Ed, Gun Education. Hunter's safety, but you could simply add some self defense components. 

-No extended magazines. You can go hunting for deer with 10 rounds(or you really shouldn't be hunting).

-No private sales as I previously suggested.

-Ballistics tests on all guns. Do you think people who sell guns may be a BIT more selective about who they sell guns to.

 

I'm not advocating for an Australian like ban, but you can't say there's your long winded way of saying there's no evidence that banning guns will lead to a reduction in mass shooting events. 

I own 36 guns. I've accumulated them from Grandparents, my Father...I even got my CC. The class was laughable. I also learned how to shoot when I was young. But the suggestion that NOBODY knows what an assault weapon is or that if a gun can kill someone, then it throws the whole, "a gun ban will work," argument out of the window...just like the silly list of guns that have been used in War, literally going back to the gun Custer used. 

 

-Oh, and hollow point are not really necessary in handguns. I carry it with me when I go up to my Cabin because there are wolves and Cougars and things like that...but mainly because they were passed down when my Grandpa died. 

People have fetishized guns and it's strange. 

 

 

None of these things will ever happen because of my prior statement, and because of the NRA which has gotten so extreme and out of control, Bush Sr wrote a letter condemning them in a public way of cancelling his membership. 

[scourge165]

On 1/31/2023 at 3:25 PM, Nailbender said:

"Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door." - Joe Biden

This is an example of intellectual dishonesty at it's finest.

This was Biden's comments on the Shotgun...which he'd later repeat.

He never said just blindly shoot through a door and you...frankly have to be an idiot to come away with that;

 

 

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, El Luchador said:

Exactly.  An idiot who shoots 1000 times for 60 kills is the guy want to have my gun fight with. 

And he shot nearly 500 people you moron. 

A women died...fairly recently(well after the shooting) after being paralyzed and as a direct result. 

You say some stupid shit, but when you just throw out all the people who WEREN'T actually killed...just shot like it's not as "impressive," that takes it to a whole other level. 

 

Also, you ever see someone shot? You ever seen brain matter on your clothes and them gurgling as they die...not really there? THAT also messes with an AVERAGE-HEALTHY-WELL ADJUSTED human being as well. 

 

So it may only be 60 "kills" for you, that may be the only metric by which you're using, but it was a pretty significant event that caused a whole helluva lot of trauma. 

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, El Luchador said:

The point should be clear. The bump stock all you leftys hate are actually detrimental to aim accurate gun fire, and I don't need an assault rifle to defend against 1, but it would be preferable. 

Ok, so you're saying that the right wingers LIKE the Bump stocks? Or at least don't hate them? Otherwise, no need to qualify it by saying "you lefties" hate. 

2nd, and how much aim to you need when you're shooting into a crowd of 15000 from an elevated position? 

The point should be clear...this dude got off ~300 rounds in 31 seconds before ANYONE knew what was happening. ~1100 in total and he killed 60 and shot ~500 people. 

 

I'm SO glad it'd be preferable for YOU to defend against one with a assault rifle(which...I thought didn't mean anything, but it sounds like you know exactly what it means).

How would you have defended against this? Were you the one with your scope...at a concert who spots the shooter before anyone else?

24 ain't real and you're not Jack Bauer buddy. You're not picking out the window he's firing from, picking up your long rifle(or in your case, I guess just an assault rifle) and shooting Paddock.

You have no idea how people ACTUALLY react when they're put in that situation...and it's seldom well. I've seen a cop, a instructor who had ~20 years on the job get attacked during a traffic stop and he got off 8 rounds from 10 feet away as the guy jumped back in the car...and not only didn't hit the guy, he didn't hit the car once.

There are always people like you who think they'd be the hero and if they were just there when there was a mass shooting, they'd be the one to stop it. Not only is that not likely to happen, you're MORE likely to cause collateral damage...in a crowd. 

[jross]

7 hours ago, El Luchador said:

Exactly.  An idiot who shoots 1000 times for 60 kills is the guy want to have my gun fight with. 

He also wounded 400+

[Nailbender]

27 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

This is an example of intellectual dishonesty at it's finest.

This was Biden's comments on the Shotgun...which he'd later repeat.

He never said just blindly shoot through a door and you...frankly have to be an idiot to come away with that;

 

 

Some of the actual stupidity in these posts actually hurts my feelings. Your long winded responses that have very little thought put into them if not so scary, would be funny. I reacted to your first one that way and then couldn't believe it got worse from there.

 

I've learned my lesson with you and shouldn't respond. I'll try and leave the rest of your ignorance for someone else to clean up.

Washington examiner

US News and World Report

Snopes for goodness sakes

 

 

 

  ETA Joe Biden is an idiot and he must be your king. Shooting blindly through a door is some of the worst advice I've ever seen. It's a good way to change self defense into murder. Maybe even the murder of someone you love.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Nailbender

[Plasmodium]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah, Jimmy thought "sexual assault" by the team Doc was a made up term as well...

In fact, he also said the 10 year old girl who was raped and forced to leave the state in order to get an abortion was a hoax.

What the hell happened to this guy? I knew him. I was a kid and he knew my Father/Uncle, but...he was a kinda, rationale, reasonable guy. Now it's just performative nonsense. 

I guess a Presidential Run when they get done with Trump finally is in order?

Fascism happened.  

[jross]

5 hours ago, scourge165 said:

also funny is how "crime is up," because a guy had a story about someone laying under his truck to steal gas,

Yep plus the data shows increased crime in that same city.  And it wasn't just one vehicle crime, but rather vehicle crimes against baseball players on my local men's team, 1 against my buddy in another state, and 1 against my father-in-law within a small period of time.  Believe it or not, 1+1 = 2.
 

Quote

Lying means NOTHING anymore. If it did...George Santos would NOT be a member of Congress(nor would Trump be worshiped with a literal Gold Statue people rub at Cpac, but that's another issue). MTG, Boebert, Jordan...

I don't know a single person in real life that worships Trump or likes his character.  Several prefer his policy opinions such as reducing illegal immigration, made in America (bring business back), pride and optimism in the country, ability to say Merry Christmas, strong economy, holding other countries accountable to contribute to NATO, better trade balance, reduce/stop foreign wars, etc.

Santos is terrible and he fits right in with the other democrats and republicans.  You can fill a page listing lying politicians for each side of the aisle.  Biden remained in office for 50 years while repeatedly busted for lying.

[El Luchador]

6 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Isn't it strange how EVERYONE has a personal anecdote for just about every topic that always coincides with their own viewpoints?

I HAVEN'T been the victim of a violent crime this year...and neither has anyone I know. PROOF!

How about crime stats?  Crime is up and people are very much experiencing it.

Edited February 2, 2023 by El Luchador

[El Luchador]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

This is an example of intellectual dishonesty at it's finest.

This was Biden's comments on the Shotgun...which he'd later repeat.

He never said just blindly shoot through a door and you...frankly have to be an idiot to come away with that;

 

 

You're wrong again

 

V.P. BIDEN: Well, the way in which we measure it is–I think most scholars would say–is that as long as you have a weapon sufficient to be able to provide your self-defense. I did one of these town-hall meetings on the Internet and one guy said, “Well, what happens when the end days come? What happens when there’s the earthquake? I live in California, and I have to protect myself.”

I said, “Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door.” Most people can handle a shotgun a hell of a lot better than they can a semiautomatic weapon in terms of both their aim and in terms of their ability to deter people coming. We can argue whether that’s true or not, but it is no argument that, for example, a shotgun could do the same job of protecting you. Now, granted, you can come back and say, “Well, a machine gun could do a better job of protecting me.” No one’s arguing we should make machine guns legal.

[Plasmodium]

Woke up this morning.  Apparently

, @scourge165has entered the discussion and found it interesting. 

Welcome!