Competition breeds success

[Truzzcat]

I was watching this interview which I highly recommend and David talks about how at points in his career where he made his greatest strides he always had someone at his weight that was pushing him (Kyle, JB, Yazdani). It got me thinking about this crop of guys at 133 and how for one of them to truly emerge above the others as the clear guy what they are going to have to do, but at the same time how much better each of them is going to make the other and I think it could very well create the best American wrestler we have ever seen. 

[Southend]

Agree totally. But today the consensus is to avoid your main competitors.  

[flyingcement]

This is why I don't consider Penn State to be as successful as a team like Oklahoma State in the truest sense.  Hiding to manufacture ideal conditions is the opposite of what wrestling stands for.

[WrestlingRash]

46 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

This is why I don't consider Penn State to be as successful as a team like Oklahoma State in the truest sense.  Hiding to manufacture ideal conditions is the opposite of what wrestling stands for.

Until someone beats PSU at NATIONALS, it doesn't matter how hard you clutch your pearls. 

[flyingcement]

7 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

Until someone beats PSU at NATIONALS, it doesn't matter how hard you clutch your pearls. 

that's if you consider success in such a narrow frame of reference.  Cael used a redshirt for the same reason in his own career.  He didn't want his losses to count.  No one cares about a national champion if the team is chicken shit.  Respect needs to be earned.  so far it hasn't.  

Edited Wednesday at 02:20 AM by flyingcement

[boconnell]

4 hours ago, flyingcement said:

This is why I don't consider Penn State to be as successful as a team like Oklahoma State in the truest sense.  Hiding to manufacture ideal conditions is the opposite of what wrestling stands for.

Isn't the stiffest competition the NCAA tournament?  Isn't winning that tournament the definition of what wrestling stands for?

[WrestlingRash]

4 hours ago, flyingcement said:

that's if you consider success in such a narrow frame of reference.  Cael used a redshirt for the same reason in his own career.  He didn't want his losses to count.  No one cares about a national champion if the team is chicken shit.  Respect needs to be earned.  so far it hasn't.  

Everyone was redshirting as freshman back then, and you pretending to know what was in Cael's mind is perverse. 

 

Last year PSU beat Iowa 32-3, Michigan 38-3, Nebraska 26-12 and Ohio State 36-5. They beat 6th place Stanford 42-0. Their dual strength of schedule is #1 almost every year. So you are butthurt that they haven't scheduled Okie State? Is that what this is all about? You are a weird dude. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:30 AM by WrestlingRash

[Gene Mills Fan]

5 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Everyone was redshirting as freshman back then, and you pretending to know what was in Cael's mind is perverse. 

 

Last year PSU beat Iowa 32-3, Michigan 38-3, Nebraska 26-12 and Ohio State 36-5. They beat 6th place Stanford 42-0. Their dual strength of schedule is #1 almost every year. So you are butthurt that they haven't scheduled Okie State? Is that what this is all about? You are a weird dude. 

Hey now, There's a lot of us butthurt weird dudes around.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Cael's mind is perverse. 

You are a weird dude. 

Says the guy fixated on Bo Bassett's demise for several years now...

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

Hey now, There's a lot of us butthurt weird dudes around.

... prob more than anonymous nerds ... 

[Simpleman424]

7 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Everyone was redshirting as freshman back then, and you pretending to know what was in Cael's mind is perverse. 

 

Last year PSU beat Iowa 32-3, Michigan 38-3, Nebraska 26-12 and Ohio State 36-5. They beat 6th place Stanford 42-0. Their dual strength of schedule is #1 almost every year. So you are butthurt that they haven't scheduled Okie State? Is that what this is all about? You are a weird dude. 

Pretty sure we went through the breakdown of these duals ad nauseam…teams with 3-5 starters injured/out etc. I mean they did win though…just context. 

 

7 hours ago, boconnell said:

Isn't the stiffest competition the NCAA tournament?  Isn't winning that tournament the definition of what wrestling stands for?

It is…but seeding plays a HUGE roll in that. Facing a 32/33 seed out the gate to roll into a 16/17 matchup before you even hit a fringe top 10 seed…I mean not exactly a murders row. By far the most unchallenged group heading into the later rounds. But yea that’s why you play the seed game…

[MNRodent]

14 hours ago, flyingcement said:

that's if you consider success in such a narrow frame of reference.  Cael used a redshirt for the same reason in his own career.  He didn't want his losses to count.  No one cares about a national champion if the team is chicken shit.  Respect needs to be earned.  so far it hasn't.  

There isn't really any indication that Cael would have even made all-american that first season.  I remember him and Joe Heskett were both equally highly regarded true freshman, but I don't recall talk of them starting.  Paul Jenn, the guy that beat him that year at an open, went 2-2 at nationals, getting teched by Eggum (5th place) and majored by Simpson (4th place) in his 2 losses at NCAAs.

[WrestlingRash]

6 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Says the guy fixated on Bo Bassett's demise for several years now...

Pointing out he age cheated and predicting that he isn't as good as advertised is totally reasonable. calm down bub

[OriginalAxon]

6 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

Pretty sure we went through the breakdown of these duals ad nauseam…teams with 3-5 starters injured/out etc. I mean they did win though…just context. 

 

It is…but seeding plays a HUGE roll in that. Facing a 32/33 seed out the gate to roll into a 16/17 matchup before you even hit a fringe top 10 seed…I mean not exactly a murders row. By far the most unchallenged group heading into the later rounds. But yea that’s why you play the seed game…

In which matches would the team score meaningfully change? Ohio State had backups in, but their starters don't take any match they lost.

[Simpleman424]

45 minutes ago, OriginalAxon said:

In which matches would the team score meaningfully change? Ohio State had backups in, but their starters don't take any match they lost.

Yea I’ve never argued that…only that yelling “Scoreboard” is a little misleading take on the matchups. Mostly because people on here have made comments exaggerating the fashion in which they were won and/or ignoring any context to the matchups.

[boconnell]

7 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

It is…but seeding plays a HUGE roll in that. Facing a 32/33 seed out the gate to roll into a 16/17 matchup before you even hit a fringe top 10 seed…I mean not exactly a murders row. By far the most unchallenged group heading into the later rounds. But yea that’s why you play the seed game…

This would be super relevant if they were underperforming their seeds.  Since they aren't, it's completely irrelevant.

It's absolutely reasonable to not like how PSU goes about winning crazy amounts of titles.  It's unreasonable to attempt to dismiss their titles because you don't like how they go about winning their crazy amounts of titles.  

[Simpleman424]

22 minutes ago, boconnell said:

This would be super relevant if they were underperforming their seeds.  Since they aren't, it's completely irrelevant.

It's absolutely reasonable to not like how PSU goes about winning crazy amounts of titles.  It's unreasonable to attempt to dismiss their titles because you don't like how they go about winning their crazy amounts of titles.  

5 PSU wrestlers underperformed their seeds last year…half the roster. Kind of relevant.
I don’t dismiss their titles…I’ve said numerous times that they have been fantastic for the sport as a whole.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

5 PSU wrestlers underperformed their seeds last year…

All 10 underperformed at National Duals ... just say'n.  

[flyingcement]

8 minutes ago, ionel said:

All 10 underperformed at National Duals ... just say'n.  

well - all but Messenbrink

[boconnell]

8 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

5 PSU wrestlers underperformed their seeds last year…half the roster. Kind of relevant.
I don’t dismiss their titles…I’ve said numerous times that they have been fantastic for the sport as a whole.

Good stuff.  I didn't realize they underperformed last year.  Hopefully that becomes a trend.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

15 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Pointing out he age cheated and predicting that he isn't as good as advertised is totally reasonable. calm down bub

Hey bub! 

As good as advertised? 

Clown...

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

17 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Pointing out he age cheated and predicting that he isn't as good as advertised is totally reasonable. calm down bub

Please react to the current situation?  Age cheating? lol