Telford out Yianni D in at Iowa?

[BAC]

Warner is a hilariously bad hire, but to offer a counterpoint… what if that’s all they can get?

If they brought in someone outside the Iowa bubble, that would be a tacit concession that they don’t know everything — and a tacit obligation to give that new assistant some free reign to instruct as he sees fit. But can anyone see that happen?

I don’t see Tom/Terry admitting that there is anything they don’t know, or that anything in their system needs to change. I don’t see them going one lick of free rein to any assistant, and I see them pushing back REAL fast if that assistant did anything outside the Tom/Terry “system” or gave advice outside their viewpoint. 

Even if they could loosen their grip on the reins long enough to let someone new in, I don’t see a talented, creative assistant who actually has something to offer putting up with such a stifling work environment. 

It seems to me that the universe of potential hires is limited to Iowa grads who know how the Brands like to coach and are comfortable working within those strict confines. 

The result is we get these almost comically uninspired hires from hiring pool of maybe 4-5 guys. But hey, at least they didn’t hire Nelson.

[Southend]

10 hours ago, MPhillips said:

Do the ex wrestlers of Iowa or the opponents for that matter, complain about how terrible TnT are?

 

Heck no, this is just a made up theory to try to scare recruits off by Iowa haters. Think it’s becoming obvious. 

[wrestle87]

Man, they went from telford to Warner? 

Does Gable have any sway in that room anymore? Seems like TnT ought to be considering contingency planning simply based on their ages at this point for the wellbeing of the program.

And yikes, VT getting james green in the same breath that iowa hires warner says a LOT about how the coaching world feels about that room.

[Gus]

2 hours ago, BAC said:

Warner is a hilariously bad hire, but to offer a counterpoint… what if that’s all they can get?

If they brought in someone outside the Iowa bubble, that would be a tacit concession that they don’t know everything — and a tacit obligation to give that new assistant some free reign to instruct as he sees fit. But can anyone see that happen?

I don’t see Tom/Terry admitting that there is anything they don’t know, or that anything in their system needs to change. I don’t see them going one lick of free rein to any assistant, and I see them pushing back REAL fast if that assistant did anything outside the Tom/Terry “system” or gave advice outside their viewpoint. 

Even if they could loosen their grip on the reins long enough to let someone new in, I don’t see a talented, creative assistant who actually has something to offer putting up with such a stifling work environment. 

It seems to me that the universe of potential hires is limited to Iowa grads who know how the Brands like to coach and are comfortable working within those strict confines. 

The result is we get these almost comically uninspired hires from hiring pool of maybe 4-5 guys. But hey, at least they didn’t hire Nelson.

I understand that Iowa could use some outside influence but this is the 4th coaching spot and now a guy that always showed up in the March, is a 4x AA and NCAA runner up, is a hilariously bad hire??

[jajensen09]

0 offense. Nothing going to change 

[Doublehalf]

21 hours ago, MPhillips said:

Do the ex wrestlers of Iowa or the opponents for that matter, complain about how terrible TnT are?

 

Most of the recruited wrestlers and athletes that choose to wrestle there probably have the same old school mindset or grew up in a similar environment and may not have had the variety of exposure to other coaching styles to even realize there is a different way. 
 

I wouldn't expect guys recruited that are cut from the same cloth as them to complain about them/the program. I also think that many wrestlers come from the mindset of complaining adds little to no value so why bother. 
 

Im not saying Tom and Terry don't care about their athletes, at least when it comes to their favorites... They just lack the EQ needed at this point in time to be successful at recruiting the right guys. Spencer Lee is really an outlier at this point.

Edited April 13 by Doublehalf

[TNwrestling]

38 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

Im not saying Tom and Terry don't care about their athletes, at least when it comes to their favorites... They just lack the EQ needed at this point in time to be successful at recruiting the right guys. Spencer Lee is really an outlier at this point.

Two of their three "favorites" coach at different programs and wouldn't ever go back.

 

I don't think they care about anything but TnT

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I love how everyone equates wrestling success to coaching ability...

[Dogbone]

23 hours ago, Spladle said:

Willie and Basch made a great point in the last few weeks. 
 

What up and coming assistant or world teamer would risk joining Iowa staff without any contingencies? Say, if Tom was gone in a year or two and said assistant had to start fresh looking for another gig. They’d maybe be interested if there was a clause saying they could be head coach. 

This seems like a "spin zone" to me.   Sure if you want to be a life long assistant I can see playing it safe and avoiding Iowa.   But what is the real risk if you are an up and coming assistance or world team member, really? 

If Iowa gets better you are going to get a lot of the credit which could lead to HC opportunities.    If things go south, everyone is still going to blame Brands and you would get a lot of exposure in the process, likely get another assistant job.  

I get not wanting to uproot your family, but if you are an ambitious assistant, you might have to move around a bit before you are going to get a big opportunity.  Might as well bet on yourself.  

[Mr. PeanutButter]

3 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

This seems like a "spin zone" to me.   Sure if you want to be a life long assistant I can see playing it safe and avoiding Iowa.   But what is the real risk if you are an up and coming assistance or world team member, really? 

If Iowa gets better you are going to get a lot of the credit which could lead to HC opportunities.    If things go south, everyone is still going to blame Brands and you would get a lot of exposure in the process, likely get another assistant job.  

I get not wanting to uproot your family, but if you are an ambitious assistant, you might have to move around a bit before you are going to get a big opportunity.  Might as well bet on yourself.  

yeah I thought that argument was pretty weak

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

This seems like a "spin zone" to me.   Sure if you want to be a life long assistant I can see playing it safe and avoiding Iowa.   But what is the real risk if you are an up and coming assistance or world team member, really? 

If Iowa gets better you are going to get a lot of the credit which could lead to HC opportunities.    If things go south, everyone is still going to blame Brands and you would get a lot of exposure in the process, likely get another assistant job.  

I get not wanting to uproot your family, but if you are an ambitious assistant, you might have to move around a bit before you are going to get a big opportunity.  Might as well bet on yourself.  

Look at how much guys like Hayden Hidlay and Vincenzo Joseph have moved around since their careers have been done.

Edited April 13 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[1032004]

So is it true that Telford didn’t leave on his own?  Hiring Warner to me feels like maybe he did, I would think letting Telford go would mean you might actually want to go in a somewhat different direction, but apparently they didn’t.

[BAC]

11 hours ago, Gus said:

I understand that Iowa could use some outside influence but this is the 4th coaching spot and now a guy that always showed up in the March, is a 4x AA and NCAA runner up, is a hilariously bad hire??

Look I don’t want to speak ill of the guy. I am not a fan of his wrestling style and I question how much innovation he brings to the table, but it may be that he is an effective and motivating communicator and you are right — his credentials are good enough to land a coaching spot somewhere. But when the other spots are held by Tom, Terry and Ryan, you have to ask yourself:  does Warner have anything new to add to the mix that isn’t already covered by the first three?

Warner may well be a perfectly fine hire… by anyone but Iowa, to whom he adds the least.

The most I can see him adding at Iowa is a lot of “yeah do went Tom just said” to convince the team that the Brands way really is the right way to go. Which, as I said, may be all that Tom really wants (which is part of the problem).

Edited April 13 by BAC

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, BAC said:

Look I don’t want to speak ill of the guy. I am not a fan of his wrestling style and I question how much innovation he brings to the table, but it may be that he is an effective and motivating communicator and you are right — his credentials are good enough to land a coaching spot somewhere. But when the other spots are held by Tom, Terry and Ryan, you have to ask yourself:  does Warner have anything new to add to the mix that isn’t already covered by the first three?

Warner may well be a perfectly fine hire… by anyone but Iowa, to whom he adds the least.

The most I can see him adding at Iowa is a lot of “yeah do went Tom just said” to convince the team that the Brands way really is the right way to go. Which, as I said, may be all that Tom really wants (which is part of the problem).

My understanding is that he worked a lot with Buchanan and continues to do so.  That seems to be working well.

[LoserJucoMan]

16 hours ago, Gus said:

I understand that Iowa could use some outside influence but this is the 4th coaching spot and now a guy that always showed up in the March, is a 4x AA and NCAA runner up, is a hilariously bad hire??

If a team is having an issue with getting taken down due to the danger rule is the solution to hire Dean Heil just because he's a two time Natty champ?

[LoserJucoMan]

4 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

My understanding is that he worked a lot with Buchanan and continues to do so.  That seems to be working well.

Wasn't he also a three time AA that placed third before transferring to Iowa? what did they really need to teach him?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 hours ago, LoserJucoMan said:

Wasn't he also a three time AA that placed third before transferring to Iowa? what did they really need to teach him?

As if a "three time All-American" is a finished product! He improved a lot his senior year.

He recently won an international tournament and smashed Yazdani.  Did you see that coming when he was at Wyoming?

[WrestlingRasta]

22 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I love how everyone equates wrestling success to coaching ability...

Correct, not sure where they get this mindset.  It's not like there are any Dan Gables, John Smiths, Cael Sandersons, Brands himself (even if the sport has now passed him by), or David Taylors out there to formulate this idea. 

NCAA and World Cup champ Rob Koll, NCAA Champ Mark Manning, Big ten champ and NCAA finalist Tom Ryan etc etc etc.   It really doesn't calculate at all. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

10 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Correct, not sure where they get this mindset.  It's not like there are any Dan Gables, John Smiths, Cael Sandersons, Brands himself (even if the sport has now passed him by), or David Taylors out there to formulate this idea. 

NCAA and World Cup champ Rob Koll, NCAA Champ Mark Manning, Big ten champ and NCAA finalist Tom Ryan etc etc etc.   It really doesn't calculate at all. 

I feel the sarcasm.  It's almost like: you don't get on a staff if you are not a stud because (usually) young assistant coaches are there to be workout partners, so it is impossible to get your foot in the door if you have a great wrestling mind but aren't a killer.

Imagine if this happened in the NFL or MLB or any number of other sports.  Wrestling might be the only sport to have this model. Dumb.

[WrestlingRasta]

18 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I feel the sarcasm.  It's almost like: you don't get on a staff if you are not a stud because (usually) young assistant coaches are there to be workout partners, so it is impossible to get your foot in the door if you have a great wrestling mind but aren't a killer.

Imagine if this happened in the NFL or MLB or any number of other sports.  Wrestling might be the only sport to have this model. Dumb.

I don't think its dumb, I think it's the nature of the beast.  I talk about this often.......in most sports, being one of the great ones as an athlete more rarely translates to being one of the great ones in the coaching ranks.  Wrestling is very different in that aspect, it (obviously) translates a lot. I think a big reason for that is because in those other sports, athletic ability plays a bigger role in success than it does in wrestling.  In wrestling success its about process, mindset, attention to detail, etc etc.   The proof is in the pudding. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

26 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I don't think its dumb, I think it's the nature of the beast.  I talk about this often.......in most sports, being one of the great ones as an athlete more rarely translates to being one of the great ones in the coaching ranks.  Wrestling is very different in that aspect, it (obviously) translates a lot. I think a big reason for that is because in those other sports, athletic ability plays a bigger role in success than it does in wrestling.  In wrestling success its about process, mindset, attention to detail, etc etc.   The proof is in the pudding. 

Maybe, but you rarely get a chance to coach at a D1 level unless you are there to be a workout partner.  This prevents a lot of great minds from getting involved.

You're right, no athleticism is involved in wrestling.  

[WrestlingRasta]

23 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Maybe, but you rarely get a chance to coach at a D1 level unless you are there to be a workout partner.  This prevents a lot of great minds from getting involved.

You're right, no athleticism is involved in wrestling.  

What am I right about?   I don’t recall writing: “no athleticism is involved in wrestling”.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

16 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

What am I right about?   I don’t recall writing: “no athleticism is involved in wrestling”.  

Correct, not sure where you get this mindset

[WrestlingRasta]

Well….okay then.  

[Mr. PeanutButter]

23 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Correct, not sure where you get this mindset

He said athleticism doesn't play quite the big role in wrestling as it does in other sports, not that it isn't important at all. I don't think that's an outlandish take. I have heard one very prominent Iowa wrestler refer to some of his coaches and competitors as "not athletic" even