scourge165

Oh, my bad. I didn't know that. I still think PSU has 2-3 guys who should transfer. Duke is gonna come in there and...IMO, he's going to dog walk some kids next year while taking a RS(or maybe not, maybe Kasak takes a RS). Sealey looked...like a guy who needs to try and go '65. If he's cutting to '57, he should lift and try to go up. He just didn't look good. Kid is a former World Champ in the NLWC/PSU room. The OSU kid was tough and underrated and an AA contender, but Sealey had nothing. Not attempts, just trying to not be scored on. I've also heard Cunningham is really coming on. You have Ryder, Asher Cunningham and Henkel coming in next year.

Eh...Brands certainly seemed to think so. That's the one where DeSanto yelled out twice on his way to his back? Sure, that'd be quitting.

Does this maybe suggest that Facundo is done at PSU? That he'll be transferring this year? They said 7 of the top 9 157 at in the B1G...pretty sure Facundo would be in that group as well.

Yeah, no, it was the "quits" part I thought was kinda stupid. I'm looking for a guy who has given up half way through the match. And just looking for clarification.

I'm sorry, what now? Who was it that quit in the middle for..."whatever reason?"

I...I can't even see him making it at this point. I think he's peaked and the best we're looking at is maybe he can find his way into that 9th place match at the B1Gs. How many qualifiers from the B1G at '25 this year? I just don't see how you possibly come back from a match in which you got two first period TDs(nearly a 3rd) and then get cradled and pinned in the 2nd period. That'll likely haunt him the rest of his Collegiate career!

I thought it just looked like every last 30 second sprint when you're down in a match and trying to create some action. Head, hands and hips... You're going to get hit in the head, but this didn't seem any different than most other matches I've seen.

People are using Chris Phillips lack of a Collegiate career now to paint his HS success in a different light. He Wrestled the toughest schedules you can Wrestle. He went through the Ironman and the Beast all at 171 or above. And again, I hate the "why is this Wrestler WORSE" than him argument. Phillips accomplishments stand on their own. No need to knock anyone else down. I don't know if it's just people who forgot what Phillips was doing or they're going back and reading his accomplishments off a sheet missing the context from the time. There are some sites that can be great references to remind us of how incredible a FRESHMEN dominating the Nation at 171(or the best in the Nation) is. Phillips was the best Wrestler on that HS team...

This is why I think Kolat is #1. What he was doing was nearly unprecedented. With regard to Chris Phillips, he wasn't just "hype," and if he panned out in College or not is immaterial. This is the best HS Wrestler. I don't know if there are "thousands of guys with multiple state titles and just a handful of high school losses," but Chris Phillips had ONE HS loss...to Ed Ruth at the Iron Man and he won 4 State Titles in Ohio at 171. He made the decision to not Wrestle in College. That doesn't change how dominant he was in College anymore than Marstellar's lack of a NC changes his Collegiate credentials. I know Phillips won one Fargo Title as an 8th grader and you could look to what Ryan said about him in the room at OSU. He didn't "fail" he just..didn't want to do it. But doing what he did in Ohio at 171...I disagree. How many guys have 6 Junior National Titles? I know Garrett Lowney did. He also went to the Olympics at 19 and took a Bronze and had a...successful career given his limited size and how great HWT was at the time.

You're using what Kyle Snyder did AFTER a year of College...to compare the best HIGH SCHOOL Wrestlers of all-time. That's a ridiculous argument. Guys graduate at different ages. You take a guy, you have him wrestle for a year at the Olympic Training Center, THEN have him Wrestle at the NCAA's for a year and in the Ohio State room...they're going to improve more than Wrestling the schedule Cary Kolat did...where he got little to no competition. And it's just NOT high school. No matter how much you'd like it to be or the fact that he could possibly still have been in High School, he wasn't. Tyler Kasak could still be in High School. He is not. He also sat out a year and trained with the NLWC I believe and David Taylor's club and then Wrestled a Varsity season. I THINK he's 19 years old. Gable Stevenson...does his Freshmen season count for his HS career? You don't just magically develop due the date on a calendar, you do it based on the competition you face. As for Schultz, I think a HS Career is...a HS career, not one year. Jake Deitchler appear on this list? How about Jimmy Carr? No, because it's a cumulative list(by virtually everyone). Then keep him off yours. He's on mine. I think having a 1X State Champ who had a DNP, 4, 4 is "wildly overrating" but he had a great year and if YOU want to put him on for one INCREDIBLE year, go for it.

No, I don't think so. I think it's well placed. He's deserving. With regard to Snyder, I'm as big a fan as any, but...are we now adding a True Freshmen's accomplishments to their HS credentials? If not, the World Championship Snyder won at 19 is irrelevant. After a year of college wrestling, it is irrelevant. It wasn't in HS. AS for Phillips, the kid lost one match to Ed Ruth that he later avenged. I don't know why the Freshmen year was the peak, but you're going to get a variety of opinions. How about Dan Gable, Chance Masteller, PJ Duke(isn't he on pace to become the first 6X NY State Champ or was it just the first 7th grader?). Shultz probably had the best year ever, but he was a 3X place winner who went 4/4/1. So you can pretty easily point to flaws in any argument...which is my least favorite way of doing this given all of their credentials(they should be HS credentials though).

I don't believe Phillips wrestled much Freestyle of Greco...but I think he won a Cadet Title heading into HS. So as an 8th grader...he got a stop sign. Not sure he got anymore(or tried to get any more). I know he had a pretty epic run as a Freshmen in the Ironman beating Zac Thomusseit, and Brian Roddy who was the #1 ranked '71 in the Country...and it wasn't that close. He didn't major Roddy, but I remember he had several near TDs on the edge and controlled the match. I wanna say it was a 9-3 type match.

Really? Again with pointing out Joe Williams wasn't in that bracket? AGAIN...the POINT was that it used to be a tournament that Sr level Wrestlers would participate in and Williams one anecdotal example. It has to do with the level of competition of the Midlands back in the 80s/90s vs today. That's it. "Often," also doesn't literally mean EVERY SINGLE time...it means, "in many instances." The fact that there was a 7th place finisher and 2 NCAA Finalists is...in and of itself fairly compelling. But nowhere did I say, "the Midlands were tougher the year and at the weight Cary Kolat took 3rd as a Soph in HS than the NCAA Tournaments."

I never said...nor inferred they were in the same weight or same year, I was pointing out the Midlands were a tougher tournament back then and cited one anecdotal example of a guy who wrestled in and won the tournament several more times after his Collegiate career ended. I went to a school who was in my grade and born 2 years and 6 months before me. He was my same grade. A lot of things go into that. As long as you're still winning age-level World Medals, you're fine. I do feel like in College you start to get to the point of diminishing returns year 6 or when you're 24/25. You're not as fresh, you've got beaten up more. You have a bigger target. This could be a lot of the Iowa 'runs their guys into the ground,' basis. Because they've had some guys transfer and as happens, you inevitably get beat up. Lot of pressure on this kid. A kid who's REALLY really good, but who is arguably 3rd in his class(Again, Forrest and Ross...who'd be my #1 if he choose Wrestling).

I was wondering when Fried would get mentioned. I think Kolat was a better HS Wrestler, but...Fried was a freak as well. I think these things are relative. Bassett did worst at some of these Sr Level tournaments than his own HS teammate(in fairness...Forrest is pretty damn good as well). But it's more common now to see a HS kid beat an absolute hammer and high AA/NC. Mirasola beat Dean and in his first year of College, he lost 10-1 to Josh Barr. Blaze has some pretty damn impressive notches on his belt. When Kolat and Fried were doing it, it was a helluva lot more rare. Probably because the best of the best in this sport are...getting better each year and the year 'round Wrestling and high level coaching is great for them, but I think it's important. Chris Phillips was right there with Kyle Snyder as the best SINCE Kolat/Fried to me...though not it's just too hard to measure. They're all really good. Only one correction(not to you, from an earlier post), Phillips wasn't a Freshman losing to a Sr Ruth. I'm about 90% sure he lost in the Ironman as a Soph to the Jr Ruth and then came back and avenged him the following year. I also don't lost the comments kinda inferring Phillips was a disappointment. I mean, sure, I was disappointed I didn't get to see him Wrestle, but far as I know, that was just a personal choice and he didn't Wrestle because he was burned out. I thought he paid his own way and went back and worked on the farm or something, but not like he got into trouble and threw it away. I'm fine with that. In fact, I have more respect for that. If you're burned out/sick of Wrestling, whatever it is, you don't love the sport, don't take up a scholarship.

Kolat took 3rd at Midlands back when it was often tougher than the NCAAs. When you'd get guys like Joe Williams Wrestling there for years after or...whoever, Sr level wrestlers just entering to Wrestle.

Cardenas is a former Cornell Wrestler. I'm told they're smart. He's also a Sr and he's wrestled 3 NCAA Tournaments already. If the expectation is for you to do your best coaching yelling to your Wrestlers while Wrestling...that's pretty unrealistic.

Yes...because Starocci isn't boring, he's just dominant. I don't think Starocci is that much more talented for a 184 than I think Bartlett is for a 141...I think it's in the mentality and Starocci is supremely confident(he's extremely arrogant as well, but it serves him well). Bartlett should be crushing dudes and he's content to win a duel by a point.

Yup...I'd only amend what I said to say, obviously, when I say "overmatched," it's just because he's a natural '84(if not '74). But he's been competitive with AA-caliber athletes save for the #1 ranked '97 in the Country.

How good but totally over-matched he is at '97... Let him go '84 for the NEXT 4 years; he has a chance to compete next year at '84. I think he could maybe AA this year, but not win it. Glad they made the decision to RS him.

Yeah, NOT in response to you. In response to this comment; Using Brooks, Nickal, J'Den Cox...and then Hidlay who didn't win it and Snyder. Hardly shocking that multiple time Champs are going to have the most success their Sr years or have a higher bonus rate(and I also pointed out Starocci was doing the same thing...as is O'Toole and Haines and I'd guess MOST returning champs). It's sure as hell proving my point more than they do better when going down...

How am I being dramatic? Literally your words; So you NEVER said him going to 197 was reasonable...but you said it "wasn't unrealistic?" And that's ME being dramatic? Ok...and I corrected that already...so not sure why you're back on that. So...do we need to do this again? Well, that's just Math. 285-197 What's the difference in weight there? 88 pounds. Is that "about" 90 pounds? But sure, then Kerkvliet, Stevenson, they're not full-sized HWTs. Yeah, I didn't really dismiss it in text, but I AM dismissing the idea that Parris losing in HS to Cassioppi in HS was ever going to make him go down...which you both said "wasn't unrealistic," and then said I was being dramatic. I guess if someone says going down a weight is "realistic" then I think it's reasonable...but I'm just using your words here. He was LITERALLY using the 2023 Champs! I don't kno how much more black and white that one can possibly be. He showed a list of the 2023 National Champs...and Haines took what place in 2023? So I'm not cherry picking anything, I was directly responding to HIS examples. So when he uses O'Connor as the 157LB Champ from 2023...why are you possibly complaining that I'm doing "the Haines bit," and "correcting" me that he was a champ? I know he was a Champ, but he was very specifically using the year he WASN'T a champ. Dude...you brought up a High School match between Cassiopi and Parris as a reason why it "wasn't unreasonable" for Parris to go down to 197, then complained I was being "dramatic," claiming you never said it was "reasonable" for him to Wrestle '97 and finally when I referred to Haines as "the runner up" when he used the 2023 Champs, claimed I was "cherry picking" information. What's the definable term for that?

No...'I poop my pants-haha-whatever,' huh? I always thought they were Brothers. Ok then. I supposed they'd have been mentioned earlier. I generally think it's weird that Brothers(close in age) go to different schools(maybe weird isn't the right word, but I expect them to go to the same school). I guess the recent exception being Marcus Blaze...with all due respect to Purdue, I did not think he'd end up in Indiana. Speaking of which...how good is Keegan Bassett? I know he's a Freshmen, but he's done some pretty impressive things, hasn't he?

Well...it's not in the title, but it's in the first paragraph; So keeping with the theme, I'd throw the Pritzlaff's out there. Donny...stud, 2X, 4X AA Glenn-1NC, 2X AA. I mean, if it's just guys who Wrestled at different schools at some point, it's the Schultz brothers.

Right...which is the argument for closing the gap between '97 and HWT. And the post I was responding to was from '23 when O'Connor won it and Haines was the runner-up...that's why I said "From this year." Because O'Connor was the guy listed as the champ. I also don't care what Parris Wrestled in HS. Could he have gone down? I guess...but he was a pretty healthy sized HWT. Perhaps not 6'5, I see him listed at 6'2 or 6'3, I may have conflated him and Coon a bit, but the point remains, he was a normal size HWT. I don't know what him and Cassioppi have to do with it, but...alright. He got "ragdolled" by Cassioppi. Him cutting down to '97 I imagine would have been miserable. You think 4-5 years at '97 was just as reasonable a weight for him as HWT? This is all a LOT less important to me than the larger argument that going up weight classes is better and guys have more success doing that rather than cutting and going down a weight class.