SocraTease

Hmm. You are right at least about the lineage of influence and teaching. As some folks here likely know, Plato was a great wrestler. See article below. Aside: I think RBY has the word "wrestle" written in Greek on his arm. Look for it tonight. Plato’s Body, and Mine By Bill Hayes IF only I had read Plato. That’s what I thought when I saw my MRI: 28 images, impossible to deny, of a torn rotator cuff muscle — a consequence of years of weightlifting. And that’s just my shoulder. May I present C4, C5 and C6 (my herniated discs), my plantar fasciitis, my patellar tendinitis — residual damage done to a body, now 51, in the name of exercise, in pursuit of being buff. Plato could have warned me. In “The Republic,” he advises “temperance” in physical training, likening it to learning music and poetry. Keep it “simple and flexible,” as in all things, don’t overdo. Follow this course, and you will remain “independent of medicine in all but extreme cases.” Plato was an athlete, particularly skilled as a wrestler. His given name was Aristocles, after his grandfather, but the coach under whom he trained is said to have called him “Plato” — from the Greek for broad, platon, on account of his broad-shouldered frame. It stuck. So good a wrestler was Plato that he reportedly competed at the Isthmian Games (comparable to the Olympics), and continued wrestling into adulthood. Ensconced at the academy, he spoke strongly on behalf of the virtues of physical education. He felt that one should balance physical training with “cultivating the mind,” exercising “the intellect in study.” The goal “is to bring the two elements into tune with one another by adjusting the tension of each to the right pitch.” Equal parts thought and sweat, so to speak. As one can see most obviously in gifted athletes and performers, the body itself can be a source of knowledge — coordination, grace, agility, stamina, skill — both intuitive and learned. Indeed, there are rare few whom I would call Einsteins of the body — geniuses at inventing, expressing and employing movement. Is that not what the dancer and choreographer Mark Morris is? Or the tennis great Roger Federer? The contemporary philosopher (and self-admitted sports nut) Colin McGinn points out that physical education should be a lifelong pursuit. “We like our minds to be knowledgeable, well-stocked with information; we should also want our bodies to be similarly endowed,” he writes in his charming book “Sport.” “The erudite body is a good body to have.” Of course there is the risk of taking things too far. Again, from “The Republic”: “Have you noticed how a lifelong devotion to physical exercise, to the exclusion of anything else, produces a certain type of mind? Just as neglect of it produces another?” Plato writes, recounting the words of Socrates. “Excessive emphasis on athletics produces an excessively uncivilized type, while a purely literary training leaves men indecently soft.” Even if I’d been sitting at Plato’s feet as a young man, I would not have listened. Back then, looking good and getting bigger mattered most. I suppose it was all very Darwinian — puffing myself up and trying to make myself attractive in order to attract a mate. But I was not explicitly conscious of such aims. I liked working out in itself, the pure satisfaction of using full force against a resistance. I sought what Pavlov — a lover of biking, rowing and swimming — so beautifully called “muscular gladness.” Alas, today I’m paying a price in frayed muscle tendons. But in my aches and pains I am choosing to see wisdom gained. If the human body is the best picture of the human soul, as Wittgenstein said, then mine is pumped. But I have pressed pause on the StairMaster and stepped away from the heavy weights for a time. Now it is Plato’s body to which I aspire. Bill Hayes is the author of “The Anatomist,” who is at work on a book on the history of exercise.

I sense that you might know less than nothing about Socrates, his pupil,Plato (who was the one to essentially make him famous through his written dialogues), or philosophy. Socrates at least knew (or, more likely, claimed ironically) that he knew nothing. Many hated him because he revealed through discussion, dialogue, and debate that the politicians, priests, and poets of his polis (city state) didn't know what they were talking about, and they took revenge on a man who encouraged others to think for themselves. He also didn't fear death and was willing to die for the truth. The Socratic dialogue and dialectic has been justifiably of great value to western forms of learning form universities to law schools. Socrates survives through his genius. Those who hated him and helped to put him to death do not. PS: Socrates influenced positively lots of important historical figures like Martin Luther King. He also generally stood for the values of free speech and thought. His politics can be admittedly questioned, but that's a whole other matter. It's good to see a few others interested in standing up for freedom of expression in a time when that is threatened in so many different ways: cancel culture, book bans, etc. I was simply reporting a relevant news story during the "down time" between sessions in the tournament. If that feels threatening to anyone, well, just skip the thread and enjoy the action later.

I posted it hesitantly, but if it is perhaps going to happen, fans might want to know about it and be prepared, regardless of one's political or other views

Mr. Trump made the declaration on his site, Truth Social, at 7:26 a.m. on Saturday in a post that ended with, “THE FAR & AWAY LEADING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WILL BE ARRESTED ON TUESDAY OF NEXT WEEK. PROTEST, TAKE OUR NATION BACK!”

It's being reported on a lot of the local (Tulsa) media. For example: https://tulsaworld.com/sports/college/osu/bill-haisten-trump-the-ncaa-wrestling-curveball-no-one-expected/article_38265bea-c50b-11ed-9974-439214c83829.html

Well, I will try to keep this as non-controversial as I can and stick to facts: 1. He is not the current President 2. By any reasonable account, he is an extremely divisive and controversial figure. 3. It can easily distract from the mat action. 4. It can pose security risks. 5. He is widely known for making things about himself. 6. By his own account (as well as journalistic reports), he is about to to be arrested (indicted) next Tuesday, and he has called publicly for protests. Do you want to see protests (or worse) break out in the arena when wrestlers (their families, friends, fans) have spent much of their entire life preparing for this evening and moment?

Apparently, a(n) (in)famous celebrity will be in the house tonight. Wrestling doesn't need this distraction. https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/trump-to-attend-ncaa-wrestling-tournament-as-guest-of-mullin/article_30f9a914-c45a-11ed-8dc1-d36da706da16.html

Van Ness really found his game and confidence at NCAAs. Peaked at the right time. Finishes 3rd after a 12th seeding. Won 5 matches (including high quality victories over Parko, Paniero Johnson, and Henson). He gave Yianni all he could handle for 6 minutes and was leading him into the last minute. He will likely be ranked first or second at the start of next season (not sure of everyone who returns at this point). Beau Bartlett also had a great tournament. Finished 3rd after being seeded 6th. 5-1 in the tourney.

The University of Iowa released the following statement this morning about 125 pounder Spencer Lee. “It has been a long road of a recovery for Spencer Lee. He will medically forfeit out of the 2023 NCAA Wrestling Championships today in Tulsa.” Spencer suffered an upset loss in the semifinal round against Matt Ramos of Purdue. Spencer will finish in 6th place in his final NCAA tournament.

Lee will still go down as the Greatest First Period Wrestler in History.

The Ramos "Era" is currently only about 7 minutes long. In order for him to get his proverbial 15 minutes of fame, he has to win in OT against Glory, who will likely be weighing about 145 pounds Saturday night. Ramos is currently visualizing his Glory and planning to manifest his victory tomorrow. Quint "Q" Elroy Kessenich will be asking him about it in less than 20 hours. Stay tuned.

Maybe Sadulaev wants to get out of Russia in order to wrestle again and before being drafted by Vladimir. Marinelli's wife could set him up with a pious Iowa lass, and he could be a wrestler-coach for the Hawkeyes.

Road Warriors all.

I'm not interested in partaking of the bet myself, but a fitting signature in response might be: "I really enjoyed the Spencer Lee Era". It's certainly better than "I really enjoyed the Robert E. Lee Era."

Indeed. In fact, they garnered the second most All Americans. It's just that Iowa fans and wrestlers aren't too keen on 2nd place finishes, especially distant seconds.

The only guy who gets to the finals for Iowa is a transfer mostly trained elsewhere, who doesn't wrestle "Iowa style". That might be a key data point and wake up call. Okie State might even have more soul searching to do, however. Only 2 guys made it to Saturday and none in the finals.

Yes, it's gone viral, like it or not: https://thecomeback.com/ncaa/iowa-wrestling-spencer-lee-mom-broken-glasses.html

Standings at the end of Day 2: Team Standings Team Points Maximum Potential Points # F # Cons Semi # 3rd-4th # 5th-6th # 7th-8th Penn State 116.5 166.5 5 2 1 Iowa 77 125.5 1 5 Cornell 64 87.5 2 1 1 Ohio State 62 91 1 2 2 Missouri 55 84 1 2 2 Michigan 51 68.5 1 1 1 Nebraska 51 82.5 1 3 Iowa State 44 58.5 1 1 North Carolina State 41.5 61.5 2 1 Virginia Tech 40.5 66.5 2 3 Arizona State 37.5 66 3 1 North Carolina 35.5 53 1 1 1 South Dakota State 34 48.5 1 1 Minnesota 29.5 41 1 1 Northern Iowa 29 35 1 Princeton 29 43.5 1 1 Wisconsin 29 40.5 1 1 Purdue 27 36 1 1 Oklahoma State 25 42 2 Northwestern 23.5 32 1 Northern Colorado 23 29 1 Pittsburgh 23 29 1 Lehigh 22.5 31 1 North Dakota State 21 32.5 1 1 Air Force 20 28.5 1 Stanford 17 25.5 1 Oregon State 15 23.5 1 Cal Poly 14 22.5 1 Clarion 12.5 15.5 1 Illinois 11 11 Penn 9.5 9.5 Lock Haven 9 17.5 1 Rider 9 17.5 1 Rutgers 8 8 West Virginia 8 11 1 Columbia 7.5 7.5 Maryland 7.5 7.5 Northern Illinois 7.5 10.5 1 Indiana 7 7 Michigan State 6 6 Oklahoma 6 6 Utah Valley 6 6 Drexel 4.5 4.5 Campbell 4 4 Chattanooga 4 4 Harvard 4 4 SIUE 3 3 American 2.5 2.5 Virginia 2.5 2.5 Binghamton 2 2 Navy 2 2 Wyoming 2 2 Appalachian State 1 1 Cal State Bakersfield 1 1 Central Michigan 1 1 Army 0.5 0.5 Buffalo 0.5 0.5 Duke 0.5 0.5 Gardner Webb 0.5 0.5 George Mason 0.5 0.5 Bloomsburg 0 0 Bucknell 0 0 Edinboro 0 0 Hofstra 0 0 Kent State 0 0 Ohio 0 0 Note: Teams in RED have been mathematically eliminated from the team title race.

And then there were two: Team Standings Team Points Maximum Potential Points # SF # F # Cons 4 (Rd of 12) # Cons 5 (All Amer.) # Cons Semi # 7th-8th Penn State 109.5 179.5 7 4 1 1 2 Iowa 73.5 134 3 1 3 3 3 Cornell 64 98.5 3 2 3 1 1 Ohio State 57.5 103 1 1 6 4 1 1 Missouri 51.5 92.5 2 1 4 3 2 Nebraska 51 82.5 4 1 1 3 Michigan 42.5 69 2 3 1 1 1 North Carolina State 41.5 61.5 1 3 2 2 1 Virginia Tech 40.5 66.5 1 5 4 2 3 Iowa State 38.5 58.5 1 1 4 1 Arizona State 37.5 77 2 2 2 3 North Carolina 35.5 64 1 1 2 2 1 Minnesota 29.5 41 4 2 1 1 Northern Iowa 29 35 1 1 2 Princeton 29 43.5 2 1 1 Wisconsin 29 51.5 3 2 1 Purdue 27 36 1 1 1 1 1 South Dakota State 27 50.5 1 3 1 1 Northern Colorado 23 29 1 1 2 Lehigh 22.5 31 1 2 1 Oklahoma State 21.5 44 1 1 1 1 North Dakota State 21 32.5 2 2 1 1 Air Force 20 35 1 Northwestern 20 34 2 1 Stanford 17 25.5 2 1 1 Pittsburgh 16 31 1 2 Oregon State 15 23.5 1 1 Clarion 12.5 26.5 1 1 Illinois 11 11 3 Cal Poly 10.5 24.5 1 1 Penn 9.5 9.5 Lock Haven 9 17.5 1 1 1 Rider 9 24 1 Rutgers 8 8 1 West Virginia 8 11 1 1 1 Columbia 7.5 7.5 Maryland 7.5 7.5 1 Northern Illinois 7.5 10.5 1 1 1 Indiana 7 7 1 Michigan State 6 6 2 Oklahoma 6 6 Utah Valley 6 6 1 Drexel 4.5 4.5 1 Campbell 4 4 Chattanooga 4 4 Harvard 4 4 1 SIUE 3 3 1 American 2.5 2.5 Virginia 2.5 2.5 Binghamton 2 2 Navy 2 2 Wyoming 2 2 Appalachian State 1 1 Cal State Bakersfield 1 1 Central Michigan 1 1 Army 0.5 0.5 Buffalo 0.5 0.5 Duke 0.5 0.5 Gardner Webb 0.5 0.5 George Mason 0.5 0.5 Bloomsburg 0 0 Bucknell 0 0 Edinboro 0 0 Hofstra 0 0 Kent State 0 0 Ohio 0 0 Note: Teams in RED have been mathematically eliminated from the team title race.

Freud would have a field day with Lee's mother's reaction: she not only can't believe what she saw, she may not want to see clearly again.

It's interesting that Penn State's lightweights have done better (all 4 in the semis) than their vaunted upper weights (3 in semis; one out; one in round of 12). Who would have predicted that?

I thought it was called a dog bone configuration.

Another angle:

Looks pretty flat to me. In any case, Haines would likely have either continued to get a more clear fall; or won by 4 points or more (since he was building ride time):