Eagle26

Even though I’m not a PSU fan, I do not hope Cael loses his job (unless he truly deserves it). I’m hoping that he didn’t know much and can continue coaching. I do hope that it removes the idea that he “walks on water”. I’m from PA, so it seems everyone else here believes he can do no wrong. He does coach a lot of good character traits and mindset principles, BUT he is a win at all costs guy just as much as Brands (and about every other D1 coach). He will take whoever he thinks can get him a national title and he puts his team’s success above what it best for the sport (can’t blame him). I just hope it takes a bit of the aura off and maybe levels the recruiting field a bit.

Wow. Not good. The thing that surprises me the most is that they brought him back for a 5th year when they didn’t have to. The coaches had to know there was stuff going on (not sure to what extent), and they could’ve made the rest of the team a lot happier if they just let Carter move on after last year. I’m hoping they didn’t know the full extent of it or this is going to be really bad. After the football situation, I assume PSU would have to clean house IF there was some sort of cover up. I’m not convinced that’s the case though, so we will have to wait and see.

It could be interesting but I doubt it. IF (big if) they are in shape enough, it would be cool to see those guys compete again. I picked Darrion Caldwell as the best 149 of the last 25 years, but I just don’t see how he can compete with the current world team member. I mean if he was close to that level, why not make a run at the world team?

This is not a silly topic. He could easily salvage it by becoming university president, hiring himself as AD, firing the Brands bros, and then hiring himself as Head Coach. All while winning a world championship. Problem solved.

My opinion without any data to back it up is that the 3 point takedown has only done two things one good, one bad): 1. Made the match better proportionally between takedown and escape to determine the “better” wrestler. Ex. Of a 2pt TD match I do not like: Wrestle A has 2 takedowns and one escape. Wrestler B has one takedown and 3 escapes. Match is tied 5-5. 2. In a one takedown match, with 4-2 score, the 3pt TD allows the winning wrestler to take an extra stall call. I don’t think it has encouraged or discouraged anyone from going for more takedowns.

@Wrestleknownothing I’d be curious what you would get if you run the data for the two point takedowns based only on 2022-2023. 1993 was a looong time ago and so much has changed (including much better defense and more stingy wrestling). That could skew the data IMO.

This pretty much ends the debate. You don’t make the Olympic finals if you aren’t good at scrambling.

Not gonna lie it does bother me a little bit that he made such a big deal about his “commitment”, but then changed it anyway.

I have to agree with this. It’s hard for me to imagine that many people did not say or anything. Not trying to victim blame at all. I can’t imagine how that would affect someone and I can understand that some may have not known what to do. But if the number posted below by TN are even close to true, I would think the sheer number would dictate that there would be some who would respond by either beating the crap out of him or reporting him to the police.

Maybe we will see a Tennessee Mudflap or a DF jr.

I’m not sure what you are getting at here? Why would that not be a possibility?

Do you think Duke would want to take an ORS in 27/28 then? I don’t think he would want to have two redshirts in a row, and he definitely want to focus on an Olympic run. Maybe he would go the Snyder route and do a modified schedule?

I think it can work. Add in some cool storylines and maybe a little smack talk like WWE. Incentivize action and fun for the wrestlers. You are paying them to put on a show, not to win. Instead of giving them a bonus for winning, give them a bonus for winning over fans. Have some people play the villain too and reward them for that. I think there’s a good team behind it and I’m excited to see what happens. My biggest concern would be how to get the event have the prestige that comes with Olympic or world championship events? I think that may be the challenge… maybe you don’t need it if it’s entertaining enough though

I wouldn’t say those are excuses. I think Yianni looked like the better wrestler but he made some sloppy mistakes. Duke capitalized so he was the better wrestler today. I think we all just see the potential in Yianni and it’s frustrating to see him lose matches that it appears he could’ve won. Doesn’t take away from Duke at all! What he did was amazing! He’s the future here and I’m excited to see what he can do.

All good thoughts. I agree I’d like to see Dake at 79. Im sure he could easily make it and most likely win a World gold there. However, in his defense, I don’t think it’s laziness that he doesn’t want to cut weight. I think he doesn’t really care too much about another world gold… he is just 100% focused on that elusive Olympic gold. Going up now gives him more time to grow into the weight and increases his chances of getting that Olympic gold, so I can’t disagree with his thought process there. Kinda sucks as a fan though knowing we are probably missing out on another world medal.

Fair on Caldwell… I wanted to pick at least one spicy one! I will add that Metcalf is pretty similar to Zane IMO, and Sophomore Dake was nowhere near jr. And sr. Dake. He lost to Donnie Vinson and Kevin LeValley that year. No way that Dake is better than Caldwell at his peak. Zane probably is the best pick, but 149 was a tougher weight in Caldwells day and he dominated a guy who would’ve been known as an all time great if it wasn’t for that match. Brooks lost to Marcus Coleman his last year at 184. Starocci probably does beat Askren if you consider the advancement in wrestling techniques. He knows how to stop funk now. Askren was just innovative and ahead of his time. So I still think peak Askren was “better” if that makes sense.

Regarding JB, I think Caldwell’s whole strategy was to just stall and keep it as close as possible and hope to steal it at the end (can’t blame him… it was his best chance). If that’s your goal it’s easier to keep it close, but hard to pull out the W. JB was clutch in those close matches through the first several years of his world titles. He was 3-0 vs Caldwell that year including a major in the NCAA finals. I don’t think that close win takes anything away from JB. In fact it may add that he was diverse enough to pull out a win against a very defensive opponent. Regarding Ruth, I think you have a fair point. I think he often looked like he lacked interest (don’t know if that was the case - just eye test). If he is locked in and at his best, yeah you might be right that he is the best 174 in the last 25 years.

Best career and best at their peak are two totally different things. I think the no criteria does generate more discussion but it helps to clarify which one so I will try both. Best NCAA career (I took a little liberty with multiple weight classes but I don’t think you can beat this team with better NCAA finishes). 125 - Abas 133 - Stieber 141 - Yianni 149 - Retherford 157 - Nolf 165 - Dake 174 - Starocci 184 - Brooks 197 - Cael 285 - Snyder Best at peak (these weights are only for when the wrestler was at their peak IMO). Some commentary for context. 125 - Lee - very rarely if ever got to see peak Spencer Lee in college but at his best, I’d pick him over anyone. 133 - Vito - Senior year he was untouchable. 141 - Stieber - can’t think of any 141 I’d pick over him. 149 - Caldwell - controversial pick I know, but at his best, I think he beats anyone else 157 - Dake - Jr. year Dake still beats out Nolf at his peak 165 - Burroughs - Senior year JB may be one of the best NCAA wrestlers we have ever seen. 174 - Askren - talking peak here, and I know it’s debatable but don’t see anyone who beats Sr. Year Askren 184 - Nickal - this is a tough pick for me (because I’m not really a fan), but unless I can take Cael at both weights (Jr. Cael wins here too), I think he’s the best option. Jr. Brooks took a loss as did Sr. Ruth. Jr. Nickals was undefeated with an insane bonus percentage. 197 - Cael - enough said 285 - Gable - if you all think Snyder beats the best version of Steveson while giving up 40 pounds, y’all are delusional

Manning would be the one moving off. Everyone else could stay. I don’t how badly Snyder wants to be a head coach, but since he’s been assistant so long and never took a head coaching job elsewhere, I’d assume he’s happy with his current role. He and Burroughs seem to have a great relationship and he’d probably be happy to work with him to try to build a powerhouse team. He’s smart enough to know that the recruiting power JB brings is what they need. Snyder adds the coaching he experience and knowledge of the program they need. Casey Cunningham is happy being an integral part of Penn States dynasty. Why would that be such a bad thing for Bryan Snyder?

PCN did not “used to air them for free”. That would mean you could pick it up over an antenna. You needed to pay for a cable subscription to view PCN. Almost like you need to pay for a subscription to view Flo.

PSU has 6 or more national champions, setting a new record! Not sure if that even qualifies as bold, but it is something that’s never been done before so I think it should.

It should be very bold to call a true freshman as a national champ, but in this case, it doesn’t even seem like much of a bold pick!

Do you think this has anything to do with his departure from OSU? Timing is awfully close, but it doesn’t seem like something he would lose his job over, right?

If he was using PEDs, what do you think would’ve happened had he won? He would’ve had to go through with the testing. I’m sure he was planning on winning so I kinda doubt that is the case. Certainly can’t rule out that he wasn’t doing something after he retired, but as others mentioned, that’s just not the same as using PEDs.

Dake vs Zahid is hands down the headliner. Even though we already saw it, it’s still a close match and the most prestigious by far. Next in my opinion, are the two high school phenoms vs. proven senior level guys. It just adds some excitement to see how they can compare