Eagle26

All good thoughts. I agree I’d like to see Dake at 79. Im sure he could easily make it and most likely win a World gold there. However, in his defense, I don’t think it’s laziness that he doesn’t want to cut weight. I think he doesn’t really care too much about another world gold… he is just 100% focused on that elusive Olympic gold. Going up now gives him more time to grow into the weight and increases his chances of getting that Olympic gold, so I can’t disagree with his thought process there. Kinda sucks as a fan though knowing we are probably missing out on another world medal.

Fair on Caldwell… I wanted to pick at least one spicy one! I will add that Metcalf is pretty similar to Zane IMO, and Sophomore Dake was nowhere near jr. And sr. Dake. He lost to Donnie Vinson and Kevin LeValley that year. No way that Dake is better than Caldwell at his peak. Zane probably is the best pick, but 149 was a tougher weight in Caldwells day and he dominated a guy who would’ve been known as an all time great if it wasn’t for that match. Brooks lost to Marcus Coleman his last year at 184. Starocci probably does beat Askren if you consider the advancement in wrestling techniques. He knows how to stop funk now. Askren was just innovative and ahead of his time. So I still think peak Askren was “better” if that makes sense.

Regarding JB, I think Caldwell’s whole strategy was to just stall and keep it as close as possible and hope to steal it at the end (can’t blame him… it was his best chance). If that’s your goal it’s easier to keep it close, but hard to pull out the W. JB was clutch in those close matches through the first several years of his world titles. He was 3-0 vs Caldwell that year including a major in the NCAA finals. I don’t think that close win takes anything away from JB. In fact it may add that he was diverse enough to pull out a win against a very defensive opponent. Regarding Ruth, I think you have a fair point. I think he often looked like he lacked interest (don’t know if that was the case - just eye test). If he is locked in and at his best, yeah you might be right that he is the best 174 in the last 25 years.

Best career and best at their peak are two totally different things. I think the no criteria does generate more discussion but it helps to clarify which one so I will try both. Best NCAA career (I took a little liberty with multiple weight classes but I don’t think you can beat this team with better NCAA finishes). 125 - Abas 133 - Stieber 141 - Yianni 149 - Retherford 157 - Nolf 165 - Dake 174 - Starocci 184 - Brooks 197 - Cael 285 - Snyder Best at peak (these weights are only for when the wrestler was at their peak IMO). Some commentary for context. 125 - Lee - very rarely if ever got to see peak Spencer Lee in college but at his best, I’d pick him over anyone. 133 - Vito - Senior year he was untouchable. 141 - Stieber - can’t think of any 141 I’d pick over him. 149 - Caldwell - controversial pick I know, but at his best, I think he beats anyone else 157 - Dake - Jr. year Dake still beats out Nolf at his peak 165 - Burroughs - Senior year JB may be one of the best NCAA wrestlers we have ever seen. 174 - Askren - talking peak here, and I know it’s debatable but don’t see anyone who beats Sr. Year Askren 184 - Nickal - this is a tough pick for me (because I’m not really a fan), but unless I can take Cael at both weights (Jr. Cael wins here too), I think he’s the best option. Jr. Brooks took a loss as did Sr. Ruth. Jr. Nickals was undefeated with an insane bonus percentage. 197 - Cael - enough said 285 - Gable - if you all think Snyder beats the best version of Steveson while giving up 40 pounds, y’all are delusional

Manning would be the one moving off. Everyone else could stay. I don’t how badly Snyder wants to be a head coach, but since he’s been assistant so long and never took a head coaching job elsewhere, I’d assume he’s happy with his current role. He and Burroughs seem to have a great relationship and he’d probably be happy to work with him to try to build a powerhouse team. He’s smart enough to know that the recruiting power JB brings is what they need. Snyder adds the coaching he experience and knowledge of the program they need. Casey Cunningham is happy being an integral part of Penn States dynasty. Why would that be such a bad thing for Bryan Snyder?

PCN did not “used to air them for free”. That would mean you could pick it up over an antenna. You needed to pay for a cable subscription to view PCN. Almost like you need to pay for a subscription to view Flo.

PSU has 6 or more national champions, setting a new record! Not sure if that even qualifies as bold, but it is something that’s never been done before so I think it should.

It should be very bold to call a true freshman as a national champ, but in this case, it doesn’t even seem like much of a bold pick!

Do you think this has anything to do with his departure from OSU? Timing is awfully close, but it doesn’t seem like something he would lose his job over, right?

If he was using PEDs, what do you think would’ve happened had he won? He would’ve had to go through with the testing. I’m sure he was planning on winning so I kinda doubt that is the case. Certainly can’t rule out that he wasn’t doing something after he retired, but as others mentioned, that’s just not the same as using PEDs.

Dake vs Zahid is hands down the headliner. Even though we already saw it, it’s still a close match and the most prestigious by far. Next in my opinion, are the two high school phenoms vs. proven senior level guys. It just adds some excitement to see how they can compare

I agree but I don’t think there’s any way USA wrestling does this. I’d guess if Snyder says he’s out, Zilmer is automatically in. Isn’t this kinda like what DT did and Downey got the spot?

So now the question is, does Snyder wrestle even though he can? If he is going to try to repair things with himself and his family, it’s hard to imagine that an international trip to Croatia would be good for him and his wife right now. Or maybe he can bring the family along for a nice vacation and it will work out?

Why is this about age? Yes some people win world championships at 18 and some at 40. Why would that be evidence that Starocci is at his peak? How much freestyle has he trained and competed in? I have a hard time believing that he won’t get better at freestyle if he chooses to focus 100% on it. Now, he may switch to mma so this could end up being his peak in freestyle, but it has nothing to do with age and everything to do with his training.

How could anyone think Carter Starocci is in his “freestyle prime”? Maybe his age is his physical prime, but there’s no way you can say he’s at the best he will ever be in freestyle. He’s been focused on folk style and has done very little freestyle (comparatively speaking). I was glad to see Dake win and I believe it was the right call, but I am not confident in a rematch as Carter continues to improve

I’d guess it has nothing to do with the mats. The humidity in the building is probably just way too high. Probably very humid but not not hot enough to run the AC enough to keep up with the humidity.

Don’t think that’s a takedown in freestyle just because the leg is in right?

Yeah… I’m not sure how they didn’t give 2 and 2 on that last sequence. That would’ve given Gross the win

I think it’s more that they want to help the number of viewers for Greco and women’s. It probably does end up hurting the overall viewership though. I think if they had an event with just Men’s freestyle in a shorter amount of time, it would be a lot more popular.

What???

Agreed. Don’t you think guys like that wish they weren’t held back and could be starting college this year?

I would think Dan Gable and Cael Sanderson have to be on this list domestically. Also Kolat was the best in the world for several years in row but was robbed of the hardware to prove it.

Should Jimmy Cinnabon retire from this forum?

You may have been able do one side than the other with gut wrenches? We might need someone else to weigh in too because my memory is getting a bit foggy too lol. The multiple laces stopped sometime after John Smith (I heard it said he laced too many people and that’s why they wanted it changed lol). It was single turns when started freestyle in the late 90s, so maybe it changed after the 96 Olympics. I believe the “ball grab era” started after the 2004 Olympics… that’s when the rules really sucked!

Yes. There had to be a different score before you could score again with the same hold. You could hold them on their back for a five count and get one point for that. That would count as a different score and then you could turn them again without releasing. Most often seen in the trapped arm gut