Cornell/NC State

[Dogbone]

174 was crazy.    At one point, Singleton lost a tooth, but still finished the takedown and somehow never even took blood time.   Like he lost it and there was no blood at any point and if they didn't have to pick up his tooth, no one would have even known he lost it.    I truly don't understand it. 

Then in the 2nd period, the ref called stalling on the bottom wrester (Singleton) and the top wrestler (Ruiz) within 30 seconds of each other and I don't think anything change positionally.   Subjective stalling called twice by a ref in 2026!

In the 3rd the ref called another stalling on Singleton when he was on bottom and just needed 1 point to force OT.  Same position as in the 2nd period with Ruiz putting on a parallel ride but this time the Ref dings the guy who needs the score (and was trying just couldn't get out).

Oh and #2 Joy lost too.   

NC St 19 Cornell 18. 

[Fletcher]

25 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

174 was crazy.    At one point, Singleton lost a tooth, but still finished the takedown and somehow never even took blood time.   Like he lost it and there was no blood at any point and if they didn't have to pick up his tooth, no one would have even known he lost it.    I truly don't understand it. 

Then in the 2nd period, the ref called stalling on the bottom wrester (Singleton) and the top wrestler (Ruiz) within 30 seconds of each other and I don't think anything change positionally.   Subjective stalling called twice by a ref in 2026!

In the 3rd the ref called another stalling on Singleton when he was on bottom and just needed 1 point to force OT.  Same position as in the 2nd period with Ruiz putting on a parallel ride but this time the Ref dings the guy who needs the score (and was trying just couldn't get out).

Oh and #2 Joy lost too.   

NC St 19 Cornell 18. 

Calling stalling on the bottom wrestler when they're losing is so dumb. Being unable to get out =/= stalling

[BigRedFan]

4 hours ago, Dogbone said:

74 was crazy.    At one point, Singleton lost a tooth, but still finished the takedown and somehow never even took blood time.   Like he lost it and there was no blood at any point and if they didn't have to pick up his tooth, no one would have even known he lost it.    I truly don't understand it. 

I'm sure it was a veneer, not a tooth.

[fishbane]

3 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

I'm sure it was a veneer, not a tooth.

What makes you sure it was a veneer?  

I never lost a tooth in a match, but I broke one in practice.  I was in on a single and decided to change direction to try and finish it as a double.  The guy I was wrestling stepped around at the same time and his knee hit me in the mouth.  One of my front teeth broke off pretty high up.  It didn’t hurt and there was no blood.  You could see the pink pulp in the part of the tooth that remained.   I didn’t finish the takedown, but I finished practice.  Ended up getting a root canal and a crown.

A couple years later I broke that crown in wrestling practice.  I was shooting a takedown at the same time as my opponent.  I got lower and his shoulder hit my mouth.  Again no blood and no takedown.  After that I started wearing a mouth guard.

[Wolfpack05]

It was tough to see Singleton lose that match. He came out so strong with two takedowns in the first period. Credit to Ruiz though for battling back and controlling him on the mat. 

[Tyler]

This was a pretty exciting dual. I thought for sure NCST’s 184 was gonna stall out and lose the dual lol

[2001Hokie]

2 minutes ago, Tyler said:

This was a pretty exciting dual. I thought for sure NCST’s 184 was gonna stall out and lose the dual lol

Yeah it's funny how such a bad match ended up deciding the dual.  The ref had to work hard to justify not stalling out Cates.  I mean he threw out some random desperation takedown attempts, but he backed out so many times, I was shocked the dq didn't happen.  It made for an exciting finish, but it was very interesting to see what was and wasn't stalling, especially with the calls in the 174 match.

[Doublehalf]

4 minutes ago, 2001Hokie said:

Yeah it's funny how such a bad match ended up deciding the dual.  The ref had to work hard to justify not stalling out Cates.  I mean he threw out some random desperation takedown attempts, but he backed out so many times, I was shocked the dq didn't happen.  It made for an exciting finish, but it was very interesting to see what was and wasn't stalling, especially with the calls in the 174 match.

Yeah the stalling was abhorrent and I get not wanting to decide a dual that way but call it what it is... If that was one of the first 2 matches of the night I bet he gets stalled out... Dude did not wrestle the entire match.

[2001Hokie]

Just now, Doublehalf said:

Yeah the stalling was abhorrent and I get not wanting to decide a dual that way but call it what it is... If that was one of the first 2 matches of the night I bet he gets stalled out... Dude did not wrestle the entire match.

100% right.  If it's that obvious, the ref isn't deciding the match...it's the wrestler

[Owen Rector]

Don Cates matches are usually fun to watch, the guy manages to get on the leg a ton during the match but always fails in the scrambles. He did not look good last night, I think the other guy just worked him until he gassed.

[Lordnelson]

I need to rewatch the match because Cates took a lot of shots to account for the backing up/out.  I feel he did just enough to hang on.  

[BigRedFan]

1 hour ago, Lordnelson said:

I need to rewatch the match because Cates took a lot of shots to account for the backing up/out.  I feel he did just enough to hang on.  

(I don't count waving at a leg or ankle a shot)

1st period:  Cerchio 5 shots Cates 2 (one of which resulted in the Cerchio TD); Cates had 2 stall calls and deserved a third

2nd period:  Cerchio 2 Cates 2.  Cates standing behind Cerchio for eight seconds at the start before letting him go, no stall call. 1 stall call.

3rd period.  Cerchio 1 (?) Cates 2.  Cates runs out of bounds and circles, no stall call.  Cates pushed to the line, crawls out of bounds, no stall call.  Gets a fourth stall call.

Or something like that.  Cates did enough to avoid a late last stall call, but did enough to warrant eight (more or less) stall calls.

[Antitroll2828]

8 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

(I don't count waving at a leg or ankle a shot)

1st period:  Cerchio 5 shots Cates 2 (one of which resulted in the Cerchio TD); Cates had 2 stall calls and deserved a third

2nd period:  Cerchio 2 Cates 2.  Cates standing behind Cerchio for eight seconds at the start before letting him go, no stall call. 1 stall call.

3rd period.  Cerchio 1 (?) Cates 2.  Cates runs out of bounds and circles, no stall call.  Cates pushed to the line, crawls out of bounds, no stall call.  Gets a fourth stall call.

Or something like that.  Cates did enough to avoid a late last stall call, but did enough to warrant eight (more or less) stall calls.

Cates who has been 184 all year should not be spending most the match on the run from a guy whose been wrestling 165 most the of the season. 
 

@BigRedFan what do you think Cerchio future is at Cornell? He really struggled more than I expected at 165. I assumed it was weight related, I thought he was a great get for Cornell. Do you think Ruiz moves up to 184 at some point , does Cerchio try to build up to an 184 or does he go the Bouzakis route and starting cutting down to 165 the day after ncaas this year? Or is he going to be the odd man out moving forward ?

[Booger]

24 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Cates who has been 184 all year should not be spending most the match on the run from a guy whose been wrestling 165 most the of the season. 
 

@BigRedFan what do you think Cerchio future is at Cornell? He really struggled more than I expected at 165. I assumed it was weight related, I thought he was a great get for Cornell. Do you think Ruiz moves up to 184 at some point , does Cerchio try to build up to an 184 or does he go the Bouzakis route and starting cutting down to 165 the day after ncaas this year? Or is he going to be the odd man out moving forward ?

Not really sure... but I'm sure Coach Grey has THE Plan for next season.

[tjhart]

Some have congratulated the referee for not "deciding the match" by calling the stall that would have DQ'ed Cates. However, in not calling the stall he decided that NC St would win. 

[BigRedFan]

1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

 what do you think Cerchio future is at Cornell? He really struggled more than I expected at 165. I assumed it was weight related, I thought he was a great get for Cornell. Do you think Ruiz moves up to 184 at some point , does Cerchio try to build up to an 184 or does he go the Bouzakis route and starting cutting down to 165 the day after ncaas this year? Or is he going to be the odd man out moving forward ?

Assuming everyone is healthy next year...

141 is Cornella (I believe he will *still* have eligibility next year), 149 is Joy, 157 is Shapiro, and 174 is Ruiz.  Full stop on those.  Next year, Perentin comes in at 165.  Cerchio had a lot of trouble making 165, so he has to go 184.  Next year, Jude Correa should be in at 197.  Mikey Dellagatta should be back and down at 184, but Elijah Diakomihalis will find no room at the inn.  Rocco Dellagatta should be at 285, although he'll have *five* other 285ers who are already at Cornell.  Hansen (injured 184 starter) will have used up his eligibility, I believe.  Too bad on that one.

Cerchio is gonna have to battle "little" Dellagatta at 184, and "little" Diakomihalis will have to beat Correa, which won't be likely.  With a bulked up Cerchio and a slightly sucked Dellagatta, and how Cerchio has looked as a small 184, and agreeing that he was a great get, I wouldn't be surprised to see him win that weight.

Only Shapiro and Cornella will be seniors next year, so nothing much will open up for those above 157.

(for completeness, those more informed than I think it will be Isaiah Cortez dropping to 125 and Elijah Cortez fighting it out with Ferrera at 131)

[Lordnelson]

15 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Cates who has been 184 all year should not be spending most the match on the run from a guy whose been wrestling 165 most the of the season. 

Correct.  But it doesn't mean he should be stalled out and DQ'D either.  I can't imagine Pop is proud of the display regardless.  If the official hit him again I'd be ok with it as well but I understand why he didn't, if in fact he thought Cates did just enough to not get tagged again.  

[BigRedFan]

40 minutes ago, Lordnelson said:

Correct.  But it doesn't mean he should be stalled out and DQ'D either.  I can't imagine Pop is proud of the display regardless.  If the official hit him again I'd be ok with it as well but I understand why he didn't, if in fact he thought Cates did just enough to not get tagged again.  

What was Pop trying to tell Cates by pointing at the ground with :16 left?  Ground yourself so you can't back off the mat again?  Get taken down?

Edited February 22 by BigRedFan

[Doublehalf]

1 hour ago, Lordnelson said:

Correct.  But it doesn't mean he should be stalled out and DQ'D either.  I can't imagine Pop is proud of the display regardless.  If the official hit him again I'd be ok with it as well but I understand why he didn't, if in fact he thought Cates did just enough to not get tagged again.  

If the same ref that did the Lilledahl/McGowan match had ref'd this one, Cates would have been stalled out at the end of the 2nd period.

He was on his ice skates as soon as the whistle blew to start the match.

Edited February 22 by Doublehalf

[Lordnelson]

3 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

What was Pop trying to tell Cates by pointing at the ground with :16 left?  Ground yourself so you can't back off the mat again?  Get taken down?

Irrelevant in the moment.  He is trying to win the dual meet.

[Lordnelson]

3 hours ago, Doublehalf said:

If the same ref that did the Lilledahl/McGowan match had ref'd this one, Cates would have been stalled out at the end of the 2nd period.

He was on his ice skates as soon as the whistle blew to start the match.

And if that guy did the Blaze v Davino.........But he didn't

[BigRedFan]

30 minutes ago, Lordnelson said:

Irrelevant in the moment.  He is trying to win the dual meet.

It's relevant to those of us, like me who asked the question and would like to know what he was doing, don't you think?

[Lordnelson]

I have no idea what he was doing.  I doubt he wanted him to get taken down, that would've given up the major and tied the team score. Probably telling him to stay in the center.  My point being that what he tells him in the moment vs. what he thinks overall are two totally different things.  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because he doesn't make the calls.

[Owen Rector]

He may have been trying to get him to get taken down. a stall call means a dq and cornell wins. getting taken down means a major which would have tied the team score, but would have given nc state the win by criteria, since they had more techs.