PSU is awesome … but ….

[BIGTENFANBOY]

3 hours ago, Fred said:

Since Carl refuses to engage for a full season, just start the whole thing in Jan for everyone. People here underestimate the advantage their scheduling gives them… yesterday’s dual couldn’t have made that clearer. 

So what youre saying is it was smart of Cael to not enter the national duals and stupid of all the tram that did?

[OMW]

2 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

having your kids learn to slow wrestle (basically stall - MM and Haines as general exceptions) until they need to move 

lol - STFU boot...

[BIGTENFANBOY]

4 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Team is incredible.  Looks like best team ever and may just build on that next year.  Gap between them and any other team is gapping.  Kudos to Cael, his staff, the wrestlers, and the support network and fans.  Truly truly amazing.

But - it makes the whole sport a lot less interesting for me.  Just not much anticipation.  You know the underdog is going to get smacked, hard.  
 

Team title at NCAAs is such a foregone conclusion that it isn’t part of the fun.  More of an ‘oh damn.’  Doesn’t bring excitement to the sport anymore.
 

Wishing there was someway to create more parity.  Current situation is diminishing my interest.

Don't do what Iowa has been doing.

Do what Oklahoma State and Virginia Tech has been doing. Play the long game and build your foundation. OSU you be threatening PSU soon.

[CHROMEBIRD]

I want to see more parity too, but people saying PSU's dominance is bad for the sport is a myth. In general, dynasties drive up overall attendance and viewership. It creates storylines among fans who want to see the machine at work or evil empire topple, and generates interest among casual fans who want to see "the best" at a sport. It widens the fanbase and boosts the overall value of the sport, but just the winning team.

It might suck as a hardcore fan of another program, but there's a reason why conferences and tv networks love dynasties. Superstar athletes & teams beat fan apathy & predictability. Bizarre but true. Look at PSU wrestling (or Duke basketball, or Alabama football, or UConn WBB... or the 90s Bulls, 00s Yankees, Brady-era Pats, current Vegas Aces, etc.): we know they draw big crowds and tv cameras at home, but on the road they take every team's best shot and drive up ticket prices. 

Human behavior is weird, and there's some economic principle behind this whose name I can't recall off the top of my head, but while competitive parity sounds good, storylines and "greatness" is better at driving aggregate demand. If the PSU (or Iowa, or Okie State) era didn't exist, the sport would arguably in worse shape than it is now. 

[AZ_wrestling]

I love PSU’s dominance, but I’m not as convinced it’ll continue — at least to the current degree — much longer. 2028 NCAAs will be very competitive and as of now I’d favor OkSt to win in 29. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

23 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I want to see more parity too, but people saying PSU's dominance is bad for the sport is a myth. In general, dynasties drive up overall attendance and viewership. It creates storylines among fans who want to see the machine at work or evil empire topple, and generates interest among casual fans who want to see "the best" at a sport. It widens the fanbase and boosts the overall value of the sport, but just the winning team.

It might suck as a hardcore fan of another program, but there's a reason why conferences and tv networks love dynasties. Superstar athletes & teams beat fan apathy & predictability. Bizarre but true. Look at PSU wrestling (or Duke basketball, or Alabama football, or UConn WBB... or the 90s Bulls, 00s Yankees, Brady-era Pats, current Vegas Aces, etc.): we know they draw big crowds and tv cameras at home, but on the road they take every team's best shot and drive up ticket prices. 

Human behavior is weird, and there's some economic principle behind this whose name I can't recall off the top of my head, but while competitive parity sounds good, storylines and "greatness" is better at driving aggregate demand. If the PSU (or Iowa, or Okie State) era didn't exist, the sport would arguably in worse shape than it is now. 

*not just the winning team

[PortaJohn]

I care more about NCAA's tournament location parity.  Can we get Tempe/Phoenix and anywhere Florida on the rotation?   

[Simpleman424]

1 hour ago, OMW said:

lol - STFU boot...

Careful…you might upset people that know what that terminology and where it comes from. I know the type of guys that say actually that…by all means associate yourself with that.

[Doublehalf]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Human behavior is weird, and there's some economic principle behind this whose name I can't recall off the top of my head, but while competitive parity sounds good, storylines and "greatness" is better at driving aggregate demand. If the PSU (or Iowa, or Okie State) era didn't exist, the sport would arguably in worse shape than it is now. 

As much as I too would like to see a battle for the team title, it's hard to disagree with this.

[PortaJohn]

3 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

having your kids learn to slow wrestle (basically stall - MM and Haines as general exceptions) until they need to move

I genuinely enjoy your input on these forums but this take is just hot garbage

[Simpleman424]

10 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

I genuinely enjoy your input on these forums but this take is just hot garbage

I wasn’t necessarily saying slowing the pace down like they do was a negative thing…it’s actually a high level IQ strategy. Frustrating to watch but very smart. They did the same thing against Iowa and others but Carl’s making sure his guys are peaking at the end of the season and that’s a good way to do it. Sorry if that came off wrong. And for the record I don’t hate on PSU and its wrestling accomplishments at all. I think it’s been great for the sport. 

[Sir Pin Alot]

I have been reading a lot about stalling and how PSU will stall ride and not get dinged for it.

This info is a couple of duals stale however through 13 duals this season, PSU total takedowns are 418 for and 35 against. That’s an average of better than 32-3 for the season. To break it down further, PSU wrestlers average slightly more per match than opponents do for the dual. It was 25-5 last night against tOSU.  The stalling story is patently false.

[Maxwell Smart]

Any team that dominates eventually makes other teams better and gets replaced. The key factor for a run is to keep the coaching in place, which PSU has done. The name calling and tearing down come after the success. Keep the same coaches and you'll have the same results. 

[PortaJohn]

40 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

I wasn’t necessarily saying slowing the pace down like they do was a negative thing…it’s actually a high level IQ strategy. Frustrating to watch but very smart. They did the same thing against Iowa and others but Carl’s making sure his guys are peaking at the end of the season and that’s a good way to do it. Sorry if that came off wrong. And for the record I don’t hate on PSU and its wrestling accomplishments at all. I think it’s been great for the sport. 

You're going to have to give specifics because I'm not seeing it. Marcus went back to his old bag of tricks last night against Davino.  But that's a strategy he used before setting foot in State College.  Rocco looked off most of the match and a deer in headlights fending off Fishbacks attacks.  For the Ferrari match I don't know another strategy he could've used.  But in general he's wrestling/flowing at a higher pace than in the past.  SVN, Cole, & Luke have all wrestled at a steady high pace all year.  SVN gives up so many takedowns early on because of the pace he wrestles but wins because his opponents can't match his output.  As for Barr I can't think of a match where he's put on the brakes for more than a second or two to catch his breath.  He's constantly hand fighting and setting up attacks

Edited February 14 by PortaJohn

[OMW]

1 hour ago, Simpleman424 said:

Careful…you might upset people that know what that terminology and where it comes from. I know the type of guys that say actually that…by all means associate yourself with that.

Brother, as a multi-time deployed 03, I had seen, heard and used it in all its forms.

Yut rah err!

[Caveira]

32 minutes ago, Sir Pin Alot said:

I have been reading a lot about stalling and how PSU will stall ride and not get dinged for it.

This info is a couple of duals stale however through 13 duals this season, PSU total takedowns are 418 for and 35 against. That’s an average of better than 32-3 for the season. To break it down further, PSU wrestlers average slightly more per match than opponents do for the dual. It was 25-5 last night against tOSU.  The stalling story is patently false.

You didn’t discuss riding in your they don’t seal comment.  
 

they will up their stall riding in the post season 

Edited February 14 by Caveira

[William Lang]

didn't feel like the riding was too much of a stall. if anything some of tOSU wrestlers looked like they were making next to no attempt to get up, and trying to get bailed out. slow paced duel overall. 

[Simpleman424]

44 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

You're going to have to give specifics because I'm not seeing it. Marcus went back to his old bag of tricks last night against Davino.  But that's a strategy he used before setting foot in State College.  Rocco looked off most of the match and a deer in headlights fending off Fishbacks attacks.  For the Ferrari match I don't know another strategy he could've used.  But in general he's wrestling/flowing at a higher pace than in the past.  SVN, Cole, & Luke have all wrestled at a steady high pace all year.  SVN gives up so many takedowns early on because of the pace he wrestles but wins because his opponents can't match his output.  As for Barr I can't think of a match where he's put on the brakes for more than a second or two to catch his breath.  He's constantly hand fighting and setting up attacks

Well like Sir Pin Alot said above, the ratio last night was 25-5. I should have included SVN with MM and Haines but these are the same guys pushing pace and dominating…well because they can regardless of competition level. I’d have to rewatch the matches but those three guys account for how many of those 25 takedowns? And this is a trend…but for last night you’re telling me the rest of that team couldn’t work an Ohio State team that sat three starters and limped their way into that dual to begin with. Iowa was the same way. I just don’t see it…PSU is just too talented. I also only apply this to teams with a pulse…clearly they let their guys eat against the guys that shouldn’t even be on the mat with them but it’s deliberate, low risk and purposeful. Again, not hating just stating an observation.

[Simpleman424]

7 minutes ago, William Lang said:

didn't feel like the riding was too much of a stall. if anything some of tOSU wrestlers looked like they were making next to no attempt to get up, and trying to get bailed out. slow paced duel overall. 

Yea I’m with you when it comes to riding because there is a significant level of skill to riding, especially at that level. However I wouldn’t really say TOSU guys weren’t making attempts they just couldn’t do anything. That happens when you’re Fielding getting ridden by SVN…there was no looking to it he just couldn’t. Lol

[Simpleman424]

3 minutes ago, Coastal said:

Is "sat three starters" a euphemism for DUCK.   

It takes two to tango and Ohio State clearly came in with the mission not to give up bonus at some weights and did nothing.  Even in the three toss up matches, Ohio State was happy with doing nothing.  Bouzakis didn't try to score, Davino had one really good attempt and that was it and Feldman almost gave up a scramble takedown and then decided attempting to score wasn't for him.

I've never seen a team gas that badly while not doing much.

 

 

Nah I don’t generally speak in euphemisms…Stiles (looks to have fainting spells from weight cut…shouldn’t be at 149), Cannon (legit injury) and Kharchala (legit injury)…did you want them to wrestle those goes so people don’t say they’re “ducking”? They needed to not wrestle…that’s just a silly comment 

Bouzakis is literally out there wrestling on one and a half hips…dude I don’t know what to tell you.  You clearly don’t follow Ohio State. These kids were limping in there…they should have been wrestling to not give up bonus. They were completely outmatched…

[Simpleman424]

10 minutes ago, Coastal said:

You are the one who made the excuse about Ohio State missing three starters.   

I saw Bouzakis' last match.  I don't think it was his hip, I think he was holding his kidney, which is a common occurence if someone is constantly dehydrating themselves.  I think Kilkeary would finish higher at NCAAs as I just don't see how Bouzakis is going to hold that weight for three straight days

That’s not an excuse it’s just facts…saying they ducked because they sat injured guys is insane.

Bouzakis has put on a masterclass with how he’s handled his weight this year…and they said it was his hip…

There is absolutely no way, I mean in any world or universe outside of injury would Kilkeary finish higher at NCAAs. This has to be a troll job…

[mr.nonothingatall]

4 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

I care more about NCAA's tournament location parity.  Can we get Tempe/Phoenix and anywhere Florida on the rotation?   

This is something I could get behind

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Simpleman424 said:

Nah I don’t generally speak in euphemisms…Stiles (looks to have fainting spells from weight cut…shouldn’t be at 149), Cannon (legit injury) and Kharchala (legit injury)…did you want them to wrestle those goes so people don’t say they’re “ducking”? They needed to not wrestle…that’s just a silly comment 

Bouzakis is literally out there wrestling on one and a half hips…dude I don’t know what to tell you.  You clearly don’t follow Ohio State. These kids were limping in there…they should have been wrestling to not give up bonus. They were completely outmatched…

Does Kharchla actually currently have an injury?

[Pinnacle]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Does Kharchla actually currently have an injury?

 

Kharchla wrestled thru a 45 second scramble to end his match the prior week. Last we saw of him. Is he hurt? Maybe. Maybe even probably. Almost everyone hurts somewhere this time of year. But that is different than being injured.

[Simpleman424]

8 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

 

Kharchla wrestled thru a 45 second scramble to end his match the prior week. Last we saw of him. Is he hurt? Maybe. Maybe even probably. Almost everyone hurts somewhere this time of year. But that is different than being injured.

Kharchala is a walking injury…he’d wrestle through anything if you let him. But yea there was fear he messed something up. I imagine he wanted that match…he kind of needed it to be honest…