Caveira Posted January 5 Posted January 5 with lineups like this Is raf sustainable???? Are these matchups going to grow the fan / ppv base? Raf06 headliner. Cejudo v faber. Cejudo 38 year old. Oly champ. MMA champ etc. zero bad things to say about him. He’s amazing. faber 46 year old. NCAA qualifier blood round guy. State champ I think. MMA champ. Nothing bad to say about him. He’s amazing. is this sustainable as a headliner? Is this the type of matchup they think makes this successful? Two old dudes in a fs match? Last raf was a young dude (bo nickal) against a grandpa from Cuba where bo pulled out. it seems like they’re trying to pull “name recognition” from places to get viewers but will this work? Old mma guys vs older mma guys in ufc is not sustainable either imo…… at least if you have to pay for it it is not. how many subscribers does fox nation have … google says 2 - 2.5 million? Is that accurate? Are they dependent on people buying Fox nation?
GlassPrison Posted January 5 Posted January 5 I don't think the business model is to run headliners like this in perpetuity, but they don't have established stars to a mainstream audience and they need to pull in casual viewers. Easiest crossover is legitimate stars from the MMA world. I think you'll see fewer headliners like this once the league is more established, but right now they need visibility. I enjoy the matches, but I'm admittedly the target demographic here and historically a much bigger fan of MMA than amateur wrestling. Even if these aren't for the hardcore wrestling fan, I feel like JO vs. Real Woods, Parker vs. Zahid, Dake vs. Kadzi, etc. makes up for it.
Antitroll2828 Posted January 5 Posted January 5 13 minutes ago, Caveira said: with lineups like this Is raf sustainable???? Are these matchups going to grow the fan / ppv base? Raf06 headliner. Cejudo v faber. Cejudo 38 year old. Oly champ. MMA champ etc. zero bad things to say about him. He’s amazing. faber 46 year old. NCAA qualifier blood round guy. State champ I think. MMA champ. Nothing bad to say about him. He’s amazing. is this sustainable as a headliner? Is this the type of matchup they think makes this successful? Two old dudes in a fs match? Last raf was a young dude (bo nickal) against a grandpa from Cuba where bo pulled out. it seems like they’re trying to pull “name recognition” from places to get viewers but will this work? Old mma guys vs older mma guys in ufc is not sustainable either imo…… at least if you have to pay for it it is not. how many subscribers does fox nation have … google says 2 - 2.5 million? Is that accurate? Are they dependent on people buying Fox nation? Bishoff said in a recent interview that they’ve made 4x the expected projected revenue so far so something seems to be going right. I know a few people that have watched everyone and they love it and one of them was just an mma fan never wrestled in his life
Caveira Posted January 5 Author Posted January 5 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said: Bishoff said in a recent interview that they’ve made 4x the expected projected revenue so far so something seems to be going right. I know a few people that have watched everyone and they love it and one of them was just an mma fan never wrestled in his life Fair. I want it to succeed. It would help the sport. I’ll tell you where my head is at one point I got every ufc ppv for a lot of ppv(s) in a row. I didn’t count but 2-3 years worth. I got tired of the meh cards and sort of slowed down / stopped. That’s what I mean by sustainability. If it keeps going this way can we get to raf100… raf150…. Raf200. We’re in the raw honeymoon phase now where let’s say 110% of hard core fans will get the ppv / watch. xyz % new fans will buy/watch. If the cards don’t get better over time. Will they retain 110% of the hard cores? Will they get new fans in sufficient volume every event in a row? tv is sales. If ratings don’t go up ppv over ppv it won’t survive. It needs growth. Edited January 5 by Caveira
Caveira Posted January 10 Author Posted January 10 3 people missed weight. Bo nickal is to chicken to wrestle grandpa at +7 lbs over. Raf5 is a disaster. How do they keep this going.
Caveira Posted January 10 Author Posted January 10 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Coastal said: What are the clowns at HWC doing. Wrestlers have one job and Buchanon can't even make weight. Their last wrestler to show up on weight got stuck so maybe that's the plan One of them is man enough to wrestle grandpa Romero though. Wouldn’t ya say ? Edited January 10 by Caveira
Gus Posted January 11 Posted January 11 3 hours ago, Coastal said: What are the clowns at HWC doing. Wrestlers have one job and Buchanon can't even make weight. Their last wrestler to show up on weight got stuck so maybe that's the plan They told Buchanan the wrong weight class. RAF told him he was wrestling at 225
flyingcement Posted January 11 Posted January 11 16 minutes ago, Gus said: They told Buchanan the wrong weight class. RAF told him he was wrestling at 225
Dark Energy Posted January 11 Posted January 11 Kind of an ugly look. Mass confusion about weights and weigh ins it seems. Haven’t yet tuned into one of these. But I am getting more curious. What I’m reading suggests I need to be very patient with this outfit.
Caveira Posted January 11 Author Posted January 11 (edited) I don’t think it is going to make it. They’re pulling strings to get names on all cards. MMA names. Old people. Guys like henschel. He’s great. he’s tough as nails But they’re grabbing guys/names like him imo because of his podcast audience. Smart move but it doesn’t feel like it has longevity. I think dake called out “ufc guys” to come try freestyle. I just dunno How long will people enjoy matchups like nato desanto. Or lugo v someone… or mocco v someone else. meh And obviously my long standing love for bo totally going out of his way to help the sport tonight. For the second event in a row Is there literally zero support for raf for current or psu folks who have graduated. With the deepest best room in the solar system you think someone would come out and support the sport…. All the other big schools graduates are Edited January 11 by Caveira
Tyler Posted January 11 Posted January 11 While he’s not a PSU graduate, didn’t Jake Varner wrestle PD3?
Caveira Posted January 11 Author Posted January 11 Stole this post from fb. To lazy to type It wasn’t just Yoel that Bo turned down- he was also offered Pat Downey to defend his belt. Pat said yes and Bo declined! Bo was schedule to face Yoel at RAF 04. Yoel showed up and made weight but Bo pulled out. So Yoel faced pat on short notice. skip to raf 05, Yoel tried to make weight again 3 weeks later since Bo pulled out before but missed. So Bo refused to fight Yoel. So, Pat Downy was left without an opponent when Yoel was given Pat’s opponent. The obvious choice is now Bo vs Pat for the belt- since both made weight at 205. Guess what, Bo still said no. The man let down RAF two events in a row. Period . Source: Pat Downey himself who said he was offered and accepted and Bo turned it down
BAC Posted January 11 Posted January 11 (edited) On 1/5/2026 at 4:46 PM, Caveira said: with lineups like this Is raf sustainable???? Are these matchups going to grow the fan / ppv base? Raf06 headliner. Cejudo v faber. Cejudo 38 year old. Oly champ. MMA champ etc. zero bad things to say about him. He’s amazing. faber 46 year old. NCAA qualifier blood round guy. State champ I think. MMA champ. Nothing bad to say about him. He’s amazing. is this sustainable as a headliner? Is this the type of matchup they think makes this successful? Two old dudes in a fs match? Last raf was a young dude (bo nickal) against a grandpa from Cuba where bo pulled out. it seems like they’re trying to pull “name recognition” from places to get viewers but will this work? Old mma guys vs older mma guys in ufc is not sustainable either imo…… at least if you have to pay for it it is not. how many subscribers does fox nation have … google says 2 - 2.5 million? Is that accurate? Are they dependent on people buying Fox nation? I have been pretty critical of how RAF has approached this but I think they are generally on point with the ex-MMA matchups, as it’s the most viable path forward, at least in the short term, given the mistakes made to date. But I agree it has long term sustainably issues. Start with the irrefutable proposition that merely putting the best freestylers out there, without more, won’t be sustainable. We know that because there’s rows of empty seats in the ACTUAL world championships every year. It just is not a big enough audience. If you aren’t willing to do anything bold to tinker with the product to make it more interesting — and RAF unfortunately isn’t — then you need to cross market. The WWE crowd was a potentially viable option but then Hulk died, so unless they have a credible way back in, they need people that draw eyes. They can and do go after guys like Basset, Henschel and Downey due to their social media following, but that only gets you so far. Enter MMA. There is an untapped market of (1) MMA fans who don’t really understand wrestling except to the extent it is relevant to MMA, and (2) guys who wrestled in high school, liked it but didn’t wrestle in college, and ended up following MMA as an adult rather than freestyle. In that second category alone, I would guess there are at least 10 ex high school wrestlers following MMA for every one ex high school wrestler following freestyle. That’s your market, at least initially. Here is an article about yesterday’s RAF from a general news source (and note how all the discussion is about MMA, and how one of the best freestylers in the world, Zahid, does not even get a mention): https://sports.yahoo.com/wrestling/breaking-news/live/raf-5-live-results-round-by-round-updates-for-colby-covington-vs-luke-rockhold-wrestling-card-060046369.html If your point is that this approach is still not sustainable long term, I agree, absent changes. They may have VC money now but it won’t last forever. They should try partner with either a MMA organization or the UFC or it’s all going to be washed up retired 40+ guys who MMA fans will pay to see once, but maybe not twice as those guys don’t have much to offer.They have a good media partner but they need to take risks right now and without that I agree it will fizzle out. Moreover, RAF needs to be using this opportunity in the meantime to more boldly revise the presentation of freestyle wrestling, including rules, scoring, dynamics, teams, incentives, handicaps, etc, to capture and retain those MMA viewers as freestyle fans, especially if there is no MMA partnership forthcoming. I don’t see these things happening, which is frustrating. Without more courage from RAF leadership, it’s RPW all over again. Edited January 11 by BAC
Threadkilla Posted January 11 Posted January 11 (edited) 21 hours ago, Caveira said: 3 people missed weight. Bo nickal is to chicken to wrestle grandpa at +7 lbs over. Raf5 is a disaster. How do they keep this going. Bo has a little more to lose than Covington, Downey or Rockhold etc. Bo is on the active roster and a main card UFC guy wrestling a guy that missed weight by 7 lb who likely had to cut to get there. Bo walks around about 210 he made 205. Romero weighed in at 212 and may have been 230 when the match started. Why would he take a chance of getting injured and possibly missing out on a 150 to $300,000 paycheck when he fights again. All these dorks saying he's a pussy he's scared he's chicken. Bo made weight, Romero didn't. He did not contract to wrestle Downey. Screw Colby and Luke and Izzy for being bitches Edited January 11 by Threadkilla
Caveira Posted January 11 Author Posted January 11 6 minutes ago, Threadkilla said: Bo walks around about 210 he made 205. A duck is a duck twice. The booing from the fans when he was winning on stage says it all
Caveira Posted January 11 Author Posted January 11 24 minutes ago, Threadkilla said: Bo has a little more to lose than Covington, Downey or Rockhold etc. Bo is on the active roster and a main card UFC guy wrestling a guy that missed weight by 7 lb who likely had to cut to get there. Bo walks around about 210 he made 205. Romero weighed in at 212 and may have been 230 when the match started. Why would he take a chance of getting injured and possibly missing out on a 150 to $300,000 paycheck when he fights again. All these dorks saying he's a pussy he's scared he's chicken. Bo made weight, Romero didn't. He did not contract to wrestle Downey. Screw Colby and Luke and Izzy for being bitches They also offered him a title fight against pd3 which he ducked yesterday too. if your to fragile and worried about your ufc pay day don’t take the bill and duck 3 bouts. Also I would stop making videos whining about how hard my weight cut is if it isn’t.
WrestlingRash Posted January 11 Posted January 11 they are doing a much better job than I anticipated. they might actually make it work.
Lumps Pajamas Posted January 11 Posted January 11 (edited) often lurker, rare poster--- I've watched every single RAF event, last night was my least favorite, aside from the first which just seemed disorganised. From a nostalgia standpoint, I have loved getting to see JO, Desanto, Varner, heck Mocco last night. It also seems like the more mature wrestlers on the ticket seem to be having fun with it, which I enjoy watching... Not sure if they can make it, but I've enjoyed the events so far. Some of the schtick feels alittle WWE to me, but also okay, I'm getting to see Paris wrestling Wyatt... Let's go! I haven't missed a show yet... the entire thing is weird as hell, but I'm not gonna lie, I've been entertained... Viva la RAF! ha ha cheers. Edited January 11 by Lumps Pajamas
Threadkilla Posted January 12 Posted January 12 7 hours ago, Caveira said: They also offered him a title fight against pd3 which he ducked yesterday too. if your to fragile and worried about your ufc pay day don’t take the bill and duck 3 bouts. Also I would stop making videos whining about how hard my weight cut is if it isn’t. His weight cut to the UFC is 25 lbs to 185. Bo made weight at 205.
Caveira Posted January 12 Author Posted January 12 (edited) 10 hours ago, Threadkilla said: His weight cut to the UFC is 25 lbs to 185. Bo made weight at 205. The scale said 222.6. You said he walks around at 210. He ducks way too many people while at the same time calling out to too many people he won’t fight. He ducked 3 people in two raf cards he ducked a 48 year old twice Who was then teched by Buchanan. Downy didn’t miss weight and he ducked him too Edited January 12 by Caveira
BarSeries Posted January 12 Posted January 12 On 1/5/2026 at 4:05 PM, Antitroll2828 said: Bishoff said in a recent interview that they’ve made 4x the expected projected revenue so far so something seems to be going right. If true, that's amazing!!! I've got no problem with RAF bringing in the older guys. The key is these are well known guys that will bring eyes to RAF to help make it succeed.
Anthony Severino New York Military Academy, New York Class of 2027 Committed to Army West Point Projected Weight: 141, 149
Zach Rehak Thomas Jefferson, Pennsylvania Class of 2027 Committed to Seton Hill Projected Weight: 125
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