Equal Opportunity > Equal Outcome.

[mspart]

4 minutes ago, red viking said:

If wingers were in full control, there wouldn't be any poor people, right? 

The left wingers have been in control  for eons and the poor have gotten poorer and more added to their ranks.   More D control is going to resolve that?

If you can keep a generation uneducated, then that generation and on can be controlled much more easily.    Which party wants to have control of your life?  Ds with their equity demands or Rs with their opportunity demands?

mspart

[wrestlingguy]

17 hours ago, Caveira said:

Why do teachers get coddled.   They want to not be reviewed.  They want tenure.  They get freaking mental health days once a month and days to “clean” their rooms lol.  The system is a joke and they are not educating.  I’m not for eliminating schools but no one in ctu or democrat leadership admits they suck at educating.   They are not working to fix shit.   They spend more time telling kids about gender ideology than teaching actual skills required in life.  

I have said this before but I will say it again. There are many reasons that the public schools are failing. None of them include lack of funding($17K+ per student here in KS). Just a few of the many reasons below.

1. No child left behind(one of the reasons why some high schoolers can't read)

2. Lack of Actual Parenting(schools are not your childcare)

3. No student accountability (teachers are not allowed to punish kids for bad behavior and instead are encouraged to use positive reinforcement. That doesn't work. Most kids don't care about rewards, stickers, pizza parties, etc)

4. Qualified teachers are burned out because they are being asked to do too much. They can't educate properly if they are too busy trying to act as an educator, counselor, parent, etc

[mspart]

1 hour ago, wrestlingguy said:

I have said this before but I will say it again. There are many reasons that the public schools are failing. None of them include lack of funding($17K+ per student here in KS). Just a few of the many reasons below.

1. No child left behind(one of the reasons why some high schoolers can't read)

2. Lack of Actual Parenting(schools are not your childcare)

3. No student accountability (teachers are not allowed to punish kids for bad behavior and instead are encouraged to use positive reinforcement. That doesn't work. Most kids don't care about rewards, stickers, pizza parties, etc)

4. Qualified teachers are burned out because they are being asked to do too much. They can't educate properly if they are too busy trying to act as an educator, counselor, parent, etc

I can't argue with any of this. 

mspart

[ThreePointTakedown]

19 hours ago, Caveira said:

Then cap the tax $ we give the schools.     And you’re correct.  These gang kids holistically will never get better.  The parents don’t give a shit.   They haven’t since the 60s or 70s.   I think 1 in 3 have a father in the picture.  Maybe less.    They’re in gangs at a young age.  The adults are on drugs.   
 

Key trends

Significant spending increase: Between fiscal years 2018 and 2022, instructional and operational spending per student increased by 48% and 52%, respectively.

How can you honestly type something like that? I’m not being sarcastic. With all the information of redlining and the effects of white flight that we know of and have easy access to over the years. How can you be so cold and mean when talking about potentially helping KIDS that are need of the bare minimum of education? Lumping them all as ‘gang kids’. 
Mu sister taught K in an inner city schools for 15 years. The kids are just regular kids. The parents that belong to a disenfranchised group tend to not encourage the importance of education. It’s because of the decades of your similar attitude reflected back to them by political leaders for generations. 

 

Please, please, before you start thinking about 'victim mentality' or a slogan about bootstraps. Please, just consider that this problem is decades or centuries in the making. And calling kids, and they are kids, 'gang kids' is not helpful and could lead one to believe that no matter what solutions to this problem is suggested that you would be against it because of the bias you are boldly announcing with that phrasing.

 

One black president does not mean that the problem has been solved or even adequately addressed. No one is attacking YOU for any reason. This is just to let you know that there is, likely, information you and, until recently, I have not been exposed to. 

 

Nothing is being taken away from you if/when an historically neglected population is offered a helping hand out of the hole, we ALL put them in. 

[JimmySpeaks]

2 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

How can you honestly type something like that? I’m not being sarcastic. With all the information of redlining and the effects of white flight that we know of and have easy access to over the years. How can you be so cold and mean when talking about potentially helping KIDS that are need of the bare minimum of education? Lumping them all as ‘gang kids’. 
Mu sister taught K in an inner city schools for 15 years. The kids are just regular kids. The parents that belong to a disenfranchised group tend to not encourage the importance of education. It’s because of the decades of your similar attitude reflected back to them by political leaders for generations. 

 

Please, please, before you start thinking about 'victim mentality' or a slogan about bootstraps. Please, just consider that this problem is decades or centuries in the making. And calling kids, and they are kids, 'gang kids' is not helpful and could lead one to believe that no matter what solutions to this problem is suggested that you would be against it because of the bias you are boldly announcing with that phrasing.

 

One black president does not mean that the problem has been solved or even adequately addressed. No one is attacking YOU for any reason. This is just to let you know that there is, likely, information you and, until recently, I have not been exposed to. 

 

Nothing is being taken away from you if/when an historically neglected population is offered a helping hand out of the hole, we ALL put them in. 

Please elaborate on how any of us on here put them in a hole. I can’t wait to hear this one. 

[JimmySpeaks]

4 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

How can you honestly type something like that? I’m not being sarcastic. With all the information of redlining and the effects of white flight that we know of and have easy access to over the years. How can you be so cold and mean when talking about potentially helping KIDS that are need of the bare minimum of education? Lumping them all as ‘gang kids’. 
Mu sister taught K in an inner city schools for 15 years. The kids are just regular kids. The parents that belong to a disenfranchised group tend to not encourage the importance of education. It’s because of the decades of your similar attitude reflected back to them by political leaders for generations. 

 

Please, please, before you start thinking about 'victim mentality' or a slogan about bootstraps. Please, just consider that this problem is decades or centuries in the making. And calling kids, and they are kids, 'gang kids' is not helpful and could lead one to believe that no matter what solutions to this problem is suggested that you would be against it because of the bias you are boldly announcing with that phrasing.

 

One black president does not mean that the problem has been solved or even adequately addressed. No one is attacking YOU for any reason. This is just to let you know that there is, likely, information you and, until recently, I have not been exposed to. 

 

Nothing is being taken away from you if/when an historically neglected population is offered a helping hand out of the hole, we ALL put them in. 

Also please elaborate on the neglect these inner city kids receive from their fathers which has a far greater impact than anything that happened two centuries ago.  

[Caveira]

33 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Mu sister taught K in an inner city schools for 15 years.

My cousin was a dancer.   My neighbor was very  tall and this guy I know once knew a teacher.    He forgot the teachers name but that’s not relevant.  
 

I live in the inner city.  And I grew up in the inner city.  So farking what. 
 

None of that helps you make me understand why less than 20% can read.  They don’t need more $ if the kids don’t want to learn.  Or if their parents don’t give a shit.  We’ve thrown more $ at them for 70 years.  I’m not surprised you didn’t read the stat that we threw a ton more per head count at them in the last few years.  Guess what.  It doesn’t help.  Throwing money at kids who don’t show up or want to learn is not good policy or good use of my tax money.  Give vouchers to the 20% who show up to learn to go to good schools.  Let the 80% eat generic fruit loops and go gang bang or whatever it is they want to do besides learn to read.  

Edited 17 hours ago by Caveira

[ThreePointTakedown]

20 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Also please elaborate on the neglect these inner city kids receive from their fathers which has a far greater impact than anything that happened two centuries ago.  

I never mentioned anything about the participation or lack there of from fathers. Can you help me understand where you are coming from by offering up some information about that comment and your point of view?

[mspart]

Public education's goal in the first place was to give everyone equality of opportunity.   We can see now that this is not happening with the public schools.   What do we want the public schools to do:  Educate people so they can be productive in society  or keep the illiterate so they have to be wards of the state for the rest of their lives?

mspart

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, ThreePointTakedown said:

I never mentioned anything about the participation or lack there of from fathers. Can you help me understand where you are coming from by offering up some information about that comment and your point of view?

You’re claiming that “we ALL” have/are causing the results of poor school performance in our inner cities.  I’m claiming the lack of fathers in the home is a far bigger reason than anything else. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/study-black-dads-more-involved-in-childrenss-lives-than-other-groups/

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf

Here is an article and data to show that inner city black and Latino fathers are more involved with their kids than we all thought or are told. 
 

 

[JimmySpeaks]

8 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/study-black-dads-more-involved-in-childrenss-lives-than-other-groups/

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf

Here is an article and data to show that inner city black and Latino fathers are more involved with their kids than we all thought or are told. 
 

 

I’m not sure what either of those links prove. Please elaborate on what you’re trying to get across. Nothing I saw says fathers in the home isn’t a concern. 
2006-2010 really? 

Edited 17 hours ago by JimmySpeaks

[El Luchador]

2 hours ago, red viking said:

If wingers were in full control, there wouldn't be any poor people, right? 

American poor are in the top 1% in the history of the world. American poor are in the top 10% of the world today. Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth, socialism is misery shared equally, except by the ruling class 

[JimmySpeaks]

6 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/study-black-dads-more-involved-in-childrenss-lives-than-other-groups/

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf

Here is an article and data to show that inner city black and Latino fathers are more involved with their kids than we all thought or are told. 
 

 

You still haven’t explained how I or anyone else on here has caused poor performance in our inner city schools like you claim we have.  I’ll keep waiting for your explanation. 

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, El Luchador said:

American poor are in the top 1% in the history of the world. American poor are in the top 10% of the world today. Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth, socialism is misery shared equally, except by the ruling class 

This .  Even the poor here are rich. It’s why everyone wants in here and will risk doing it unlawfully. 

[WrestlingRasta]

18 hours ago, Caveira said:

Based on what Jimmy said… I said fair.    @WrestlingRasta      Maybe I’m mad less than 20% of kids can read effectively in cps.   What’s your solution instead of bagging on me bagging on the teachers ?   Is 1:5 good?   

1) your numbers are social media agenda driven BS, intended for blind sheep to run with and parrot.  Can you cherry pick this district or that area to find those numbers…of course.  But as for totality of American students across the country your parroting is not repeating accurate information. You can spend the next couple of hours finding social media posts to copy if you want to try and combat that but I’d suggest you not waste your time, it’s not convincing.  
 

2) I’ve said in similar discussions on this board the #1 reason for performance decline is parents, and not at all a country full of teachers who don’t care, as you describe.  For one, far too many parents these days take the easy route instead of the difficult route.  Because allowing kids to play their games and thumb around in Instagram and TikTok is a lot easier than doing the hard work, disciplining their kids to be accountable for their learning, engaging in activities that enhance their learning, getting them outside for exercise, etc.  And secondly, more and more parents are setting bad examples for their kids who are sucking up what they see their parents doing.  For example, if a parent is spending hours upon hours everyday thumbing social media sites so they can copy and paste for gotcha moments to complete strangers on the internet 1) what kind of example is that setting for the kids and 2) how are they holding the kids accountable for their learning, engaging in activities with them to enhance their learning, etc.  

As I said, there are definitely a few bad apples in every bunch.  But your post wasn’t talking about a few bad apples, your post pointed at the profession of teachers, and it’s bulls**t

[ThreePointTakedown]

14 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

You’re claiming that “we ALL” have/are causing the results of poor school performance in our inner cities.  I’m claiming the lack of fathers in the home is a far bigger reason than anything else. 

If you are making a counter point, please back it up with information or evidence? If not its just a feeling(emotion) and those are not valid in a debate. 

 

When I say 'we' I mean all of us in society. Both past and present. You've done it by knowing that there is a problem and not helping which is understandable because there are WAY TOO many problems for you to address personally OR seeing the problem and demonizing the people involved, making it seem as if they are unworthy of help/support OR not knowing about the problem(again that's not as bad because of the total tonnage of problems in this country) OR purposefully avoiding learning anything about problems to ensure your plausible deniability. 

I've done all these things. And as much as I would like to help I can only do so much. But having conversations with people that call them 'gang kids' is infuriating. Because it doesn't help and could actively convince others(who might be inclined to help) to not help. If you don't want them to be helped, ok. But at least be honest as to why? Because they are kids and kids deserve our compassion regardless of their situation in life. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

6 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

You still haven’t explained how I or anyone else on here has caused poor performance in our inner city schools like you claim we have.  I’ll keep waiting for your explanation. 

The rhetoric you a currently use to talk about this group and the disinformation you are spreading about 'fathers' is actively convincing others to take up the same banner. That banner prevents compassion and sympathy for people that need help. Your place of privilege gives you the opportunity to demonize a group you feel as 'less than' you and undeserving of support.

THAT is what you are doing to keep them in a hole that we all agree, they are in. 

 

Explain that away? 

[WrestlingRasta]

18 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

My bad. You did say fair not that you agreed with me.  I wouldn’t worry to much about what Mr Feels (Rasta) says as he consider himself the moral compass on this site.  He’s never been wrong sitting up in his fence judging people. 

The only thing I’ve said here directed toward you was I agree 100% with your article.  And your reply to me was quoting my post that is the complete opposite of ‘sitting on the fence”

But please, tell us more about who’s gotten under whose skin .  I look forward to reading your four or five times responding to this one post. 

18 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

I do this as much (probably more) as anyone on here and you tell me it’s bullshit.  You’re such a PHONY 

Yes I can see that. Talk to anyone experienced in human behavior and they will tell you spending hours a day on an anonymous message board acting like a child just screams happiness and enjoying life.
.  I think you and RV secretly sit around the campfire together.  
 

Have fun! 

[Caveira]

14 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

1) your numbers are social media agenda driven BS, intended for blind sheep to run with and parrot.  Can you cherry pick this district or that area to find those numbers…of course.  But as for totality of American students across the country your parroting is not repeating accurate information. You can spend the next couple of hours finding social media posts to copy if you want to try and combat that but I’d suggest you not waste your time, it’s not convincing.  
 

2) I’ve said in similar discussions on this board the #1 reason for performance decline is parents, and not at all a country full of teachers who don’t care, as you describe.  For one, far too many parents these days take the easy route instead of the difficult route.  Because allowing kids to play their games and thumb around in Instagram and TikTok is a lot easier than doing the hard work, disciplining their kids to be accountable for their learning, engaging in activities that enhance their learning, getting them outside for exercise, etc.  And secondly, more and more parents are setting bad examples for their kids who are sucking up what they see their parents doing.  For example, if a parent is spending hours upon hours everyday thumbing social media sites so they can copy and paste for gotcha moments to complete strangers on the internet 1) what kind of example is that setting for the kids and 2) how are they holding the kids accountable for their learning, engaging in activities with them to enhance their learning, etc.  

As I said, there are definitely a few bad apples in every bunch.  But your post wasn’t talking about a few bad apples, your post pointed at the profession of teachers, and it’s bulls**t

I’ve said in different pockets in different threads In no particular order.  It’s parents.  2/3 of poor black Chicago kids don’t have fathers in the house.  The ctu which is a reflection of the t part of the u.    And blue politicians don’t give a shit 

 

I tend to agree on the parental part.  I grew up poor in the inner city… on the south side in a crap neighborhood and my parents would have kicked the daylight out of me (and did) if I got bad grades.   I don’t know what holy hell they would have done to me if I was truant.    The rule in my house.  Less than a B in any class for any reason.  Grounded until it was a B or better.   No excuses.  All summer.   Tough shit.   A whole semester.   Tough shit.   For the rest of your school life.  Tough shit.  End of story.  

Edited 17 hours ago by Caveira

[mspart]

52 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

1) your numbers are social media agenda driven BS, intended for blind sheep to run with and parrot.  Can you cherry pick this district or that area to find those numbers…of course.  But as for totality of American students across the country your parroting is not repeating accurate information. You can spend the next couple of hours finding social media posts to copy if you want to try and combat that but I’d suggest you not waste your time, it’s not convincing.  
 

2) I’ve said in similar discussions on this board the #1 reason for performance decline is parents, and not at all a country full of teachers who don’t care, as you describe.  For one, far too many parents these days take the easy route instead of the difficult route.  Because allowing kids to play their games and thumb around in Instagram and TikTok is a lot easier than doing the hard work, disciplining their kids to be accountable for their learning, engaging in activities that enhance their learning, getting them outside for exercise, etc.  And secondly, more and more parents are setting bad examples for their kids who are sucking up what they see their parents doing.  For example, if a parent is spending hours upon hours everyday thumbing social media sites so they can copy and paste for gotcha moments to complete strangers on the internet 1) what kind of example is that setting for the kids and 2) how are they holding the kids accountable for their learning, engaging in activities with them to enhance their learning, etc.  

 

Agree with this. 

mspart

[JimmySpeaks]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

The only thing I’ve said here directed toward you was I agree 100% with your article.  And your reply to me was quoting my post that is the complete opposite of ‘sitting on the fence”

But please, tell us more about who’s gotten under whose skin .  I look forward to reading your four or five times responding to this one post. 

Yes I can see that. Talk to anyone experienced in human behavior and they will tell you spending hours a day on an anonymous message board acting like a child just screams happiness and enjoying life.
.  I think you and RV secretly sit around the campfire together.  
 

Have fun! 

It’s amazing that people are too stupid to realize it takes under 20 seconds to make a post on here.  Let’s see, 20 comments x 20 seconds each is how close to “hours a day”.  Again you’re a clown. 

Edited 14 hours ago by JimmySpeaks

[JimmySpeaks]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

The rhetoric you a currently use to talk about this group and the disinformation you are spreading about 'fathers' is actively convincing others to take up the same banner. That banner prevents compassion and sympathy for people that need help. Your place of privilege gives you the opportunity to demonize a group you feel as 'less than' you and undeserving of support.

THAT is what you are doing to keep them in a hole that we all agree, they are in. 

 

Explain that away? 

Please tell me about my place of privilege.  Oh you’re right I did have a father stay in the family.  So did my kids. And so do their kids.  Yep very privileged to have a dad. 

[JimmySpeaks]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

If you are making a counter point, please back it up with information or evidence? If not its just a feeling(emotion) and those are not valid in a debate. 

 

When I say 'we' I mean all of us in society. Both past and present. You've done it by knowing that there is a problem and not helping which is understandable because there are WAY TOO many problems for you to address personally OR seeing the problem and demonizing the people involved, making it seem as if they are unworthy of help/support OR not knowing about the problem(again that's not as bad because of the total tonnage of problems in this country) OR purposefully avoiding learning anything about problems to ensure your plausible deniability. 

I've done all these things. And as much as I would like to help I can only do so much. But having conversations with people that call them 'gang kids' is infuriating. Because it doesn't help and could actively convince others(who might be inclined to help) to not help. If you don't want them to be helped, ok. But at least be honest as to why? Because they are kids and kids deserve our compassion regardless of their situation in life. 

I will when you actually give some evidence and not opinions.  I’m a guy that donates my time to help,people in need instead of just talking about it like you do.  You’d know that if you paid attention to things other than your own warped agenda. 

Edited 14 hours ago by JimmySpeaks

[JimmySpeaks]

2 hours ago, Caveira said:

I’ve said in different pockets in different threads In no particular order.  It’s parents.  2/3 of poor black Chicago kids don’t have fathers in the house.  The ctu which is a reflection of the t part of the u.    And blue politicians don’t give a shit 

 

I tend to agree on the parental part.  I grew up poor in the inner city… on the south side in a crap neighborhood and my parents would have kicked the daylight out of me (and did) if I got bad grades.   I don’t know what holy hell they would have done to me if I was truant.    The rule in my house.  Less than a B in any class for any reason.  Grounded until it was a B or better.   No excuses.  All summer.   Tough shit.   A whole semester.   Tough shit.   For the rest of your school life.  Tough shit.  End of story.  

According to That takedown dude you’re still privileged.