What about Mamdani?

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, 1032004 said:

The whole country?

Their governments certainly do 

[uncle bernard]

23 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Ya. Sure he does.  

Seems far more committed to it than you are considering you want him to denounce a phrase.

He's said he doesn't use or agree with the use of the term, but doesn't believe it's the place of the mayor to police speech.

Do you think politicians should be policing speech? Please limit your answer to yes or no.

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, uncle bernard said:

Seems far more committed to it than you are considering you want him to denounce a phrase.

He's said he doesn't use or agree with the use of the term, but doesn't believe it's the place of the mayor to police speech.

Do you think politicians should be policing speech? Please limit your answer to yes or no.

Politicians should not.  A socialist will. 

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Their governments certainly do 

Wait, are you saying there's a difference between governments and their people? 

Wouldn't that mean you could criticize the government of Israel without criticizing the Jewish people as a whole? I'm glad you finally figured this out!

[JimmySpeaks]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

Seems far more committed to it than you are considering you want him to denounce a phrase.

He's said he doesn't use or agree with the use of the term, but doesn't believe it's the place of the mayor to police speech.

Do you think politicians should be policing speech? Please limit your answer to yes or no.

He is against a Jewish state.  

[uncle bernard]

Just now, JimmySpeaks said:

Politicians should not.  A socialist will. 

And yet, the socialist is the one who is refusing to do so despite your demands. How does that work?

[uncle bernard]

Just now, JimmySpeaks said:

He is against a Jewish state.  

Yeah, ethnostates are bad.

He's been very clear that he believes in Israel's right to exist as a state with equal rights. Do you disagree with that?

[jross]

Strike 2

Hidden amongst valid concerns about communal identity and fear due to Islamophobia, is Zohran's support for the Holy Land 5.

Lyrics

As-salaam ʿalaykum
As-salaam ʿalaykum
As-salaam ʿalaykumVerse 1:
Thinking of my fui [aunt], her hijab on her head
What will she face? What will be done and said?
Fear
Fear
It never ends
A glance, a word, who knows what it will portend
She doesn’t walk outside, doesn’t ride the train,
‘Cause she’s terrified of the coming pain
From the words, looks, grabs, and shoves, man
She knows not who to trust and
She lives at home
Work
In the car
The fear grows inside her
Only feels safe when andar [inside]
Fresh air across the boundary  Understand this, then you understand me
Thoughts never far from the safety of my family
With all of us now cast as the enemy
By whose homeland? In the name of whose security?Chorus:
Salaam
Salaam
(I-I-I-I)
Salaam
Call up my baba
Call up my mama
Call up my boys, say  Verse 2:
Salaam to you, don’t get in your car
We’ll stand with you, that’s who we are
If register’s true, we’ll be right there
I’ll be Muslim too, I’ll share your fear
But to be honest, he is not America  This whole ban, it is not who we are
We hold our freedoms oh so very dear
We will never let this happen here
God damn, whose man is this though?
With insufficient history of all my people
The lists even have month-old babies ID’d as terrorists
All a flight risk now, we suspicious
And I’m feeling just so done with this
President and all his precedents  Saying,
Assalam aleikum
Me llamo Zohran
Raised in and by this city, and I am Muslim
My love to the Holy Land 5, you better look ‘em up
Made it through N SEERS, yaar, ain’t that enough?

Chorus
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?  No ban, no wall, say build it up, we’ll make it fall
No ban, no wall, say build it up, we’ll make it fall  We’ll close bodegas, park the cabs
No halal food in your hands
We’ll close bodegas, park the cabs
No halal food in your lands
In your land, in your land
No halal food in your lands  Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?  

 

Holy Land 5?

The Hamas Networks in America: A Short History

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU10/20240515/117305/HHRG-118-JU10-20240515-SD001.pdf / page 11

Faced with two conflicting needs, the participants opted for a two-pronged approach that differentiated between its internal and external strategy. Within the Muslim community, agreed the participants, Committee should maintain its support for Hamas undeterred, engaging in various activities to aid the organization. “In the coming stage, the most important thing we can provide,” said one speaker, “is to support Jihad in Palestine. I believe it is the only way if we want to bring the goals of the [Oslo peace] accord to fail.”26 Fundraising among local Muslim communities was immediately identified as one of the key activities the group should have engaged in. The newly created Holy Land Foundation, in fact, was to collect funds for Hamas while giving the impression that it was destining them to orphans and needy children. “We give the Islamists $100,000 and we give others 5,000,” stated Abu Baker, outlining how HLF could maintain the semblance of being a charitable organization and avoid scrutiny from authorities. HLF, he argued, needed to “maintain a balance,” avoiding attracting attention while “stay[ing] on its legal track as far as charitable projects are concerned without going after a sentiment which could harm the Foundation legally.”27 Using these expedients, argue U.S. authorities, HLF officials collected and funneled to Hamas more than 12 million dollars until the charity was shut down in December 2001.28 At the same time, argued meeting participants, the Committee should have engaged in an extensive effort to educate the American Muslim community, convincing them that the peace accords harmed the Palestinians and that Hamas was the only force worth supporting.

[JimmySpeaks]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

And yet, the socialist is the one who is refusing to do so despite your demands. How does that work?

Because he picks and chooses what he deems free speech?  

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Wait, are you saying there's a difference between governments and their people? 

Wouldn't that mean you could criticize the government of Israel without criticizing the Jewish people as a whole? I'm glad you finally figured this out!

Got heem!

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, uncle bernard said:

Yeah, ethnostates are bad.

He's been very clear that he believes in Israel's right to exist as a state with equal rights. Do you disagree with that?

Wrong. He believes Isarael can have a homeland. 

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Because he picks and chooses what he deems free speech?  

That would be easy to prove. Can you give an example of him being against free speech? If you can, I will condemn his hypocrisy with you.

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, jross said:

Strike 2

Hidden amongst valid concerns about communal identity and fear due to Islamophobia, is Zohran's support for the Holy Land 5.

Lyrics

As-salaam ʿalaykum
As-salaam ʿalaykum
As-salaam ʿalaykumVerse 1:
Thinking of my fui [aunt], her hijab on her head
What will she face? What will be done and said?
Fear
Fear
It never ends
A glance, a word, who knows what it will portend
She doesn’t walk outside, doesn’t ride the train,
‘Cause she’s terrified of the coming pain
From the words, looks, grabs, and shoves, man
She knows not who to trust and
She lives at home
Work
In the car
The fear grows inside her
Only feels safe when andar [inside]
Fresh air across the boundary  Understand this, then you understand me
Thoughts never far from the safety of my family
With all of us now cast as the enemy
By whose homeland? In the name of whose security?Chorus:
Salaam
Salaam
(I-I-I-I)
Salaam
Call up my baba
Call up my mama
Call up my boys, say  Verse 2:
Salaam to you, don’t get in your car
We’ll stand with you, that’s who we are
If register’s true, we’ll be right there
I’ll be Muslim too, I’ll share your fear
But to be honest, he is not America  This whole ban, it is not who we are
We hold our freedoms oh so very dear
We will never let this happen here
God damn, whose man is this though?
With insufficient history of all my people
The lists even have month-old babies ID’d as terrorists
All a flight risk now, we suspicious
And I’m feeling just so done with this
President and all his precedents  Saying,
Assalam aleikum
Me llamo Zohran
Raised in and by this city, and I am Muslim
My love to the Holy Land 5, you better look ‘em up
Made it through N SEERS, yaar, ain’t that enough?

Chorus
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?  No ban, no wall, say build it up, we’ll make it fall
No ban, no wall, say build it up, we’ll make it fall  We’ll close bodegas, park the cabs
No halal food in your hands
We’ll close bodegas, park the cabs
No halal food in your lands
In your land, in your land
No halal food in your lands  Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?  

 

Holy Land 5?

The Hamas Networks in America: A Short History

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU10/20240515/117305/HHRG-118-JU10-20240515-SD001.pdf / page 11

Faced with two conflicting needs, the participants opted for a two-pronged approach that differentiated between its internal and external strategy. Within the Muslim community, agreed the participants, Committee should maintain its support for Hamas undeterred, engaging in various activities to aid the organization. “In the coming stage, the most important thing we can provide,” said one speaker, “is to support Jihad in Palestine. I believe it is the only way if we want to bring the goals of the [Oslo peace] accord to fail.”26 Fundraising among local Muslim communities was immediately identified as one of the key activities the group should have engaged in. The newly created Holy Land Foundation, in fact, was to collect funds for Hamas while giving the impression that it was destining them to orphans and needy children. “We give the Islamists $100,000 and we give others 5,000,” stated Abu Baker, outlining how HLF could maintain the semblance of being a charitable organization and avoid scrutiny from authorities. HLF, he argued, needed to “maintain a balance,” avoiding attracting attention while “stay[ing] on its legal track as far as charitable projects are concerned without going after a sentiment which could harm the Foundation legally.”27 Using these expedients, argue U.S. authorities, HLF officials collected and funneled to Hamas more than 12 million dollars until the charity was shut down in December 2001.28 At the same time, argued meeting participants, the Committee should have engaged in an extensive effort to educate the American Muslim community, convincing them that the peace accords harmed the Palestinians and that Hamas was the only force worth supporting.

If the worst he has said is a rap lyric from 2017, I think it’s safe to say he isn’t anti-Semitic.  Thanks for confirming!

[JimmySpeaks]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

That would be easy to prove. Can you give an example of him being against free speech? If you can, I will condemn his hypocrisy with you.

Do think he doesn’t lie?  Ever? 

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, jross said:

Strike 2

Hidden amongst valid concerns about communal identity and fear due to Islamophobia, is Zohran's support for the Holy Land 5.

Lyrics

As-salaam ʿalaykum
As-salaam ʿalaykum
As-salaam ʿalaykumVerse 1:
Thinking of my fui [aunt], her hijab on her head
What will she face? What will be done and said?
Fear
Fear
It never ends
A glance, a word, who knows what it will portend
She doesn’t walk outside, doesn’t ride the train,
‘Cause she’s terrified of the coming pain
From the words, looks, grabs, and shoves, man
She knows not who to trust and
She lives at home
Work
In the car
The fear grows inside her
Only feels safe when andar [inside]
Fresh air across the boundary  Understand this, then you understand me
Thoughts never far from the safety of my family
With all of us now cast as the enemy
By whose homeland? In the name of whose security?Chorus:
Salaam
Salaam
(I-I-I-I)
Salaam
Call up my baba
Call up my mama
Call up my boys, say  Verse 2:
Salaam to you, don’t get in your car
We’ll stand with you, that’s who we are
If register’s true, we’ll be right there
I’ll be Muslim too, I’ll share your fear
But to be honest, he is not America  This whole ban, it is not who we are
We hold our freedoms oh so very dear
We will never let this happen here
God damn, whose man is this though?
With insufficient history of all my people
The lists even have month-old babies ID’d as terrorists
All a flight risk now, we suspicious
And I’m feeling just so done with this
President and all his precedents  Saying,
Assalam aleikum
Me llamo Zohran
Raised in and by this city, and I am Muslim
My love to the Holy Land 5, you better look ‘em up
Made it through N SEERS, yaar, ain’t that enough?

Chorus
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?  No ban, no wall, say build it up, we’ll make it fall
No ban, no wall, say build it up, we’ll make it fall  We’ll close bodegas, park the cabs
No halal food in your hands
We’ll close bodegas, park the cabs
No halal food in your lands
In your land, in your land
No halal food in your lands  Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?
Ain’t that enough?  

 

Holy Land 5?

The Hamas Networks in America: A Short History

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU10/20240515/117305/HHRG-118-JU10-20240515-SD001.pdf / page 11

Faced with two conflicting needs, the participants opted for a two-pronged approach that differentiated between its internal and external strategy. Within the Muslim community, agreed the participants, Committee should maintain its support for Hamas undeterred, engaging in various activities to aid the organization. “In the coming stage, the most important thing we can provide,” said one speaker, “is to support Jihad in Palestine. I believe it is the only way if we want to bring the goals of the [Oslo peace] accord to fail.”26 Fundraising among local Muslim communities was immediately identified as one of the key activities the group should have engaged in. The newly created Holy Land Foundation, in fact, was to collect funds for Hamas while giving the impression that it was destining them to orphans and needy children. “We give the Islamists $100,000 and we give others 5,000,” stated Abu Baker, outlining how HLF could maintain the semblance of being a charitable organization and avoid scrutiny from authorities. HLF, he argued, needed to “maintain a balance,” avoiding attracting attention while “stay[ing] on its legal track as far as charitable projects are concerned without going after a sentiment which could harm the Foundation legally.”27 Using these expedients, argue U.S. authorities, HLF officials collected and funneled to Hamas more than 12 million dollars until the charity was shut down in December 2001.28 At the same time, argued meeting participants, the Committee should have engaged in an extensive effort to educate the American Muslim community, convincing them that the peace accords harmed the Palestinians and that Hamas was the only force worth supporting.

The "Holy Land 5" is a group of 5 Palestinian Americans who were arrested and charged for donating to charities the government deemed terrorist-supporting. It was a highly contentious court case, ending in a hung jury in round 1, and then a conviction in round 2. It's considered a landmark case in extension of the US Surveillance State and Patriot Act Post-9/11.

It's still a highly contentious case, with lots of accusations of wrong-doing on the side of the government.

The "Holy Land 5" refers to five men who were convicted in 2008 for funneling $12.4 million to Hamas, which is designated by the United States as a foreign terrorist organization. The men were leaders of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF), which was once the largest Muslim charity in the United States. 

The convicted individuals are:

• Shukri Abu Baker
• Ghassan Elashi
• Mufid Abdulqader
• Abdulrahman Odeh
• Mohammad El-Mezain 

They were arrested in July 2004 and after a mistrial in 2007, were convicted in 2008 on various charges including conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization, providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization, and conspiracy to commit money laundering. Their sentences ranged from 15 to 65 years in prison. 

The case has been controversial. Critics argue that the convictions were based on questionable evidence and procedures, including the use of classified and hearsay evidence, and that the prosecution was politically motivated as part of the "War on Terror". Human Rights Watch has condemned the trial, according to Wikipedia. The defendants maintained that they were providing humanitarian aid to Palestinians on a "need, not creed" basis and were not aware of or supportive of Hamas's activities. 

However, the U.S. government argued that the HLF and its leaders actively supported Hamas under the guise of charitable giving, and that their actions directly aided the terrorist organization, according to the ADL. 

The case remains a point of contention, with ongoing debates about the role of charity, political affiliations, and the prosecution of terrorism in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There are campaigns advocating for the release of the remaining individuals in prison, while others continue to defend the convictions and the government's efforts to dismantle the network, says Canary Mission. 

[jross]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

If the worst he has said is a rap lyric from 2017, I think it’s safe to say he isn’t anti-Semitic.  Thanks for confirming!

Are you downplaying his support for a group that the US government classified as a terrorist organization?

[JimmySpeaks]

8 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Yeah, ethnostates are bad.

He's been very clear that he believes in Israel's right to exist as a state with equal rights. Do you disagree with that?

https://nypost.com/2025/06/05/us-news/zohran-mamdani-ripped-for-refusing-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-dangerous-point-of-view/

 

 

[uncle bernard]

3 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Do think he doesn’t lie?  Ever? 

Let me know when you find an example of him condemning speech somewhere. 

[uncle bernard]

Just now, jross said:

Are you downplaying his support for a group that the US government classified as a terrorist organization?

Much of the song is about how the government unfairly classifies non-terrorists as terrorists. The point is he thinks the charges are corrupt and that they aren't terrorists. See the lyric:

"The lists even have month-old babies ID’d as terrorists"

This is why it's important we continue to teach courses in the humanities to our students. Being able to read, and not just the literal surface of words, is extremely important.

[jross]

4 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

The "Holy Land 5" is a group of 5 Palestinian Americans who were arrested and charged for donating to charities the government deemed terrorist-supporting. It was a highly contentious court case, ending in a hung jury in round 1, and then a conviction in round 2. It's considered a landmark case in extension of the US Surveillance State and Patriot Act Post-9/11.

It's still a highly contentious case, with lots of accusations of wrong-doing on the side of the government.

The "Holy Land 5" refers to five men who were convicted in 2008 for funneling $12.4 million to Hamas, which is designated by the United States as a foreign terrorist organization. The men were leaders of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF), which was once the largest Muslim charity in the United States. 

The convicted individuals are:

• Shukri Abu Baker
• Ghassan Elashi
• Mufid Abdulqader
• Abdulrahman Odeh
• Mohammad El-Mezain 

They were arrested in July 2004 and after a mistrial in 2007, were convicted in 2008 on various charges including conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization, providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization, and conspiracy to commit money laundering. Their sentences ranged from 15 to 65 years in prison. 

The case has been controversial. Critics argue that the convictions were based on questionable evidence and procedures, including the use of classified and hearsay evidence, and that the prosecution was politically motivated as part of the "War on Terror". Human Rights Watch has condemned the trial, according to Wikipedia. The defendants maintained that they were providing humanitarian aid to Palestinians on a "need, not creed" basis and were not aware of or supportive of Hamas's activities. 

However, the U.S. government argued that the HLF and its leaders actively supported Hamas under the guise of charitable giving, and that their actions directly aided the terrorist organization, according to the ADL. 

The case remains a point of contention, with ongoing debates about the role of charity, political affiliations, and the prosecution of terrorism in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There are campaigns advocating for the release of the remaining individuals in prison, while others continue to defend the convictions and the government's efforts to dismantle the network, says Canary Mission. 

Rather than referring to someone else's opinion, I directly quoted Abu's spoken strategy.  Abu was one of the HF5.

Edited July 11 by jross

[uncle bernard]

3 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

https://nypost.com/2025/06/05/us-news/zohran-mamdani-ripped-for-refusing-to-recognize-israel-as-jewish-state-dangerous-point-of-view/

 

 

“I believe Israel has a right to exist,” he said.

“As a Jewish state?” the moderator pressed.

“As a state with equal rights,” Mamdani replied.

Which part of this do you disagree with?

[JimmySpeaks]

Just now, uncle bernard said:

Much of the song is about how the government unfairly classifies non-terrorists as terrorists. The point is he thinks the charges are corrupt and that they aren't terrorists. See the lyric:

"The lists even have month-old babies ID’d as terrorists"

This is why it's important we continue to teach courses in the humanities to our students. Being able to read, and not just the literal surface of words, is extremely important.

And that has what to do with him supporting Hamas ? That there are fewer terrorists that he supports on paper? 

[jross]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

Much of the song is about how the government unfairly classifies non-terrorists as terrorists. The point is he thinks the charges are corrupt and that they aren't terrorists. See the lyric:

"The lists even have month-old babies ID’d as terrorists"

This is why it's important we continue to teach courses in the humanities to our students. Being able to read, and not just the literal surface of words, is extremely important.

The valid opinions in the song overall do not dismiss the support for a terrorist organization.

[JimmySpeaks]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

“I believe Israel has a right to exist,” he said.

“As a Jewish state?” the moderator pressed.

“As a state with equal rights,” Mamdani replied.

Which part of this do you disagree with?

Keep reading. Get all of it. You left out where they continued to press him and what his response was. 

Edited July 11 by JimmySpeaks

[uncle bernard]

Just now, jross said:

The valid opinions in the song overall do not dismiss the support for a terrorist organization.

So at worst, he was a misguided aspiring rapper in his 20s.

I bet you had a lot of opinions in your 20s that you didn't in your 30s. People are allowed to grow up. The dude has been a paragon of professionalism during his entire campaign. There's a reason people are trying to tie him to stuff from years ago. He's given them nothing to smear him with in his actual campaign.