$4T Debt Limit Increase Proposal

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

There’s no ‘back up’. There are two planes in regular rotation. One flys, the other is going through its regular maintenance and servicing, then they rotate.  And so on.  This has been the way for decades. 

No there has to be a back up ready to go.  It was already staged at airforce base in Indiana when AF-1 got stuck in the mud in Illinois.  You don't leave the POTUS stuck somewhere for an hour much less half a day.  

Its for many of the same reasons they didn't take them off the plane at Willard.  They have a plan and a backup plan or two.  

Edited Thursday at 09:09 PM by ionel

[Offthemat]

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

No there has to be a back up ready to go

Everywhere they go. 

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Everywhere they go. 

What do you think? 

[Offthemat]

8 minutes ago, ionel said:

What do you think?

There’s a backup, alternate everywhere they go.  It’s like a motorcade in the sky, actually.  The vehicles, Secret Service, fighter jets, etc. 

bout forgot, also a decoy. 

Edited Thursday at 09:28 PM by Offthemat

[WrestlingRasta]

27 minutes ago, ionel said:

No there has to be a back up ready to go.  It was already staged at airforce base in Indiana when AF-1 got stuck in the mud in Illinois.  You don't leave the POTUS stuck somewhere for an hour much less half a day.  

Its for many of the same reasons they didn't take them off the plane at Willard.  They have a plan and a backup plan or two.  

Well of course there are contingency plans for everything.  But as far as the actual planes used for Air Force 1 on a regular basis, there are two.  On a maintenance/operational rotation. 

[JimmySpeaks]

One being used. The other the…… wait for it……. Is the backup 

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Well of course there are contingency plans for everything.  But as far as the actual planes used for Air Force 1 on a regular basis, there are two.  On a maintenance/operational rotation. 

In 1998, President Bill Clinton's Air Force One, SAM 27000, got stuck in mud at Willard Airport in Champaign, Illinois. The right wheel of the Boeing 707 had "nicked the corner" of the tarmac while taxiing. After initial attempts to free the plane were unsuccessful, a backup Air Force One, SAM 26000, was dispatched to pick up President Clinton. The stranded plane was eventually freed, but not before the airport was temporarily closed and some passengers left the plane. The incident became a news sensation, with media crews, including CNN and Fox News, gathering to cover the event. 

SAM 26000 was parked at Grissom Air Reserve Base in Peru, Indiana to serve as a backup and was quickly dispatched to Willar Airport from there. Clinton continued on his journey to La Crosse, Wisconsin, for an event and then to Washington, D.C.

[WrestlingRasta]

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

In 1998, President Bill Clinton's Air Force One, SAM 27000, got stuck in mud at Willard Airport in Champaign, Illinois. The right wheel of the Boeing 707 had "nicked the corner" of the tarmac while taxiing. After initial attempts to free the plane were unsuccessful, a backup Air Force One, SAM 26000, was dispatched to pick up President Clinton. The stranded plane was eventually freed, but not before the airport was temporarily closed and some passengers left the plane. The incident became a news sensation, with media crews, including CNN and Fox News, gathering to cover the event. 

SAM 26000 was parked at Grissom Air Reserve Base in Peru, Indiana to serve as a backup and was quickly dispatched to Willar Airport from there. Clinton continued on his journey to La Crosse, Wisconsin, for an event and then to Washington, D.C.

Yes that was a back up plane.  But not one of the two jets in service as the regular rotation of AF1 planes.  Their tail numbers were 28000 and 29000.  
 

ANY PLANE the president boards is call signed Air Force One as soon as he boards.  That does not mean any plane is in the regular rotation of the two jets that are regularly used to transport the President.  Yes, there are contingency’s (“to serve as a back up for everything”.) Mullin speaks to ‘the back up’ as if one of the two planes in the presidents regular fleet is a back up.  It is not.  It is one of two planes in a regular rotation. 

-We’ve gotten way off topic of the question I was asking.  

Edited Thursday at 09:53 PM by WrestlingRasta

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Yes that was a back up plane.  But not one of the two jets in service as the regular rotation of AF1 planes.  Their tail numbers were 28000 and 29000.  
 

ANY PLANE the president boards is call signed Air Force One as soon as he boards.  That does not mean any plane is in the regular rotation of the two jets that are regularly used to transport the President.  Yes, there are contingency’s (“to serve as a back up for everything”.) Mullin speaks to ‘the back up’ as if one of the two planes in the presidents regular fleet is a back up.  It is not.  It is one of two planes in a regular rotation. 

-We’ve gotten way off topic of the question I was asking.  

They retired SAM 26000 when it got back to DC, in Air & Space.  Do you think they only had 2 and then reduced to 1? 

[Offthemat]

18 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Mullin speaks to ‘the back up’

Mullin did not speak to the backup/contingency plane per your definition.  He was saying that the second airplane that does share duty as AF1 has airframe issues.  That means it won’t pass inspection for flight.  It started flying in 1987 and was discontinued in 1991.  They don’t make replacement parts for it anymore.  They have to be custom made.  Chances are, the one in the shop will never be used again.  

[WrestlingRasta]

9 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Mullin did not speak to the backup/contingency plane per your definition.  He was saying that the second airplane that does share duty as AF1 has airframe issues.  That means it won’t pass inspection for flight.  It started flying in 1987 and was discontinued in 1991.  They don’t make replacement parts for it anymore.  They have to be custom made.  Chances are, the one in the shop will never be used again.  

You may want to watch the video again.  He didn’t say “the second airplane that does share duty”.  He said “this one” and he said “the back up”.  He also made claims that there is zero information to back it up, and contradicts what the Trump administration themselves said about this process. This plane has been for sale since 2020.  When the Trump admin made it known they’d like a new plane, Qatar said ‘we got one’.  Qatar has been pushing back on the gift to Trump thing since it broke….don’t you think they would have come out and said Biden approached us for the same deal?
 

But….sheep are gonna sheep.  Enjoy!

Edited Thursday at 10:26 PM by WrestlingRasta

[Offthemat]

5 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Enjoy

Sheesh!  You’re dense.

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Sheesh!  You’re dense.

Good talk, I look forward to the next one.  Well, not really.  You’re pretty predictable. But none the less, enjoy. 

Edited Thursday at 10:32 PM by WrestlingRasta

[TylerDurden]

17 hours ago, Paul158 said:

You mentioned all debt isn't bad debt. Just out of curiosity how much of the 37 trillion would consider is good or acceptable debt. 

This is a specious question, but aside from that leveraging debt has been a hallmark of US economic expansion and innovation. What you consider to be good investment, others may not and you'd also have to decide what items are the "extra" over and above revenues. That essentially is what politics is - an big debate about how to allocate resources. That's how you'd decide what is "good" or "bad" debt. 

My thoughts on what the federal government should invest in over and above annual revenues probably differs from yours, but I do not think that the US government should have zero debt. That's a fallacy of composition. Government investment in infrastructure and research, for instance, is hugely beneficial to our economy - eliminating that is cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

On a very superficial level, I'm not in favor of policies that create funding gaps the didn't previously exist for things that don't move the economic needle for average folks. If your aim is to reduce revenue, that's fine but offering plans that do not have a corresponding reduction in spending is bad policy for deficit and debt management. The reverse is also true.

Edited Friday at 12:48 PM by TylerDurden

[Scouts Honor]

being accused of thickness by someone thick is rather thick

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, TylerDurden said:

 

My thoughts on what the federal government should invest in over and above annual revenues probably differs from yours, but I do not think that the US government should have zero debt. That's a fallacy of composition. Government investment in infrastructure and research, for instance, is hugely beneficial to our economy - eliminating that is cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

 

i agree. our thoughts differ.

expenditures over and above intake should 

= 

0

[red viking]

On 5/14/2025 at 3:04 PM, mspart said:

To be fair, you have been in favor of cutting military spending since forever.   But to be fair the other direction, you have also been in favor of raising taxes to cut the deficit as your go to since forever. 

How about cuts to:

Treasury

Agriculture

EPA

Military

Interior

Commerce

Education

State

Justice

Labor

HHS

HUD

Transportation

Energy

Veteran's Affairs

Homeland Security.  

Each cabinet post could lose 10% and not be in any worse shape.   Most could lose 20% and cover most of their costs.  Are you willing to do this?   If not, you are not serious about getting this under control.   There may be a need for tax increases but you always cut spending first. 

mspart

Moodys just downgraded u.s. credit rating due to GOPs proposed out of control deficit. 

Edited Friday at 08:59 PM by red viking

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Scouts Honor]

5 hours ago, red viking said:

Moodys just downgraded u.s. credit rating due to GOPs proposed out of control deficit. 

yes 100 days did that.

not the last 4 years 

[red viking]

20 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

yes 100 days did that.

not the last 4 years 

Existing debt is part of it but GOPs most reckless budget proposal EVER is icing on the cake. 

[JimmySpeaks]

14 minutes ago, red viking said:

Existing debt is part of it but GOPs most reckless budget proposal EVER is icing on the cake. 

Existing debt is by far the biggest part of it 

[red viking]

10 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Existing debt is by far the biggest part of it 

Most iof that was caused by the wingers too

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

Most iof that was caused by the wingers too

So you agree that existing debt is the biggest part.  Nice. 

Edited 21 hours ago by JimmySpeaks