$4T Debt Limit Increase Proposal

[TylerDurden]

https://thehill.com/business/budget/5296087-house-gop-debt-limit-increase/amp/

"House Republicans are moving forward with plans to raise the nation’s debt ceiling by $4 trillion as part of a larger plan to advance President Trump’s tax agenda."

 

It sure seems like this is another example of Republicans running up the national deficit, despite claims that they're the party of fiscal responsibility. 

https://amarkfoundation.org/reports/u-s-presidents-and-the-federal-deficit/

[Bigbrog]

42 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

https://thehill.com/business/budget/5296087-house-gop-debt-limit-increase/amp/

"House Republicans are moving forward with plans to raise the nation’s debt ceiling by $4 trillion as part of a larger plan to advance President Trump’s tax agenda."

 

It sure seems like this is another example of Politicians running up the national deficit, despite claims that their side is the party of fiscal responsibility. 

https://amarkfoundation.org/reports/u-s-presidents-and-the-federal-deficit/

Here...fixed it for you

[TylerDurden]

5 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Here...fixed it for you

Please read the information in the second link. 

[Bigbrog]

16 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

Please read the information in the second link. 

Doesn't change anything...for one, the deficit is a lagging indicator that takes into account many factors that happened in the past.  Both sides have contributed to it...to me it was a problem that was caused many many years ago, not sure by a D or an R but doesn't matter at this point, that politicians have been chasing, putting off and/or adding on to it year after year.  I personally hate that we raise the debt ceiling, but it is naive to think it has nothing to do with past decisions upon past decisions based on past decisions, and it's extremely stupid to scream and stomp your feet when the current president comes in and has to raise it because of previous administrations decisions (both D and R's).

[TylerDurden]

5 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Doesn't change anything...for one, the deficit is a lagging indicator that takes into account many factors that happened in the past.  Both sides have contributed to it...to me it was a problem that was caused many many years ago, not sure by a D or an R but doesn't matter at this point, that politicians have been chasing, putting off and/or adding on to it year after year.  I personally hate that we raise the debt ceiling, but it is naive to think it has nothing to do with past decisions upon past decisions based on past decisions, and it's extremely stupid to scream and stomp your feet when the current president comes in and has to raise it because of previous administrations decisions (both D and R's).

Interesting that overwhelming evidence of one party driving up the deficit and the other reducing it doesn't change anything for you.

You can certainly and rightly claim that both sides contribute to the deficit to some extent, depending on the specific legislation, but it's very clear that the Democratic presidential administrations have done a vastly superior job of managing the federal balance sheet.  The graph shows it in very simple terms and there is more detail below the graph in various charts. 

I'd also point out the the lag you're seemingly basing the entire crux of your argument on in order to lump both sides into this, isn't some drawn out thing that was caused many years ago. That is a more appropriate argument for the total national debt, but not the budget deficit. We can certainly include that in the discussion, but the same trends exist on that front. 

[Offthemat]

The message changes a bit when you attribute the majority of the Congress to the ups and downs.  

[mspart]

This is correct at least in part.   Clinton was on a path to increase the deficit.   1994, was the year of the Gingrich contract with America, the Ds got shellacked and R's took over and essentially forced Clinton to be more fiscally responsible.   Seeing the tea leaves, he moved in that direction anyway.  

Obama had a similar thing when deficits went down.  

It is correct the deficits went up under R admins but a look at the Congresses that provided the spending bills gives a story as well. 

mspart

[mspart]

AI Overview

Learn more

Since World War II, Democrats in Congress have been responsible for a larger share of the gross federal debt than Republicans, with Democrats accounting for about 74% and Republicans about 26%, according to the Joint Economic Committee (JEC). When considering debt held by the public, Democrats in Congress have incurred 90.3% while Republicans are responsible for 9.7%, according to the JEC. This includes debt held in intra-governmental accounts, which is primarily owed to Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds.

 

Search term:  US deficits by who controlled congress

 

That was easy.  Offthemat was correct.

 

mspart

[Offthemat]

Republican Presidents since at least Nixon have sought the line item veto to prevent this.  They’ve tried shutting the gov’t down.  

[mspart]

AI Overview

Learn more

The Line Item Veto Act of 1996 allowed the President to cancel specific spending items or tax benefits within a bill, while still signing the rest of the bill into law. This act was later deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

 

So there is no line item veto.  Which is unfortunate I think. 

 

mspart

[Offthemat]

41 minutes ago, mspart said:

Which is unfortunate I think

I agree with you on that and I believe the court got this wrong.  The President should have more of a role in the budget if they’re going to make him sign it.  If it’s a line item they want bad enough, they can vote to override his veto.  This way it would only delay parts of the budget instead of him having to veto the entire budget or shut down the gov’t to make adjustments.